Straightening up a couple of Model A's (Advice needed)

[Jyromefedx]

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Hello and good day all.
This is my first post to these forums so please be gentle.

Before the snow fell I made a purchase of my dream car, in this case cars.
A Model A Sedan, I however did not quite realize what I was biting off with the fact that the Sedan versions have most of the main structure fastened with wood, and in my case, the remnant ghost of wood. I am looking to bring my car back to life as I have been amassing parts for it but I need to start with the structure.

I am a mechanic by trade but know very little on body work, especially structural. So I have come to the experts.

A few questions:

Is there any resources that would show me in detail the internal dimensions of the sedan when sitting properly?

Has anyone resources for a documented account of restoring the structure of a Sedan?

Is this indeed a 1930 Murray Sedan?

Thank you kindly.

[ronn]

just a suggestion-sell them both off at a slight profit and start a little higher up the chain.


so much work here. better suited for a rodder.

[nkaminar]

Hi Jyrome,

Welcome to the Barn and to the Model A hobby. What Ron was trying to say is that it takes a lot of time and money to restore one of these cars. The people who restore them do so because they love the work and are proud of the results. But it is a lot faster and cheaper to just buy one that has most of the work done.

If you like doing the work then proceed. The usual vendors sell wood kits. I use Snyder's (https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/). Also look there for books on restoring these cars. There is a judging guide that has a lot of information but I don't know how to obtain it. Perhaps another Barn member can jump in.

[old31]

Jyro, welcome to the forum.

Being a mechanic is great that will help.

But, if you cant do body work, paint, wood, and upholstery you might be in for a bad day.

If you have real deep pockets, a lot of time on your hands, are looking for a challenge then go ahead with the project. Otherwise do as Ronn has suggested.

[Canton_Model_A's]

I also agree with Ronn. Those 2 would take a ton of work and a lot of time. Sell both for a profit, and start a little higher on the food chain.

And welcome to the Barn. No question is too dumb to ask, we are here to help.

Dave

[mngrant]

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Myron,

Yes, welcome. My suggestion would be view MAFCA.com. There is publications available and join a chapter. Model A people, a great community.

[Y-Blockhead]

Jyrome, there is a lot of wood in the fordors, a lot of time and money to replace it. As others sugessted, maybe think about starting with a better candidate for restoring.

This picture doesn't even show the wood for the four doors.

Yes, the one in the front appears to be a 1930 Murray fordor. I can't see enough of the other to tell for sure.

[oldspert]

Maybe the Les Andrews book Volumn II would be a help. Covers some of the wood installation on two doors but might help with the four door too.

[Ordsgt]

I am completing my 1930 Tudor. It is on the road and driven often. I am, like you, mechanically inclined. The new top wood for my Tudor was about $900 and needed final fitting. The upholstery kit now goes for $4000 and a 1 year back log. You can find running A's for around $8000. I am not trying to discourage you but both those cars are monumental projects.

[1930artdeco]

Yep, I have to agree with the others. If both cars have curved window tops then they are Murry's. If one has square windows then it is a Briggs and nothing will interchange after the A pillar. But you are in for one hell of a project if you keep them-I am in the same boat with my other car.

Mike

[redmodelt]

Unless you have the paper work/title that you can put in your name and do so, I would not suggest dropping any money/time it them above what you already paid.
See it often enough, people drop a butt load of cash into restoring a car, then when they can't get title to it, sell with bill of sale.
Sure, there are ways, but in my OP, that should be done before starting, not after.

[Bob C]

I added up the wood for one of the Fordors from Snyder's and it came out to $8800 without shipping.

[Chuck Dempsey]

Welcome to the 'Barn. Good Luck!

[rotorwrench]

The 155C Town Sedan was an elegant model for 1930 through mid 1931 but they did have a lot of wood structure. A person with a well stocked wood shop and a fair amount of ash wood in inventory would take a while to fabricate all the pieces even if they had the patterns. Ford Wood and other suppliers have what I refer to as oversize patterns so that a fit can be better guaranteed but it required some careful fitting (removal of the slight excess) to get all the structure to fit the sheet metal back over it. You can take wood off a piece but it's not so easy to add it back.

A friend of mine from my early days growing up in Kansas, helped his Dad build up an old family owned since new Model A Fordor Sedan. I donated some very nice headlights that had been in our barn to the project. His Dad had been a body man for a while after the war and he was also an excellent carpenter that built two of the family homes. He had to make the wood to fit the sheet metal and that was all they had to work with. By trial and error, they managed to get everything back together and fitting as good as it was when it left the Murray body plant. This was it the time when we had no internet nor cell phones. It was hard to get everything back in the 60s & 70s but they got it done in the space of about 2-years. They were farming by this time and had the winters to give them more time to work. The car is beautiful and quite an accomplishment. They later restored several other body types after they got the bug.

Anyone with good skill sets and a lot of time can do it but it will be quite a challenge. I learned body work and upholstery work with publications and repetition. I was an aircraft mechanic by trade for 40+ years so that helped. I've tried a lot of things that most people have never though of doing and have been relatively successful. I figure if I can do it then anybody can.

Finding one of the model A body designs that have less wood is sometimes a better choice for the beginner. Not being able to drive the thing will sometimes make a person lose interest and there is will set.

[w.michael]

The Fordors are very desirable and very elegant cars; but one in poor condition is a major project to undertake. If you restore one, you will have a great car and an accomplishment to be proud of. If you have the patience and the temperament and the work space, go for it! I think the complete wood system is available from Classic Wood in Greensboro, NC. It’s not cheap. But unless you are a master woodworker, that’s the only way to go. Good luck!

W. Michael

[Model "A" Fords]

Hello Jyrome.

Nice to welcome another Model "A" man!

I would agree the front car is a 1930 Standard Fordoor Murray. There aren't signs of any holes for cowl lights that could indicate a Town Sedan. If the dash panel is the clover leaf shape it would be 1930 through June. July onwards would have the wide oval shape dash.

There aren't very many Standard Sedans around as fewer were made and over time many were modified into Town Sedans. They have a lot of wood as Y- Blockhead shows. Even without the doors, there is actually more wood that isn't shown but you get the idea.

Depending whether you want a driver or fine points car, the cost to restore differs considerably. For my 1930 Standard Sedan I chose to restore it as a driver while learning what I needed for fine points. This way I could enjoy and drive it before the next step.

At first everyone suggested just buying a restored car as they are always less expensive than restoring. It was good advice, except this was the first car I ever bought. This meant alot to me and I've had it since 1967 at the age of 13. It was also a local Canadian car.

After years of enjoyment, it was in a severe collision on a one way street with a car going the wrong way. I didn't want the expense to put it back as just a driver so went for a points car a little earlier than expected. It is still in restoration mode.

Had this specific car not meant so much to me, buying a driver would have been my choice. Definitely, way less expensive than restoring a car to driver statice! Having a driver while meeting like minded Model "A" people has benefits. In a short time you're surrounded with knowledgeable Model "A" people that would love to support you in any project.

If you can afford a roadworthy car and keep the two Sedans, I would. As you learn more about them you might enjoy restoring while not feeling rushed to get a car on the road.

It would be great if you could post more photos of the two cars. These really peek my interest! Thank you for sharing.

Have fun whatever your decision!

[updraught]

I'd start by going to see the new film "The Boys in the Boat"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3XoBhL_xv8

You've certainly got that "Grapes of Wrath" look going on there in spades.

https://www.typelish.com/b/a-look-at...f-wrath-104410

[oldspert]

My second Model A was a 1929 Town Sedan. Murray body. Was in pretty good shape when I bought it. Was a college student and did not have enough time to finish it but it was still very restorable. This was in 1965.

[ModelA29]

Sit back and take stock on what you'll need to hire out. Yes you're a mechanic but you'll still need machine work on the engine for babbitt or insert bearings. That plus the other parts and a trans/rear end build. Brakes, tires, etc.

Like was mentioned $4,000 for interior. A guy at our last A meeting just paid $12,000 for body and paint (wood was OK). Materials are a fortune today for a good paint job.

Once you add it all up you'll see buying one already done will save you money. If you've got room keep one to tinker with.

MAFCA and MARC both sell the same Judging Standards book.

[gdmn852]

Hello, granted you will have more in it than it’s probably worth, but that can be said for many hobbies. I am restoring a 31 roadster, and know I have more in it than it is worth, along with my 49 Buick and also a 71 MGB . But to me it’s not about cash value ,rather it’s about history. Also when you are done, you will have the pride of knowing the car inside and out. If you have the time to restore it , being able to save it from the scrap yard.