Patch Panels - Recommendations on quality

[Usafexplorer]

Finally pulled the cab on the old '31, rear lower is rusted through and require a patch panel and likely a seat frame riser assembly . I have a couple catalogs from MAC's / Mike's and viewed a couple options on various sites. Is there one better than another or are all of these sources from overseas? I'm not building a show vehicle but would like the best quality that I can afford as I'm not in a position to fabricate my own. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Joe K]

In general my experience with "patch panels" is they rust. Something about the steel they're made from.

Lead-alloy is renowned for its "machinability" and I suppose for its "ductility" - a good metal to make formed panels from. But its also known as a steel prone to oxidation. Something about the "interrupted grain boundaries" of the ferrous structure. And it is very likely that most patch panels being worked up from sheet are today done in this metal.

In general I do a patch panel after first doing an electrolytic "dip" on the metal, and then phosphate dip to get a head start on a protective coating.

Electrolytic de-rusting does a WONDERFUL job of "reforming" red-rust (i.e. turns it into "black rust") but leaves a surface which when not protected is the IDEAL chemical surface to re-form red rust. The phosphate slows this down sensibly.

A steam pump casting which I electrolytic prepared for painting by this method was nearly two years in my shop before I finally said "I gotta get this painted." A dull grey "matte" finish on that cast iron now green high temp enamel.

And electrolytic preparation/phosphating doesn't seem to get in the way of the MIG.

Although one will do well to choose a dry day to weld and then grind-protect.

Joe K

[wrndln]

I wouldn't buy any patch panel made by Howell's in Texas. They are poorly made. I have bought a couple of them and was sorry I did. If I need a repro patch panel, which I seldom do, as I use original metal and make my own. I ask the vendor who made the panel and I don't buy if it is made by Howell's.
Rusty Nelson

[gdmn852]

Hello, on the roadster, I bought the whole cowl panel, removed the bondo patch filled original by drilling out the spot welds in door jam and cowl area , the replacement seems to fit ok , but is expensive and labor extensive , but doable.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I am unsure of what the honest expectations really are in this. There are 'Sheetmetal Repair or Replacement Panels', -and there are "Patch Panels".

Correct me if I am wrong, but the term 'Patch' tends to imply it is a method to make something serviceable again for a short period of time until proper repair methods can be performed. Generally speaking, the word Patch and the word Repair are not really synonymous. Rusty is correct in that Howell's patch panels do not even remotely mimic a quality fitting original panel, ...however if we are being truthful with ourselves, we are paying for a 'patch' and not quality. Quality pieces come with a price.

Joe, although I have always used AK (-or DQ) sheetmetal because of it being more forgiving to deep-forming, I have not noticed any susceptibility to premature rusting with that metal. Most of the 'patch panel' manufacturing is performed stateside, and one such company even offers complete bodies.
Interesting comments on your experiences nonetheless.

[ModelA29]

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There are probably 100s of sellers but I wager only 5 makers. Finding out who stamped a particular part may be hard to find out since sellers will buy from anybody to keep their stock up. Try one of the Model A parts sellers that offers used parts. They may be willing to cut the area you need out of a badly crashed/rusted body. I suspect however yours is a common rust area and no originals would be available. There are many talented metal workers who could make you a piece out of the same gauge metal. Yes it may have different rust properties but that's not a big deal since most of these cars are no longer driven on icy salt covered roads or left out in the rain for years on end. The downside is it will probably be $100-200 and hour for the man and his equipment.

[cars2cool]

Check out Brookville Roadster in Brookville Ohio, I bought my rear of cab and rear cab corners, seat riser and complete box from them a few years back. Excellent quality and service. All parts were made by them in the USA.

[Oldbluoval]

I think the terms replacement and patch are synonymous in most hobbyists thinking…they want the rust gone and the exterior to look Henry. Almost no replacement panels are available to do such. Stipe 30-31 cowl panels are close. A lot has to do with the installer too.
A lot of Brookville sheet metal can be tweaked and do a superior job. …not
perfect but often “good nuff”. Other quality panel Mfg went out of business…a trend these days. As stated, run away from products made by aforementioned Mfg.
I learned years ago to make my own. Not beholden to supply chain and can tweak as needed.

[gdmn852]

Hello again, as mentioned in my previous post I replaced the complete cowl panel, as I purchased it from Snyders, don’t know the manufacture, assuming it was Brookville, the cowl replacement panel fit well but not perfect, this car took a hard hit on passenger side even the door post was twisted. I also replaced the quarter panel , it had many draw marks and the belt and reveals need a lot of rework. I would recommend keeping the original quarter panel if possible. Mine were filled with bondo and braze repaired making it hard to weld .

[Oldbluoval]

Bondo and brazing should be listed as cuss words! At least in body work. Small body filler ok but some buy it in 55 gal drums!!
Been there, done that. On having to follow same as 852

[Tinbasher]

Any Aftermarket Body Panel is just a start. There close but not correct. They all need work to get the right fit and finish. Even "New Car" Aftermarket parts are the same. I call them "Almost Fit" Parts.
In 55 years of doing Body work I've found very few correct panels. If you can make it yourself your further ahead. The Best I've found are Brookville panels. but they need work as well. The biggest mistake I've found is on Cowl and 1/4 front panel, is the bead at the bottom is totally the wrong shape. I keep orginal pieces as samples. My Thoughts.

[rotorwrench]

The only thing I can add is the caveat about the repair or replacement panels being the correct thickness or at least being close. Brookville seems to be closer on this that any others but they limit themselves to stuff that is intended to fit roadsters and pickups in the model A catagory so they only make a small percentage of model A body parts.

A person should try to repair as much as they can but not all DIY guys learn the art of metal forming. Howell's evidently has bucks and forms to hand fabricate some items but I think I could do a better job at forming my own. They don't seem to care whether they make a good product or not and the only way to buy from them is if they offer an item on flea-pay.

I use AKDQ steel as well but it's not always easy to find a good source for the stuff in the gauges needed. With hand forming, a person can literally build a whole car if they have the skill set but the time it takes for such an endeavor would be considered to be time and therefore cost prohibitive. For the average DIY restorer, tweeking the best available panels makes more sense as long as they are at least made good quality steel that can be easily welded or "tweeked".