1954 239 distributer

[mfirth]

New here, so ..... friend has a 1954 239 car engine and can't get the dizzy to move or out of the engine. Sugestions please. THANKS in advance !!!!!!

[rotorwrench]

A person may have to apply heat to the engine block area where the unit lives. Sounds like it's been in there a while and having it at the rear of the engine doesn't help much either. Use a good quality penetrating oil on the area as well. WD-40 is not a good penetrant. Use CRC, PB Blaster, or some other quality penetrant. If it will turn then it will come out. Aluminum on cast iron is not always a good combination. Disregard if it's cast iron in cast iron. Carefully tap it on each side with a soft face type hammer if you can. A wood block might be better. It will come loose eventually.

[mfirth]

Thanks rotorwrench. He used wd-40 so..... He does have "heat" available. Will passs it on.
This isn't a problem on a flatty. Thank goodness.

[Daves55Sedan]

The '54/55/56 Ford Y-block dizzy housings are identical and all are made of aluminum. Some people make the mistake of cleaning out the bore in the cast iron engine block and putting the dizzy back in without coating that bore with grease or oil. If the surfaces are dry, there can be corrosion due to the interaction between dissimilar metals.
After you get the dizzy out, I recommend stuffing a clean rag down there and cleaning nay rust out of that cast iron bore, then pull rag out and lubricate that bore before putting dizzy back in again.
Unfortunately, there's not much room back there to get two wedges and a hammer, but maybe you can work back and forth as near to 180 degrees as you can get. Try using a stubby screwdriver with the flat blade ground down so it can fit between the dizzy and block. Don't get crazy with it. It might take several attempts working from side to side to get it to budge.

[mfirth]

Thanks Dave!! I'll pass it on.

[KULTULZ]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Don't get too rough with it as if it breaks you may have trouble finding a replacement (unique to EBU 239).

It may have to soak for days before it loosens.

[51504bat]

50/50 mix of Acetone and ATF. Time is your friend. Soak it and let it sit. Soak it some more and gently tap it now and again. Good luck.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

50/50 mix of Acetone and ATF. Time is your friend. Soak it and let it sit. Soak it some more and gently tap it now and again. Good luck.

!!! DARN IT ALL !!!

Why can't I remember that ...

[JimNNN]

Last year I tried for a few months to get the distributor loose from the engine ('54 Y-block 239.) It never came loose. I tried many different brands of penetrating oil, but none worked in my situation. I decided to not keep tapping and soaking the distributor with penetrant because I was worried I might damage something. I wanted to get the distr. loose because the timing is retarded about 3 degrees from factory spec.

If you should encounter the same degree of difficulty that I have, there have been some threads on this forum that have explored tools that loosen the distributor by putting upward pressure on the distributor base. (Of course, make sure the hold-down apparatus has been loosened.) Use the search function and you may find those threads.

The problem is that some of the tools can only be used when the engine is out of the car. I think that's why I didn't go that route. I may try the acetone and ATF procedure. Good luck.

[rotorwrench]

I'd warm it up good with a good quality heat gun on the area of the block around the distributor then squirt penetrant on. If a person needs better access then purchase some new intake manifold gaskets and remove it. That may help. Fabricate a turning tool from thick aluminum plate that will fit over the edges of the distributor body. I don't know if a strap wrench would do any good. They wouldn't apply as much torque as a turning tool might. The vacuum can would likely have to be removed as well.

Those old Y blocks have narrow distributor body contact centering journals but there are three of them and two are down inside the block a ways. This makes it difficult to affect all three of the stuck areas with heat. Aluminum heats up well but cast iron takes a while. I don't know if access to the area down in the lifter galley will allow for more heating or not. A person might even have to remove the oil pump for some access but I don't know how much a person would get down there. You sure want to try and save that one year only distributor drive gear and shaft if you can. The early Dearborn 239 engines had a different cam than the Cleveland made engines. There are other subtle differences.

Those old style slot in shaft type pump drives like to stick too and they can near fuse themselves if the engine was subject to a lot condensation in it's earlier years. I've read threads where other folks have had the same problems. This is one.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/4...-come-out.html

[Late model]

Originally Posted by JimNNN

Last year I tried for a few months to get the distributor loose from the engine ('54 Y-block 239.) It never came loose. I tried many different brands of penetrating oil, but none worked in my situation. I decided to not keep tapping and soaking the distributor with penetrant because I was worried I might damage something. I wanted to get the distr. loose because the timing is retarded about 3 degrees from factory spec.

If you should encounter the same degree of difficulty that I have, there have been some threads on this forum that have explored tools that loosen the distributor by putting upward pressure on the distributor base. (Of course, make sure the hold-down apparatus has been loosened.) Use the search function and you may find those threads.

The problem is that some of the tools can only be used when the engine is out of the car. I think that's why I didn't go that route. I may try the acetone and ATF procedure. Good luck.

Here is a link to the removal tool. Last posts on page 2.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=299011&page=2

[mfirth]

Again, thanks to all. The owner is letting it set & then trying all of the above suggestions. Will let you know how it turns out. Turns out? Pun intended ....

[JimNNN]

Thanks Rotorwrench and Late model for the advice and perspectives. I just bought a heat gun recently, so that's where I'll start.

With help and advice from people at Y Blocksforever forum, I bought a rebuilt replacement distributor that I found on eBay last year in case things don't fare well during my attempts to loosen the original unit. The replacement has the same part number on it as my current/original distributor. NEVERTHELESS, my inclination is to keep the original in operation if possible, for the rarity and uniqueness and mysterious specification reasons you mentioned.

BTW, what are the long term negative consequences of running an engine at 3 degrees retarded timing? My engine timing is stuck at TDC where the specs say it should be 3 degrees BTDC.

[KULTULZ]

BTW, what are the long term negative consequences of running an engine at 3 degrees retarded timing? My engine timing is stuck at TDC where the specs say it should be 3 degrees BTDC.

Other than lackluster performance and fuel usage, the LOAD-O-MATIC with retarded timing may lead to engine overheating.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by JimNNN

...
BTW, what are the long term negative consequences of running an engine at 3 degrees retarded timing? My engine timing is stuck at TDC where the specs say it should be 3 degrees BTDC.

Assuming the distributor was serviced before being bolted down and the points & timing may have been set correctly at that time... has the Dwell spec of the points been checked recently?

If the points are now worn past that initial adjustment it will cause the timing to be out of spec also.
There is a fair possibility that re-setting the dwell of the points correctly will get the timing closer to where it should be.

Also check that 5 inches of vacuum applied to the canister on the distributor will actually twist the internals of the distributor. If the points mounting plate is stuck the timing cannot advance at all.

https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/crac...aust-manifold/

.

[JimNNN]

Thanks KULTULZ and dmsfrr. I'm sure I set dwell when I replaced the points about 1000 miles ago. I'll check it again.


The funny thing about all of this is that the '54 shop manual has to be one of the few in history that actually recommends removing the distributor on the Y-block merely to replace the points! THEN they design a distributor that actually welds itself in place through dissimilar metal issues!!

[edit: But now that I've said that, I'm wondering...could removing the distributor every 6k -10k miles for points replacement actually have PREVENTED the dissimilar metals from fusing together? So maybe there was a method in their madness?]


Obviously, I didn't pull the distributor when replacing the points. Once I did the job I saw there might be another reason they recommended doing that. Very hard to access the distributor points when the heater blower and duct work are in the way. I was redoing the heater at the time, so I had all that stuff pulled off.

[KULTULZ]

The funny thing about all of this is that the '54 shop manual has to be one of the few in history that actually recommends removing the distributor on the Y-block merely to replace the points!

Actually, that was the recommended procedure for all LOAD-O-MATIC DIST as the advance feature could be confirmed/adjusted with an included MANOMETER on that period DIST MACHINE.
_________________________
ANOTHER KULTULZ EDIT -

[edit: But now that I've said that, I'm wondering...could removing the distributor every 6k -10k miles for points replacement actually have PREVENTED the dissimilar metals from fusing together? So maybe there was a method in their madness?]

After removal ... ... , be sure to clean the DIST BOSS good and clean the DIST HSG where it rides on the boss.

PERMATEX ANTI-SEIZE (used sparingly) is your friend here.
_________________________________________________

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by JimNNN

...
Obviously, I didn't pull the distributor when replacing the points, but once I did the job it became apparent why they recommended doing that. Very hard to access the distributor points when the heater blower and duct work are in the way. I was redoing the heater at the time, so I had all that stuff pulled off.

If you use a large-ish towel or other piece of cloth to cover all around the distributor while working on it, it can help catch small screws & other parts that may try to escape. Much easier than trying to fish them out from under the intake manifold or retrieve them from the floor under the car.

[KULTULZ]

- VERY IMPORTANT EXCERPT FROM ABOVE REFERRING URL -

Probably the most over looked item on 1955 & 1956 Thunderbirds is the vacuum advance mechanism. It is the only control that advances the timing. When it fails, the engine runs at the setting of the distributor, which is 3 to 6 degrees B.T.D.C.

When the vacuum advance mechanism is working properly, as the engine rpm increases the distributor timing also increases. If the timing does not increase the increased fuel does not properly burn during the compression stroke and finishes burning inside the exhaust manifold resulting in a loss of power and excessive heat inside the exhaust manifold.

Very nicely said -

[JimNNN]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Actually, that was the recommended procedure for all LOAD-O-MATIC DIST as the advance feature could be confirmed/adjusted with an included MANOMETER on that period DIST MACHINE.

Okay, that explains a lot. I think I may have edited my previous post after you responded, so I'll present this theory here to see what you think: Could removing the distributor every time the points were changed also help prevent the dissimilar metals from fusing together?

[rotorwrench]

This was already mentioned but a good dose of anti-seize on the centering journals should do the trick. I use the nickel based stuff but any anti-seize is better than none.

[KULTULZ]

Could removing the distributor every time the points were changed also help prevent the dissimilar metals from fusing together?

Well yes, if the DIST was serviced properly in it's SERVICE HISTORY.

But 1954 is how far back? Very few understand the LOAD-O-MATIC operation and most likely the DIST has not been out since when?

There has to be someone offering this service even if you had to send it off. If the DIST is serviced correctly and if it didn't work properly when returned and installed, the vacuum supply valve on the CARB would then be suspect.

[mfirth]

Thanks for all the info, new question. Anyone running Pertronix in a 239 Y blockwith a generator ? Some of my fellow flathead friends have had problems they say caused by the generator. Pertronix happier with an alternator?? Thanks in advance.!!!!

[KULTULZ]

It would be best to ask @ PERTRONIX TECH.

!!! IMO !!!

The charging system would have to be in perfect condition with a strong reserve BATT (w/ the GEN/VR being able to maintain it).

The MODULE should be powered via a fused relay off BATT.

[JimNNN]

My T-Bird's FE engine came from the previous owner with a Pertronix ignition system installed. When working on my car's ignition, the information I found indicated that the Pertronix system is very coil specific. Coil has to be the correct ohms, and can cause failures if it isn't. Some new coils at stores may not have that info readily available but you can measure it with a multimeter. Also, it should have the correct ballast resistor configuration. I'm not saying what those specifics are because you should probably talk to Pertronix as KULTULZ said.

[paul2748]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I ran a Pertronix II with their coil and a generator. No problems with it.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by mfirth

Thanks for all the info, new question. Anyone running Pertronix in a 239 Y blockwith a generator ? Some of my fellow flathead friends have had problems they say caused by the generator. Pertronix happier with an alternator?? Thanks in advance.!!!!

Is the car still 6 volt positive ground, or was it converted to 12 volt negative ground?
The electronic modules may be a little less tolerant of a slight voltage drop when running at 6v as compared to 12v. With less voltage to begin with a 1 or 2 volt drop makes more of a difference.
.