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Old 04-25-2018, 09:35 AM   #1
FRANK PKNY
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Default overdrive question

I just purchased a 1965 F100 three speed with overdrive. Seems someone hacked up the overdrive wiring. I'm putting it back together correctly. Having never worked on an overdrive unit before , I've been studying the wiring and operation of the unit . so far I have managed to only find a wiring diagram for a 1967 overdrive unit. Wondering if anyone knows if it's the same as the 65? Also I would like to find out about the function of what the diagram calls the governor? By the way the circuit goes it looks like it may short out the distributor via the white wire from the governor ! I'm not sure about this function. If anyone has some insight about this it would be helpful. Thanks in advance. FRANKPKNY
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Old 04-25-2018, 09:54 AM   #2
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Default Re: overdrive question

Borg warner overdrive troubleshooting I just found this thread it seems to cover the subject very well. Any additional input would still be welcome. Thanks Frank
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:03 AM   #3
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Default Re: overdrive question

Wiring should be the same both years. The governor switch closes at about 28 MPH which turns on the relay by completing the ground circuit. This energizes the solenoid so the overdrive will engage when you let up on the gas pedal. The kickdown switch is what shorts (momentarily) the coil to enable kickdown (or 'passing gear').
Overdrive operation is such that it cannot shift when under power. So, to engage O/D, you release the accelerator and then the solenoid can shift into O/D. When you floor the pedal to get kickdown, the kickdown switch shuts off current to the solenoid and its internal spring retracts its plunger to go back to direct drive. However, the spring cannot retract the plunger (or pawl) while under power. So the kickdown switch also shorts out the ignition coil through the solenoid. As soon as the solenoid releases, it opens that momentary ground so the engine fires again. It happens very quickly.
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Old 04-25-2018, 12:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: overdrive question

I'm beginning to understand now. Thanks Any idea on how to adjust the kick down switch on the throttle pedal? The person who set this up had all the wires incorrectly placed, I'm rewiring from ground zero . At present the kick down switch is not touching the push section of the throttle when pressed to the floor, I'm assuming the shaft on the end of the switch is adjustable by screwing it in or out, I just need to know at what point it needs to engauge the switch. Thanks again.
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Old 04-25-2018, 12:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: overdrive question

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Originally Posted by FRANK PKNY View Post
I'm beginning to understand now. Thanks Any idea on how to adjust the kick down switch on the throttle pedal? The person who set this up had all the wires incorrectly placed, I'm rewiring from ground zero . At present the kick down switch is not touching the push section of the throttle when pressed to the floor, I'm assuming the shaft on the end of the switch is adjustable by screwing it in or out, I just need to know at what point it needs to engauge the switch. Thanks again.
You want to have the carb wide open with the gas pedal just touching the kickdown switch plunger, so that a little extra nudge with your foot pushes in the plunger.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: overdrive question

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Great thanks got it now! I'm a T & A man 1965 is way to new for this old guy!
OH By the Way!

T& A can have more than one meaning!! LOL
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: overdrive question

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Great thanks got it now! I'm a T & A man 1965 is way to new for this old guy. LOL
Are you familiar with the function of the lockout cable?
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: overdrive question

I'm afraid to admit this but NO! I thought it locked the overdrive in.
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: overdrive question

I have a update for you. I have repaired the entire electrical part of the overdrive. It is working as it should. all tests show the solenoid works perfectly when the governor grounds the relay kicks in and the solenoid engages. Job well don! OHHH not so fast. I'm thinking the interior rings of the OD are not positioned properly. When starting in first gear the truck is starting off already in OD mode even in first gear it stays in od till over 28 mph when the governor grounds the relay the power transfers to the solenoid and it kicks in properly. However this action pulls the OD unit out of OD and into standard mode. Just the opposite of what should happen? Any ideas? I'm thinking that during a previous repair job the transmission was moved out of position for the cogs to properly engage? Does this sound possible?
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: overdrive question

Do you have an original relay on the firewall? Some relays are "normally open" so they don't close without the presence of an actuating circuit. Others are "normally closed" so they are closed until the actuating circuit is energized. I don't see how your solenoid is energized without the relay being grounded by the governor.

I would disconnect the governor wire from the relay and see if it releases the solenoid below 28 mph.
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: overdrive question

This old link from the Studebaker Club is a copy of the original instructions. http://www.studebakerclubs.com/North.../Overdrive.pdf

Page 7 has a basic wiring diagram that can be used for all of the Borg Warner systems. The only difference from 1950/E51 is the delete of the rail lockout switch. It was considered redundant so its use was discontinued for most of the 1951 model year and on for Ford products. All the other components were used up till Ford quit offering the T85N/R11 transmissions.

Solenoid wiring should have a relatively large gauge wire even with 12-volt. The control wires can likely be 18 gauge but the power from the battery to the relay and the relay to the solenoid should be around 14 gauge. It take a lot of amps to engage the shift solenoid.

I always warn folks new to the Borg Warner overdrive to be careful when parking on hills. Either lock the OD out manually with the cable or shift the transmission into reverse to make sure it is locked out so it won't try to roll. There have been a lot of runaway vehicles with these type transmissions over the years.

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Old 06-06-2018, 10:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: overdrive question

I have tested the relay and governor they are correctly wired and the governor grounds out at 30 MPH as it should. Even with the fuse out and no power in the circuit the OD is in free wheels even in first gear. When I connect the relay to power the overdrive is in even in first gear when I reach third gear and the solenoid kicks in at 30MPH it takes the unit into non OD mode? It seems to me that the problem may be internal.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: overdrive question

With the fuse out and/or no power in the circuit, the drivetrain will freewheel unless the manual cable is pulled out (OD locked out). Read the link that Rotorwrench posted carefully, and you will figure it out, once you understand how the unit operates, it will be simple to troubleshoot. Remember the 2 leads going into the solenoid are one, for energizing and the second to hold it in. Maybe you mixed them up?
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: overdrive question

The relay points can stick if they've gone bad and hold it in overdrive. If you try to push the car backwards it won't go. The troubleshooting instructions in that link will answer most questions. I'm not sure what happens if the wires are crossed on the solenoid but it's doubtful it will work that way. A couple of wires cross shorting could have some funky surprises but it depends on what wires might short together.

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Old 06-06-2018, 09:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: overdrive question

Your incorrect about the solenoid wiring one wire is input voltage as it pulls in, the points open and the secondary coil holds it in. The second wire is a grounding circuit used to ground the coil momentarily when the kick down switch is activated . I have checked these and they are correct. I spoke to a old time Bourg Warner OD mechanic today and may have the cause narrowed down, I'm going to try a few things when I get time and report back my findings. I built a series of indicator lights, wired in so I can watch the operation of the governor and the relay. They are operating properly.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: overdrive question

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Originally Posted by FRANK PKNY View Post
I have tested the relay and governor they are correctly wired and the governor grounds out at 30 MPH as it should. Even with the fuse out and no power in the circuit the OD is in free wheels even in first gear. When I connect the relay to power the overdrive is in even in first gear when I reach third gear and the solenoid kicks in at 30MPH it takes the unit into non OD mode? It seems to me that the problem may be internal.
Your problem has to be in the wiring IMHO. If I understand you correctly, with fuse out it freewheels. (It should.) With fuse in it immediately goes into overdrive, even at a standstill. (Do you hear the relay and solenoid click?) With the fuse in, nothing should happen at standstill, it should have no power to activate the overdrive until 28 mph.

Do we have a terminology issue here? Freewheeling is NOT overdrive. If you reach 30 mph, the freewheeling stops when you let off the accelerator, you are IN overdrive. Sorry if I have misinterpreted what you said and how the car acts.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:33 AM   #17
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Default Re: overdrive question

These old transmissions have a freewheeling sprag unit that allows it to coast anytime its not locked out. The shift function can not happen if the power from the battery is disconnected from the relay. It is still locked in but it just won't shift. When locked out, the electrics are still hot but the function is physically blocked by the shift rail. If it's an older unit that still has a rail lock out switch then the solenoid can not be switch on when the transmission is locked out. I personally thought it was a bad idea to eliminate the rail lock out switch. This kept the solenoid from going hot when the governor switches on to ground. That solenoid uses up a lot of amps when it can't shift. It's not a problem if a person doesn't lock out the overdrive very often but if the local has a lot of steep hills, it's necessary to lock out more often.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:29 AM   #18
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Default Re: overdrive question

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what the overdrive does? I thought when the transmission freewheels you are in Over Drive? When my relay kicks in it goes out of the freewheeling mode. This seems incorrect. However I stand to be corrected if free wheeling is engaged without the overdrive being activated. When the solenoid is engaged I do not get free wheeling, if I understand you correctly this is correct? Now I'm not trying to be difficult but from the way I see it, I thought the free wheeling was in play in the OD mode only? Am I incorrect here? If I'm incorrect then the OD is working properly>
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: overdrive question

Rotorwrench, It's a newer style without the lock out switch. The governor grounding wire goes directly to the kick down switch.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:44 AM   #20
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Default Re: overdrive question

As these units age, the lube can get sticky. Mine would not shift until it warmed up. I drained some lube off the trans, then went to lunch to let the lube settle from the OD into the trans. Then I filled the OD unit with ATF. After a warm up to mix the ATF, it never gave a like of trouble again.
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