The Ford Barn

D's31 · 03-08-2016, 11:51 AM

I usually drive my 31 Tudor sedan every weekend around the neighborhood, a few weeks ago I was driving down the street and someone pulled up next to me to let me know that my car was throwing sparks from under the car. I pulled over and check to see if anything was hanging off and I didn't see anything. I still drove the car home and turn the car off when I got home. I then went inside for a few hours and came back out to check to see if I could find the problem. I took off the floor boards and I find out that the battery had shifted to the right when I made a turn and the battery was touching the clutch bar and sparking every time I would shift. The battery post was soldered on to the bar. I broke it apart and the battery was really hot. I let it cool off and I started the car up again. I have now strapped the battery down with a bungee cord for now and my car doesn't want to start now. I touch the post with a battery charger and have the wife push on the starter and it will start right up. I don't have to leave the cables to charge the battery cause the battery has full charge. Where should I start for diognosis? Any help?

1955cj5 · 03-08-2016, 01:08 PM

I would first take the old battery out and get it tested and then replace if necessary.

If there was a dead short for that period of time the old battery is probably shot....you are probably lucky that it didn't rupture or worse...

H. L. Chauvin · 03-08-2016, 01:24 PM

After following reply no. 2 advice, not a bad idea to get proper performing battery cables, and a proper performing battery box/hold down assembly to avoid a possible dangerous repeat performance.

SeaSlugs · 03-08-2016, 01:51 PM

yea your lucky the battery didnt explode and take out the floor boards...or catch car on fire.

Battery is probably shot now.

the general public generally doesnt interact with one another unless its rather extreme.

Sunnybrook Farm · 03-08-2016, 02:51 PM

I don't think modern 6v batteries are as large as original ones. If you were using an original hold down, it may not hold, they make one that secures the modern battery or at least did when I restored my car.

DougVieyra · 03-08-2016, 03:30 PM

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The space difference between the Hold-Down top clamp/bracket and the smaller sized batteries of today, is easily compensated for by adding the appropriate 'spacing' wood in between the battery and the Hold-Down bracket. I use Duct Tape to secure the wood in place.

CarlG · 03-08-2016, 04:12 PM

I had a new battery box built and use a hold-down from a '89 Bronco II.

Jacksonlll · 03-08-2016, 07:21 PM

Check the connection between the cable and the crimped fitting on the end of the cable that attaches to the battery post. I had corrosion in there and to fix it on the road, I drove a nail between the cable and the crimped fitting. Tighten up all your connections between the battery and the car.

GreaseMonkeyMark · 03-08-2016, 07:22 PM

Do you have a fuse on the starter? Little safety product. If so, new 20 amp fuse and I'll bet you are good to go.

D's31 · 03-09-2016, 09:55 AM

Thanks for all the advise I will check it on the weekend. I'll keep you guys posted

700rpm · 03-10-2016, 04:45 AM

About 20 years ago I made a box out of 1/2" plywood and sat my too-small battery inside that. The ply brought the OD to a good fit in a stock battery holder and hold-down. Since then we have been able to get good correct size group 1 six volt batteries in Portland. That ply also semed to have some kind of beneficial effect on the battery, because I got over fiver years on a three-year guarantee.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 03-10-2016, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaseMonkeyMark

Do you have a fuse on the starter? Little safety product. If so, new 20 amp fuse and I'll bet you are good to go.

Would that have helped in this situation?

Pete / MA · 03-10-2016, 08:53 AM

Need to do a load test on battery to be sure. Cell voltage and electrolyte S.G. might look OK (or the little light on your charger may indicate "charged") but battery could still be shot............Pete

Bob Bidonde · 03-10-2016, 11:05 AM

Drive with a hand crank aboard until the battery is stone dead which may take a long time. I doubt that your car had continuous short, but rather an intermittent one so the battery should still be serviceable.

Holding the battery with bungee cords is a bad idea because the battery has a lot of mass to restrain. Rework the battery support to firmly hold the battery in a safe position.

FrankWest · 03-10-2016, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D's31

I usually drive my 31 Tudor sedan every weekend around the neighborhood, a few weeks ago I was driving down the street and someone pulled up next to me to let me know that my car was throwing sparks from under the car. I pulled over and check to see if anything was hanging off and I didn't see anything. I still drove the car home and turn the car off when I got home. I then went inside for a few hours and came back out to check to see if I could find the problem. I took off the floor boards and I find out that the battery had shifted to the right when I made a turn and the battery was touching the clutch bar and sparking every time I would shift. The battery post was soldered on to the bar. I broke it apart and the battery was really hot. I let it cool off and I started the car up again. I have now strapped the battery down with a bungee cord for now and my car doesn't want to start now. I touch the post with a battery charger and have the wife push on the starter and it will start right up. I don't have to leave the cables to charge the battery cause the battery has full charge. Where should I start for diognosis? Any help?

When I was in Graduate School, I had a quantum electrodynamics professor who had a 67 Chevy Impala with a loose battery sitting the the tray. Every time he would hit a bump the batter would jump up, touch the underside of the hood and short out and kill his car. He didn't have the padding under his hood? He asked me if I knew how to fix it. I said buy a new battery clamp to hold the battery down. He said in amazement, "You can do that?"

You brought up a good point....
In modern cars the batteries are held down with clamps, unlike my professor's car, but in model A and early ford v8. The battery just seems to sit unfastened on a tray?
Or did I leave the part off my 1933 ford? It has a wooden floor cover so nothing would short and the battery is tightly wedged in the battery socket...So I guess it cannot tip over unless you do so real rough driving.

Mitch//pa · 03-10-2016, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaseMonkeyMark

Do you have a fuse on the starter? Little safety product. If so, new 20 amp fuse and I'll bet you are good to go.

As Brent mentioned the fuse is probably not the issue... The fuse feeds the electrical system of the car, ignition, lightning etc, ....the starter will still crank the motor with a blown fuse because the starter is dependent on power directly from the battery..

CarlG · 03-10-2016, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

...In modern cars the batteries are held down with clamps, ... but in model A and early ford v8. The battery just seems to sit unfastened on a tray?
Or did I leave the part off my 1933 ford? It has a wooden floor cover so nothing would short and the battery is tightly wedged in the battery socket...So I guess it cannot tip over unless you do so real rough driving.

Model As all came with a battery clamp or frame. Check out Snyder's on-line catalog: http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/se...battery&page=0

SeaSlugs · 03-10-2016, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

When I was in Graduate School, I had a quantum electrodynamics professor who had a 67 Chevy Impala with a loose battery sitting the the tray. Every time he would hit a bump the batter would jump up, touch the underside of the hood and short out and kill his car. He didn't have the padding under his hood? He asked me if I knew how to fix it. I said buy a new battery clamp to hold the battery down. He said in amazement, "You can do that?"

You brought up a good point....
In modern cars the batteries are held down with clamps, unlike my professor's car, but in model A and early ford v8. The battery just seems to sit unfastened on a tray?
Or did I leave the part off my 1933 ford? It has a wooden floor cover so nothing would short and the battery is tightly wedged in the battery socket...So I guess it cannot tip over unless you do so real rough driving.

dont get me started on fords battery hold down of the 90's... "lets use a 9" long smaller than a 1/4-20 bolt!!!" dont know how many of those get a bit rusty and snap off.

GM used a normal 3/8 bolt about 2" long for every car ive ever worked on.

D's31 · 03-10-2016, 10:51 PM

Update: I was able to check the battery and the battery was actually fully charge and in good shape. I then decided to move the cable that runs from the battery to the starter and the car turned on fine.I then replaced the cable that runs from the battery to the starter and the car starts every time. Thanks for all your help. Now I will get a proper battery support or bracket to prevent this from happening again

03-08-2016, 11:51 AM	#1
D's31 Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Ontario, California Posts: 94	Where to start I usually drive my 31 Tudor sedan every weekend around the neighborhood, a few weeks ago I was driving down the street and someone pulled up next to me to let me know that my car was throwing sparks from under the car. I pulled over and check to see if anything was hanging off and I didn't see anything. I still drove the car home and turn the car off when I got home. I then went inside for a few hours and came back out to check to see if I could find the problem. I took off the floor boards and I find out that the battery had shifted to the right when I made a turn and the battery was touching the clutch bar and sparking every time I would shift. The battery post was soldered on to the bar. I broke it apart and the battery was really hot. I let it cool off and I started the car up again. I have now strapped the battery down with a bungee cord for now and my car doesn't want to start now. I touch the post with a battery charger and have the wife push on the starter and it will start right up. I don't have to leave the cables to charge the battery cause the battery has full charge. Where should I start for diognosis? Any help?

03-08-2016, 01:08 PM	#2
1955cj5 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,578	Re: Where to start I would first take the old battery out and get it tested and then replace if necessary. If there was a dead short for that period of time the old battery is probably shot....you are probably lucky that it didn't rupture or worse... __________________ Early '29 CCPU that had a 4-speed, but not any more.......in the family since '62

03-08-2016, 01:24 PM	#3
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Where to start After following reply no. 2 advice, not a bad idea to get proper performing battery cables, and a proper performing battery box/hold down assembly to avoid a possible dangerous repeat performance.

03-08-2016, 01:51 PM	#4
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Where to start yea your lucky the battery didnt explode and take out the floor boards...or catch car on fire. Battery is probably shot now. the general public generally doesnt interact with one another unless its rather extreme. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

03-08-2016, 02:51 PM	#5
Sunnybrook Farm Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 409	Re: Where to start I don't think modern 6v batteries are as large as original ones. If you were using an original hold down, it may not hold, they make one that secures the modern battery or at least did when I restored my car.

03-08-2016, 03:30 PM	#6
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Where to start Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The space difference between the Hold-Down top clamp/bracket and the smaller sized batteries of today, is easily compensated for by adding the appropriate 'spacing' wood in between the battery and the Hold-Down bracket. I use Duct Tape to secure the wood in place.

03-08-2016, 04:12 PM	#7
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Where to start I had a new battery box built and use a hold-down from a '89 Bronco II. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

03-08-2016, 07:21 PM	#8
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: Where to start Check the connection between the cable and the crimped fitting on the end of the cable that attaches to the battery post. I had corrosion in there and to fix it on the road, I drove a nail between the cable and the crimped fitting. Tighten up all your connections between the battery and the car.

03-08-2016, 07:22 PM	#9
GreaseMonkeyMark Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 15	Re: Where to start Do you have a fuse on the starter? Little safety product. If so, new 20 amp fuse and I'll bet you are good to go.

03-09-2016, 09:55 AM	#10
D's31 Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Ontario, California Posts: 94	Re: Where to start Thanks for all the advise I will check it on the weekend. I'll keep you guys posted

03-10-2016, 04:45 AM	#11
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,902	Re: Where to start About 20 years ago I made a box out of 1/2" plywood and sat my too-small battery inside that. The ply brought the OD to a good fit in a stock battery holder and hold-down. Since then we have been able to get good correct size group 1 six volt batteries in Portland. That ply also semed to have some kind of beneficial effect on the battery, because I got over fiver years on a three-year guarantee. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

03-10-2016, 08:53 AM	#13
Pete / MA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brookfield, NH Posts: 102	Re: Where to start Need to do a load test on battery to be sure. Cell voltage and electrolyte S.G. might look OK (or the little light on your charger may indicate "charged") but battery could still be shot............Pete

03-10-2016, 11:05 AM	#14
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,464	Re: Where to start Drive with a hand crank aboard until the battery is stone dead which may take a long time. I doubt that your car had continuous short, but rather an intermittent one so the battery should still be serviceable. Holding the battery with bungee cords is a bad idea because the battery has a lot of mass to restrain. Rework the battery support to firmly hold the battery in a safe position. __________________ Bob Bidonde

03-10-2016, 10:51 PM	#19
D's31 Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Ontario, California Posts: 94	Re: Where to start Update: I was able to check the battery and the battery was actually fully charge and in good shape. I then decided to move the cable that runs from the battery to the starter and the car turned on fine.I then replaced the cable that runs from the battery to the starter and the car starts every time. Thanks for all your help. Now I will get a proper battery support or bracket to prevent this from happening again