I want to know about the wire-on binding

[reggiedog]

HI:

I have a question here can't figure this out and I don't know what Model A cars used the wire-on binding in the twenty's and thirty's, as I have a car that is suppose to have that on there but I don't know as to how to put it on luckily I know someone that has a car with that on but it's not a Model A.

But I want to know what Model A cars had that binding on the car as I also need to know how wide it is, and what car it is as it's in the front of the cars no where else I do know that much of it.

Thanks Reggiedog

[nkaminar]

I used something like that on my Model T but have never seen it used on a Model A. But I have not seen everything. I also used something like that on my boat.

https://www.christiesfabrics.com/pro...4-25-yard-roll

[Bruce of MN]

Due to ignorance, I don’t know where that is used. Please advise!

[wrndln]

I believe what he is referring to is the trim used on model A open car tops. I have a couple pictures of the original trim on a 28 roadster's top. The trim is NOT the hidem available today, even though it serves the same purpose.
Rusty Nelson

[reggiedog]

Rusty,

HI;
That's exactly what I'm talking about but a short time after I posted this someone sent me what I needed.

But thanks anyway Reggiedog

[eystein]

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Originally Posted by wrndln

I believe what he is referring to is the trim used on model A open car tops. I have a couple pictures of the original trim on a 28 roadster's top. The trim is NOT the hidem available today, even though it serves the same purpose.
Rusty Nelson

The binding in your pictures is Locktite Binding, not Wire-On.

[wrndln]

I have never heard of Locktite Binding. I can't find Locktite Binding using an internet search. Where is it available? I would like to buy some binding/trim that looks more like the original trim in the picture I posted above.
Rusty Nelson

[rotorwrench]

I've always referred to hidem and wire-on as welting since it is used to hide a seam or a cut edge. The two types are basically interchangeable as to use but they will not be interchangeable when authenticity is desired. Some end tips were made more for hidem and some for wire-on so all of this has to be considered when selecting the type of edge welt to use.

The term wire on is not self explanatory since the stuff is tacked or stapled on. The internal wire is just a reinforcement for the material it was made from. Vinyl was not in common use for upholstery before WWII. Lock-Tite or however it was spelled was likely a trade name for the wire on type of welting so you won't find to many references to that in the modern era computer search engines. It's an old auto upholstery reference known mostly to those that have used it.

Wire on type of welting was good for two purposes. The tack or staple point is generally closer to one edge than the other due to the way it is made and can be an advantage in some cases. The large end is folded over so that the most stitches are hidden. It gives a bit cleaner look to the finished welt. Most folks flatten it out before installation then bend it back just enough to staple or tack it down. The small non-flap edge has to be oriented in all cases to prevent moisture from entering the welt. On vertical edges the small end has to be down so that the flap will be down. On horizontal edges, if it's used in that way, the flap would have to be away from normal air flow so that moisture and air can't get under the flap. When properly flattened out and tips are installed, the flap generally stays flat but if a person wants to use some chemical to seal or hold it in place then they should be careful to use something that won't leak out or stain the underlying material.

There are still videos of welting installation on you-tube if folks want to check them out.

[eystein]

Originally Posted by wrndln

I have never heard of Locktite Binding. I can't find Locktite Binding using an internet search. Where is it available? I would like to buy some binding/trim that looks more like the original trim in the picture I posted above.
Rusty Nelson

I don't think anybody are selling it. I had mine custom made by Gary Wert of Wert Custom Upholstery like 5-6 years ago.

I think that the cost (back then) for a 68B was $300.

I suspect he might have retired, but a web listing gives his phone as (717)-9384250, so you might give it a try.

[eystein]

I don't think that the Locktite Binding had wire inside originally. The Locktite Binding has two small diameter cores along one edge with a seam inbetween, such that the larger half moon shaped part that folds over snaps underneath the innermost of the small cores.

See this post which gives a pretty good explanation :

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...light=locktite

It also identifies Bill Sturm as a possible source of the binding

[Kevin in NJ]

So binding comes in a different styles. The 2 we are most familiar with, sort of, are the normal stuff you can buy today and Locktite.

The difference is in how they cover the area. The purpose of the binding is to cover the fasteners used to hold a top down.

The stuff you can buy today is bound in the middle. So you get equal coverage on either side.

On the Cabriolet and other cars you want to bias the coverage towards the body to hide the lines.

The locktite binding does that.

No, no one makes the locktite binding. I spoke to one person who does upholstery who had made a bunch of it by hand. I just missed out buying what was left over from an cabriolet project he did. He was very clear he never wants to make it again. Another person I talked to basically said the same thing.

Locktite binding is also not the best. It tends to flip up and the people say they use silicon to hold it down.

Also the tips that are for the locktite binding have a special shape. A person used to make accurate reproductions, but he stopped making them.

Most of the above information is based on my experiences from 5 or more years ago so things may have changed.

[eystein]

The commonly available welting tips do not match well with the Locktite Binding. There was a guy who made good matching tips, Bob Anderson, but I believe he passed away. There was a discussion here on Fordbarn whether someone had got the dies for the tips that he made. You might want to search for that post.

[eystein]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

So binding comes in a different styles. The 2 we are most familiar with, sort of, are the normal stuff you can buy today and Locktite.

The difference is in how they cover the area. The purpose of the binding is to cover the fasteners used to hold a top down.

The stuff you can buy today is bound in the middle. So you get equal coverage on either side.

On the Cabriolet and other cars you want to bias the coverage towards the body to hide the lines.

The locktite binding does that.

No, no one makes the locktite binding. I spoke to one person who does upholstery who had made a bunch of it by hand. I just missed out buying what was left over from an cabriolet project he did. He was very clear he never wants to make it again. Another person I talked to basically said the same thing.

Locktite binding is also not the best. It tends to flip up and the people say they use silicon to hold it down.

Also the tips that are for the locktite binding have a special shape. A person used to make accurate reproductions, but he stopped making them.

Most of the above information is based on my experiences from 5 or more years ago so things may have changed.

Never had any problem with the binding that Gary Wert made for me flipping up.

[rotorwrench]

The AACA forum has a thread about wire on which is pretty interesting. There are some photos that show how the zig-zag wire ribbon strip runs through the welt. The wire, when the welt is folded, is what holds the flap down after it is flattened out. They also mention a fellow that has a machine to make the wire ribbon part of the welt. If a person could get that wire ribbon then they could sew their own material over that to match what ever they need for a wire on. Here is a link.
https://forums.aaca.org/topic/295701...idem-so-forth/

If Locktite uses a double core on the small end with no wire then it could be fabricated on the sewing machine as long as a person has the proper feet for the machine and knows the dimensions to cut and fold the material to. A person can even make their own hidem welt without too much trouble. I think there is a You-Tube on that.