I think I killed my starter

[rrich1]

I'm hoping it is just the starter and nothing more.

While waiting for a carb rebuild kit to come I sprayed carb cleaner in the carb to see if that would help with my starting issue. I have been able to start it but it will not stay running for more than a few seconds, at the most 30 seconds. Yesterday I tried it a few times getting it to start. On the last attempt the truck just abruptly stopped turning over. Pressed the starter pedal and nothing. No sound. I went to try and crank the engine by hand and it wouldn't crank at all. I previously set the timing with the indicator pin and was able to crank it one handed. Now nothing.


I had planned to change the oil today and drop the pan. After dropping the pan everything in that area looked fine to me.

I next took out the starter. Having never messed with a starter (electrical and I don't normally get along). Having watched one video online it shows the Bendix being able to at least spin. Mine does not and possibly seized? There is also a hole that I found in the case.

Also when I went to crank it the crank shaft pulley seems wobbly. Is that normal? I tried to crank it after dropping the pan and taking the starter out. The crank handle seems to spin and not actually turn the engine. I don't see how it would have stripped after just being able to do it one handed earlier in the week.

I have attached pics of the starter and underside of the block. Any advice I'd much appreciated. Thanks.
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[Bill G]

In picture #4 of the starter mounting hole, there seems to be something in there in about the 4 O'Clock position. I can't make it out.

If you put jumper cables on the starter and push the starter rod, will the starter spin? The odd thing is that your narrative says that all of a sudden there was absolutely nothing. No sound. So, I take it that means there was no loud clunk or bang that caused this to happen?

Your flywheel ring gear and the Bendix gear on the starter both look brand new. Very little wear.

[rrich1]

Originally Posted by Magicbox51

In picture #4 of the starter mounting hole, there seems to be something in there in about the 4 O'Clock position. I can't make it out.

If you put jumper cables on the starter and push the starter rod, will the starter spin? The odd thing is that your narrative says that all of a sudden there was absolutely nothing. No sound. So, I take it that means there was no loud clunk or bang that caused this to happen?

Your flywheel ring gear and the Bendix gear on the starter both look brand new. Very little wear.

Here is a different pic of the of the starter mounting hole. Can I use a 12v jumped pack to test the starter and see if it spins?

Honestly I don't remember for sure if there was a clunk or not. I want to say there was something.

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[30 Closed Cab PU]

Armchair mechanic here. You seem to have 2 symptoms.


One - the starter is not working, everything else is working (lights, horn etc.). Assuming it is not making any noise (clunk, or a spinning noise. Causes-
Bad Starter - Try jumping power/ground to starter, jump pack OK.
Bad starter switch - Take it off/apart. Inspect/clean contacts.
Not getting proper power/ground - Check clean/tighten/Inspect cable/connections from battery to the starter on both ends. Clean surface (corrosion/paint/etc.) where the starter bolts to the motor.


Two - Hand crank not tuning motor over, wobbly.
Verify - have someone else under the car and hand crank. Or set you phone camera to video, place under motor and hand crank, or hand crank and look at the flywheel where you took the starter out, or pop the distributor cap off and see if the rotor is moving when you hand crank.
Causes - Possible 2 piece Pulley? - have read where they can go bad. - Take fan belt off, turn/check the pulley by hand, Should not wobble or turn by hand.


If wobbles/loose - remove nut and pulley and inspect.

[holdover]

"Can I use a 12v jumped pack to test the starter and see if it spins?"


Yes you can use a 12V battery pack to test the starter on the bench, or use jumper cables attached to a good 6 or 12V battery.

[leo]

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Murderer!

[Kurt in NJ]

The burned hole in the cover band doesn't look recent, but perhaps a look is in order, probably it is the result of a brush wire grounding out ---- it could have severed the wire

[Dick Steinkamp]

It may be an optical illusion, but it looks like there is something stuck between the ring gear and the housing in your last picture...

[PC/SR]

Good eye Dick. Woodruff key? Also clean off the mating surfaces.

[mike657894]

a first check on the starter is to remove the switch cover a very simple set of button contacts are under there and they may need shining up. and if you got lucky that could be the only problem with it. for the life of me i cant remember if the starter spins free or not.

[ryanheacox]

2 piece pulley issue?

[Bob C]

I think Dick's picture is just the bell housing overlapping the flywheel housing.
The crank pulley should not be loose, you can see where it has been working.
There should not be a gap at the red circle.


Bob

[Kurt in NJ]

I have that style 2 piece pulley on my smiths compresser, (all made out of parts not good enough for on road vehicles---- my pulley did the same- and a chunk o the belt groove broke, it has always come loose and needed tightening, the soft pot metal won't let the crank ratchet keep a torque---- my solution was to buy another shit pulley with less wear(1$), this way I don't have to change the sleeve---- keep turning, if it won't tighten then there is also a problem with the threads

[rrich1]

Thanks for the replies so far! A little update:

I was able to use the fan belt and spin the engine by hand so the engine is not seized. Yay!

The battery was replaced last month by the previous owner. I have a feeling that I attempted to start the engine too many times, too often, (hoping a quick spray cleaning of the carb would work. it didnt so I will be taking the carb off and at a minimum cleaning it. I purchased a rebuild kit and it arrived today) which 1. caused the starter to get stuck. And 2 not able to keep it running I possibly ran the battery down. I borrowed a 6v charger and have the battery on it right now. After about 30 min I used jumper cables and hooked the negative cable to the copper post of the starter and the positive to the area where it bolts to the flywheel housing. I got nothing. But that could also be the battery didnt have enough juice yet. The charger doesn't say but i believe it is a trickle charger.

I will soak the front gasket for the pan tonight in oil and hope to get it installed tomorrow night after I get the kids to bed.

I took a top pic of the pulley and attached it below.

[Bob C]

I would get a new crank pulley before you put the pan back on. It will be easier to
get the inner piece of the two piece pulley off without the pan.


Bob

[rrich1]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I would get a new crank pulley before you put the pan back on. It will be easier to
get the inner piece of the two piece pulley off without the pan.


Bob

Ok. Ill pick up a ratchet nut as well. I see Snyders sells a wrench for the nut. Is it worth the price of the wrench??

[Bill G]

Hooking the battery up to the copper post and to the case of the starter is correct, but in order to get it to run, you have to push (hard) on the shaft that your foot would normally push to activate the starter. That shaft is connected to a switch inside..

[TerryO]

Starters can have a lot of torque, so hold it tight.


TerryO

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Ratchet nuts are notorious for not loosening. You need a wrench bent so it can fit over the nut, and bent to clear the pulley since the nut is recessed in the pulley.


The wrench handle should be long enough so the free end can be jammed against the frame of the vehicle. With a working starter, with the wrench jammed against the frame, ignition off, bump the starter, and the nut should loosen.


You can make your own wrench by heating a handle and bending it appropriately, or buy one. But the handle needs to be long enough to jam against the frame for stubborn ratchet nuts.

[rrich1]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Ratchet nuts are notorious for not loosening. You need a wrench bent so it can fit over the nut, and bent to clear the pulley since the nut is recessed in the pulley.


The wrench handle should be long enough so the free end can be jammed against the frame of the vehicle. With a working starter, with the wrench jammed against the frame, ignition off, bump the starter, and the nut should loosen.


You can make your own wrench by heating a handle and bending it appropriately, or buy one. But the handle needs to be long enough to jam against the frame for stubborn ratchet nuts.

great to know thank you.

I took the starter apart and cleaned the inside. Everything looked good but the bendix is still seized on the shaft. I was able to get everything back together (remind me never to do that again). I have yet to put it back in so I can attempt to rock the truck and get the bendix free.

I ordered quite a few parts from snyder's including a new two piece crank pulley, rope seals, carb gasket kit so I can take the carb apart and clean it, ratchet nut, ratchet nut wrench.

With Snyder's super quick shipping I hope to get things back together this monday night or tuesday.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If you are unfamiliar/have not previously replaced an A oil pan gasket, recommend you read up on it by searching here on Ford Barn and/or in the Les Andrews books. There are quite a few methods.


Key is knowing to use a sealer on the pan bolts since some are not blind holes and go into the motor, will leak . Do not trim the rope seals, they are long so when the pan is tightened up the rope gasket is forced into the pan groove and against the shaft.


Use a small amount of grease on the rope seal so the rope gasket does not initially "burn" from the shaft spinning on it.


Do not over torque the pan bolts causing the gasket to deform and/or causing the pan to warp. Recommended is to order/replace the pan bolt lock washers.


I prefer to apply a skim coat of an anaerobic sealer on both sides of the gasket, applied with my finger.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002UEONM...3920250_dpLink


Do not forget to clean out the oil pump screen and in the oil pan under the dipper tray. If you do not have one, now is a good time to swap in a magnetic oil plug.


These also come in handy for holding and aligning the gasket while putting the pan on.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword


Lots of other tips/methods others may have and use.