The Ford Barn

talwrench · 08-04-2016, 10:39 AM

In spring I rebuilt the front end steering on my 30 Coupe. New king pins and bushings, and two new steering arms, and tie rod end kits. Everything works smooth and free. Before I hooked up the drag link I tried the steering wheel, It seemed a little tight and hard to turn. I put it together thinking I would do a complete rebuild later on the gear box. I have now rebuilt the gear box. AfterI installed the steering, I could hardley turn the steering at all with the front wheels off the ground. Althought the steering box was free on the bench after making all the adjustment per Les Andres book... Took the gear out, thinking the sector gear was worn , I replaced with a very slight worn used sector gear. Made all adjustments per the book on the bench, nice and free. Decide I would check each step of installation to see if I could find at what point something might be going wrong. Installed gear, try to turn wheel without drag link installed. very tigth and squeeked. Loosen nuts and just snug the two anchor bolts, better but still stiff. Loosen nuts alot and steering is free. Can not figure out why Tighting the gear bolts cause the binding. Has anyone ever incountered this? Note: the two mounting holes are worn slightly oblong. I have installed the O ring and washer on the shaft before installing in the chassis and centered the sector shaft in the opening before tighting. Any help appreicated! Iam currently driving with the two bolts snug and hard steering.

SeaSlugs · 08-04-2016, 10:44 AM

maybe when you tighten the bolts your dashboard mount is off center so its trying to bow the steering column/shaft and binding up top instead of below... wasn't there 2 different column mounts for 30/31 cars?

could also be pushing the column down too hard or pulling up causing binding.

burner31 · 08-04-2016, 11:37 AM

I'm having a similar issue after rebuilding my 2 tooth gear box, works great on the bench, but I keep getting some slight binding during right hand turns no matter how I adjust it.
I can get rid of the binding but then my steering is way to loose.
If I figure it out I'll post back.

harleytoprock · 08-04-2016, 11:46 AM

Try tightening gear box to chassis bolts with no upper column clamp or rubber and see where the column tube locates it self. SeaSlugs may be on to the problem of mis-alignment.

burner31 · 08-04-2016, 12:08 PM

I'll try that

George Miller · 08-04-2016, 12:19 PM

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Do you mean you have a washer and O ring on the shaft going through frame.
If so you are going to put the box in a bind when you tighten the bolts. If you going to use a O ring you need to chamber the washer and leave about -008 squeeze on the O ring. you also need to make the washer so the mounting holes go through it.If you do not support the mounting holes it will put the box in a big bind.

ursus · 08-04-2016, 12:21 PM

YOUR QUOTE: "Note: the two mounting holes are worn slightly oblong".
Check to make sure that the sector isn't rubbing on the frame where it passes through the hole in the chassis. Sometimes one or both of the holes drilled for mounting the gear are worn oblong, allowing the assembly to sit off center. It is not uncommon to find a sector gear with a groove worn into the shaft as a result of rubbing on the frame.

talwrench · 08-04-2016, 12:28 PM

Currently the sector shaft is centered in the opening, and not touching any where. The washer and o ring I speak about came in the seal kit from Brattons. The washer is maybe only .015 thick.. Will try the suggestion of tightening the bolts without any anchor on the column. will report back.

Big hammer · 08-04-2016, 01:16 PM

If that doesn't help, try leaving the o-ring and washer off. Just a thought, no experience!

Wareagle · 08-04-2016, 04:25 PM

I had the same experience after rebuilding my box. After much research here on the Barn, I realized that the slotted screw on the bottom of the box needed to be adjusted. The service bulletins give you the method of adjustments. After going thru all of the adjustments in the red book and the service bulletins, it now works fine. Just had to tweak the slotted screw to the right ever so slightly. Too much and it will be tight in the other direction.

Jim

RonC · 08-04-2016, 09:57 PM

Your box is not adjusted properly. I would only use the Ford service bulletins for the adjustment instructions. It is very possible your internal gear box parts are worn and or not matched and will never adjust. I would replace all the parts including the worm.

Arlyn Bieber · 08-04-2016, 11:01 PM

I have probably rebuilt over 50 two-tooth steering boxes and have learned the hard way about using "used" parts that look "good". Never do it! These boxes are over 80 years old and probably driven most of their life without oil. Henry's method of sealing the bottom end was not one of his better designs. You must replace the worm, sector, bearings and races. Then machine the sector housing for a lip seal (much better than an "O" ring). Also use the cork ring between the sector housing and body with RTV. Adjust according to the Service Bulletins. Do it right and it will last another 80 years.

Jacksonlll · 08-05-2016, 03:56 PM

We all just replace the sector gear and try to adjust it. Won't work. The worm is worn in the middle where the sector gear has worn it. You can't adjust this out. Like Arlyn says, replace both the worm and the sector and hope the new gears match. They should.
It is common to adjust the gear on the bench, but when you put a load on them they will bind an squawk. All you can do is back off the sector and put up with the slop in the center position. You can't drive a car that is tight in the center position. It will drive you crazy. I tried it.

Terry, NJ · 08-05-2016, 07:12 PM

I rebuilt my second box and I have maybe 11/2 - 2 " play in the wheel so I loosen the four nuts, one of which has an offset bushing. By "loosened", I mean just loose enough that it will move. Then I took a 7/8 wrench and alternatively turned it right to left each time tightening the the four nuts and rechecking the play. It some positions the steering wheel would bind, others, it would get looser, so I would readjust accordingly. This is a frustrating, time consuming exercise. I am of the opinion that to correct it 100%, I must get under the car to turn the adjustment screw under the box. For now it will have to do. One interesting fact I ran across is that the radius on the worm is larger than the swing of the two teeth so the box will gain play as you turn it towards the lock. Come back to center, and the play tightens up again.
Terry

talwrench · 08-06-2016, 03:57 PM

Thanks to everyone who replied. He is what I ended up doing after many attemps at adjustments. took off the thin steel washer, proped the steering in position at the column clamp than tighten up the two mounting bolts. Turn wheel, nice and free. Than tighten clamp at column support, still turns free. Installed pittman arm, still free, install drag link, some resitance but not like before. This is the way I will drive for awhile. But it dose drip oil at the sector shaft without the washer! Thanks for all the replies. The future tells me the thing to do is replace the sector and worm gear with new!

08-04-2016, 10:39 AM	#1
talwrench Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 73	steering gear binding In spring I rebuilt the front end steering on my 30 Coupe. New king pins and bushings, and two new steering arms, and tie rod end kits. Everything works smooth and free. Before I hooked up the drag link I tried the steering wheel, It seemed a little tight and hard to turn. I put it together thinking I would do a complete rebuild later on the gear box. I have now rebuilt the gear box. AfterI installed the steering, I could hardley turn the steering at all with the front wheels off the ground. Althought the steering box was free on the bench after making all the adjustment per Les Andres book... Took the gear out, thinking the sector gear was worn , I replaced with a very slight worn used sector gear. Made all adjustments per the book on the bench, nice and free. Decide I would check each step of installation to see if I could find at what point something might be going wrong. Installed gear, try to turn wheel without drag link installed. very tigth and squeeked. Loosen nuts and just snug the two anchor bolts, better but still stiff. Loosen nuts alot and steering is free. Can not figure out why Tighting the gear bolts cause the binding. Has anyone ever incountered this? Note: the two mounting holes are worn slightly oblong. I have installed the O ring and washer on the shaft before installing in the chassis and centered the sector shaft in the opening before tighting. Any help appreicated! Iam currently driving with the two bolts snug and hard steering.

08-04-2016, 10:44 AM	#2
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: steering gear binding maybe when you tighten the bolts your dashboard mount is off center so its trying to bow the steering column/shaft and binding up top instead of below... wasn't there 2 different column mounts for 30/31 cars? could also be pushing the column down too hard or pulling up causing binding. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

08-04-2016, 11:37 AM	#3
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: steering gear binding I'm having a similar issue after rebuilding my 2 tooth gear box, works great on the bench, but I keep getting some slight binding during right hand turns no matter how I adjust it. I can get rid of the binding but then my steering is way to loose. If I figure it out I'll post back. __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

08-04-2016, 11:46 AM	#4
harleytoprock Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 438	Re: steering gear binding Try tightening gear box to chassis bolts with no upper column clamp or rubber and see where the column tube locates it self. SeaSlugs may be on to the problem of mis-alignment.

08-04-2016, 12:08 PM	#5
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: steering gear binding I'll try that __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

08-04-2016, 12:19 PM	#6
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: steering gear binding Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Do you mean you have a washer and O ring on the shaft going through frame. If so you are going to put the box in a bind when you tighten the bolts. If you going to use a O ring you need to chamber the washer and leave about -008 squeeze on the O ring. you also need to make the washer so the mounting holes go through it.If you do not support the mounting holes it will put the box in a big bind.

08-04-2016, 12:21 PM	#7
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,375	Re: steering gear binding YOUR QUOTE: "Note: the two mounting holes are worn slightly oblong". Check to make sure that the sector isn't rubbing on the frame where it passes through the hole in the chassis. Sometimes one or both of the holes drilled for mounting the gear are worn oblong, allowing the assembly to sit off center. It is not uncommon to find a sector gear with a groove worn into the shaft as a result of rubbing on the frame.

08-04-2016, 12:28 PM	#8
talwrench Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 73	Re: steering gear binding Currently the sector shaft is centered in the opening, and not touching any where. The washer and o ring I speak about came in the seal kit from Brattons. The washer is maybe only .015 thick.. Will try the suggestion of tightening the bolts without any anchor on the column. will report back.

08-04-2016, 01:16 PM	#9
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: steering gear binding If that doesn't help, try leaving the o-ring and washer off. Just a thought, no experience!

08-04-2016, 04:25 PM	#10
Wareagle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Ohio Posts: 63	Re: steering gear binding I had the same experience after rebuilding my box. After much research here on the Barn, I realized that the slotted screw on the bottom of the box needed to be adjusted. The service bulletins give you the method of adjustments. After going thru all of the adjustments in the red book and the service bulletins, it now works fine. Just had to tweak the slotted screw to the right ever so slightly. Too much and it will be tight in the other direction. Jim __________________ Jim P. central Ohio 1930 Tudor Sedan 15 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and loving it!!

08-04-2016, 09:57 PM	#11
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: steering gear binding Your box is not adjusted properly. I would only use the Ford service bulletins for the adjustment instructions. It is very possible your internal gear box parts are worn and or not matched and will never adjust. I would replace all the parts including the worm.

08-04-2016, 11:01 PM	#12
Arlyn Bieber Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 180	Re: steering gear binding I have probably rebuilt over 50 two-tooth steering boxes and have learned the hard way about using "used" parts that look "good". Never do it! These boxes are over 80 years old and probably driven most of their life without oil. Henry's method of sealing the bottom end was not one of his better designs. You must replace the worm, sector, bearings and races. Then machine the sector housing for a lip seal (much better than an "O" ring). Also use the cork ring between the sector housing and body with RTV. Adjust according to the Service Bulletins. Do it right and it will last another 80 years.

08-05-2016, 03:56 PM	#13
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: steering gear binding We all just replace the sector gear and try to adjust it. Won't work. The worm is worn in the middle where the sector gear has worn it. You can't adjust this out. Like Arlyn says, replace both the worm and the sector and hope the new gears match. They should. It is common to adjust the gear on the bench, but when you put a load on them they will bind an squawk. All you can do is back off the sector and put up with the slop in the center position. You can't drive a car that is tight in the center position. It will drive you crazy. I tried it.

08-05-2016, 07:12 PM	#14
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: steering gear binding I rebuilt my second box and I have maybe 11/2 - 2 " play in the wheel so I loosen the four nuts, one of which has an offset bushing. By "loosened", I mean just loose enough that it will move. Then I took a 7/8 wrench and alternatively turned it right to left each time tightening the the four nuts and rechecking the play. It some positions the steering wheel would bind, others, it would get looser, so I would readjust accordingly. This is a frustrating, time consuming exercise. I am of the opinion that to correct it 100%, I must get under the car to turn the adjustment screw under the box. For now it will have to do. One interesting fact I ran across is that the radius on the worm is larger than the swing of the two teeth so the box will gain play as you turn it towards the lock. Come back to center, and the play tightens up again. Terry

08-06-2016, 03:57 PM	#15
talwrench Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Quakertown, PA Posts: 73	Re: steering gear binding Thanks to everyone who replied. He is what I ended up doing after many attemps at adjustments. took off the thin steel washer, proped the steering in position at the column clamp than tighten up the two mounting bolts. Turn wheel, nice and free. Than tighten clamp at column support, still turns free. Installed pittman arm, still free, install drag link, some resitance but not like before. This is the way I will drive for awhile. But it dose drip oil at the sector shaft without the washer! Thanks for all the replies. The future tells me the thing to do is replace the sector and worm gear with new!