The Ford Barn

Wareagle · 04-05-2016, 04:47 PM

Hello all. Been a while since I've posted. Got engine rebuilt with Snyder 6.0 heads, Ford model 94 carb, mallory distributor from Bubba and a set of headers. Engine runs extremely smooth. Compression runs around 110 psi in all cylinders. Engine fires on first revolution or two. Problem....pulled plugs and they are real black. If I lean it out, the engine dies. I've adjusted the float several times. I'm running out of ideas. Any suggestions??? Pic below is the current set up. Thanks

CarlG · 04-05-2016, 05:00 PM

It would appear that your fuel line is running uphill. Are you using a pump?

Also it looks like your air filter may be a tad bit too small.

Bob C · 04-05-2016, 05:07 PM

When you say you leaned it out are you talking about the idle mixture screws
or changing jets.

Bob

Wareagle · 04-05-2016, 05:20 PM

Fuel line is pretty much level with the ground. Tank is full so I'm getting plenty of fuel flow. The idle mixture screws are adjusted to let it idle smoothly. If I remove the air cleaner, it dies. It will stay running if I place my hand around carb inlet and help meter the air. Exhaust burns the eyes.
Runs smooth at all rpm's, just rich as heck.

WestCoast · 04-05-2016, 05:36 PM

you have a vacuum or fuel flow problem , the air cleaner is acting as a choke, same with you putting your hand over the carb, your hand is acting as a choke, check manifold gasket, carb base gasket, and carb gaskets

Wareagle · 04-05-2016, 05:41 PM

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Carb has been apart soooo many times just to get all the leaks stopped. What do I torque the manifold gaskets to? I think I torqued them to 35. Maybe I'm a little lite there. Also forgot to say I'm running the new Stipe 330 cam. Should I spray the gaskets with carb cleaner to check for leaks?

1931 flamingo · 04-05-2016, 05:46 PM

My question is the same as post # 3. If it's running rich, what jets and power valve are you using??
Paul in CT

CarlG · 04-05-2016, 05:53 PM

An unlit propane torch is also a good way to check for vacuum leaks.

If in fact your air cleaner is acting as a choke, you may well check out getting something with a little more surface on it for a permanent solution -- once you find the problem, than is. Ideally, the air cleaner shouldn't make much difference whether it's on or off.

rally 1 · 04-05-2016, 06:13 PM

What is the idle vacuum reading. If too low, the 94 will continuously dump fuel through the power valve.
Try a Stromberg carb, see if the problem goes away.
I've never been able to get any downdraft setup to run great using only gravity feed.
What is the ignition timing set at?
Ken

Wareagle · 04-05-2016, 06:15 PM

I ordered a couple of sizes of main jets but haven't received them yet. The Power valve is the stock valve as is the main jets, .050 I think. I ordered a set of .040 and a set of .045 and also a 10.5 power valve. What does the manifold torque to? Air cleaner will also get bigger. I was wondering if I had too much carb for the motor.

Tom Wesenberg · 04-05-2016, 06:19 PM

I don't see the linkage connected to the carb, so can I assume this hasn't been driven on the road?
If the engine is running good, I wouldn't worry about plugs color when the engine has just been run in the shop.

rally 1 · 04-05-2016, 06:26 PM

Jim,
I run two 97 Stromberg, with stock jets, idles clean.
That being said, I spent many hours playing with ignition timing.
Are you running a stock distributer?
My engine is 8:1, Lion head, 2 Stromberg 97s, header.
Previous setup, I tried two 94's, could never get the power valves to stop dumping fuel. Tried plugging the PV, then lost off idle throttle response.
The firing order of an A engine plays havoc with the PV.
PM me if you want, can discuss further.
Ken
Cleveland, Ohio

V4F · 04-05-2016, 06:38 PM

just for grins you might try the e-3 plugs . I run a weber & it was rich at idle , changed to the e-3's , no more black plugs or fumes at an idle . just my thought .

Benson · 04-05-2016, 06:41 PM

Holley carbs use a rubber diaphragm in the power valve.

If engine backfires too many times the rubber can be damaged and the power valve floods the engine depending how large the crack in the rubber is.

stouchton · 04-05-2016, 06:44 PM

severely retarded ignition timing or incorrect cam timing can take you down this path.

Wareagle · 04-05-2016, 06:46 PM

Thanks Ken. No I have a mallory setup from Bubba. Timing seems good. Points set to 18. I have set it on tdc several times but it seems to like 4-8*. Starts right up and throttle response is good. Haven't had it on the road yet. Throttle controls still being fabricated. When you say messed with timing a lot to get it to run right, what did you end up with?

Checked all gaskets using the propane. It had no effect. Where can one find agood rebuilt Stromburg? Just in case.

Wareagle · 04-05-2016, 06:50 PM

Vacuum at idle is 18hg. Power valve is stock. I ordered a 10.5 pv just in case. I will try and advance the timing and see what effect it has. Where do you get e-3 plugs for a model a?

rally 1 · 04-05-2016, 07:01 PM

Jim,

For my combination, I used a Mallory dist with E-spark conversion.
Initial timing at 16 btdc, total at 26 degrees/3000 rpm
I'm using regular Motorcraft plugs.
I have heard good things about E-3 plugs, will be trying them in my new engine.
I have several Mallory dist, would recurve one on my Sun machine, stick it in the car, try it. The butt dyno tells you what works and what doesn't. I've been running this combo for 6 years, 20k miles. Never loads up, starts immediately, even in the middle of winter.
You just need a little tweaking. Lot of very knowledgeable people on this forum, you'll figure it out.
K

Wareagle · 04-05-2016, 07:10 PM

Thanks Ken. I did go out and bump timing up a bit. It now runs without the air cleaner on it, but still will burn your eyes. I might try to bump it more tomorrow. Might pull distributor and start over.

Thanks guys for all the suggestions.. I will try each and every one before I give up. Lot of knowledge here for us slow guys to absorb. Just don't get too impatient with us. We're trying.

Thanks again,
Jim

jax55 · 04-05-2016, 07:51 PM

Jim, Is the PV new or an OE that was in there? If the PV is bad, it will dump fuel into the carb. What does happen if you close the idle screws? If it does not stumble/ stall you definitely have too much fuel going to the motor. If you have to turn the idle RPM set screw way up, it may be bypassing the idle circuit and going way rich.
Just some thoughts... maybe you already checked all this.

04-05-2016, 05:00 PM	#2
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! It would appear that your fuel line is running uphill. Are you using a pump? Also it looks like your air filter may be a tad bit too small. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

04-05-2016, 05:07 PM	#3
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,743	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! When you say you leaned it out are you talking about the idle mixture screws or changing jets. Bob

04-05-2016, 05:20 PM	#4
Wareagle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Ohio Posts: 63	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Fuel line is pretty much level with the ground. Tank is full so I'm getting plenty of fuel flow. The idle mixture screws are adjusted to let it idle smoothly. If I remove the air cleaner, it dies. It will stay running if I place my hand around carb inlet and help meter the air. Exhaust burns the eyes. Runs smooth at all rpm's, just rich as heck. __________________ Jim P. central Ohio 1930 Tudor Sedan 15 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and loving it!!

04-05-2016, 05:36 PM	#5
WestCoast Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: oroville calif Posts: 893	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! you have a vacuum or fuel flow problem , the air cleaner is acting as a choke, same with you putting your hand over the carb, your hand is acting as a choke, check manifold gasket, carb base gasket, and carb gaskets

04-05-2016, 05:41 PM	#6
Wareagle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Ohio Posts: 63	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Carb has been apart soooo many times just to get all the leaks stopped. What do I torque the manifold gaskets to? I think I torqued them to 35. Maybe I'm a little lite there. Also forgot to say I'm running the new Stipe 330 cam. Should I spray the gaskets with carb cleaner to check for leaks? __________________ Jim P. central Ohio 1930 Tudor Sedan 15 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and loving it!!

04-05-2016, 05:46 PM	#7
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! My question is the same as post # 3. If it's running rich, what jets and power valve are you using?? Paul in CT

04-05-2016, 05:53 PM	#8
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! An unlit propane torch is also a good way to check for vacuum leaks. If in fact your air cleaner is acting as a choke, you may well check out getting something with a little more surface on it for a permanent solution -- once you find the problem, than is. Ideally, the air cleaner shouldn't make much difference whether it's on or off. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

04-05-2016, 06:13 PM	#9
rally 1 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 171	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! What is the idle vacuum reading. If too low, the 94 will continuously dump fuel through the power valve. Try a Stromberg carb, see if the problem goes away. I've never been able to get any downdraft setup to run great using only gravity feed. What is the ignition timing set at? Ken

04-05-2016, 06:15 PM	#10
Wareagle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Ohio Posts: 63	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! I ordered a couple of sizes of main jets but haven't received them yet. The Power valve is the stock valve as is the main jets, .050 I think. I ordered a set of .040 and a set of .045 and also a 10.5 power valve. What does the manifold torque to? Air cleaner will also get bigger. I was wondering if I had too much carb for the motor. __________________ Jim P. central Ohio 1930 Tudor Sedan 15 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and loving it!!

04-05-2016, 06:19 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! I don't see the linkage connected to the carb, so can I assume this hasn't been driven on the road? If the engine is running good, I wouldn't worry about plugs color when the engine has just been run in the shop.

04-05-2016, 06:26 PM	#12
rally 1 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 171	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Jim, I run two 97 Stromberg, with stock jets, idles clean. That being said, I spent many hours playing with ignition timing. Are you running a stock distributer? My engine is 8:1, Lion head, 2 Stromberg 97s, header. Previous setup, I tried two 94's, could never get the power valves to stop dumping fuel. Tried plugging the PV, then lost off idle throttle response. The firing order of an A engine plays havoc with the PV. PM me if you want, can discuss further. Ken Cleveland, Ohio

04-05-2016, 06:38 PM	#13
V4F Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ca. Posts: 2,522	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! just for grins you might try the e-3 plugs . I run a weber & it was rich at idle , changed to the e-3's , no more black plugs or fumes at an idle . just my thought . __________________ V4f

04-05-2016, 06:41 PM	#14
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,594	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Holley carbs use a rubber diaphragm in the power valve. If engine backfires too many times the rubber can be damaged and the power valve floods the engine depending how large the crack in the rubber is.

04-05-2016, 06:44 PM	#15
stouchton Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Pottstown, PA Posts: 342	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! severely retarded ignition timing or incorrect cam timing can take you down this path.

04-05-2016, 06:46 PM	#16
Wareagle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Ohio Posts: 63	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Thanks Ken. No I have a mallory setup from Bubba. Timing seems good. Points set to 18. I have set it on tdc several times but it seems to like 4-8*. Starts right up and throttle response is good. Haven't had it on the road yet. Throttle controls still being fabricated. When you say messed with timing a lot to get it to run right, what did you end up with? Checked all gaskets using the propane. It had no effect. Where can one find agood rebuilt Stromburg? Just in case. __________________ Jim P. central Ohio 1930 Tudor Sedan 15 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and loving it!!

04-05-2016, 06:50 PM	#17
Wareagle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Ohio Posts: 63	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Vacuum at idle is 18hg. Power valve is stock. I ordered a 10.5 pv just in case. I will try and advance the timing and see what effect it has. Where do you get e-3 plugs for a model a? __________________ Jim P. central Ohio 1930 Tudor Sedan 15 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and loving it!!

04-05-2016, 07:01 PM	#18
rally 1 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 171	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Jim, For my combination, I used a Mallory dist with E-spark conversion. Initial timing at 16 btdc, total at 26 degrees/3000 rpm I'm using regular Motorcraft plugs. I have heard good things about E-3 plugs, will be trying them in my new engine. I have several Mallory dist, would recurve one on my Sun machine, stick it in the car, try it. The butt dyno tells you what works and what doesn't. I've been running this combo for 6 years, 20k miles. Never loads up, starts immediately, even in the middle of winter. You just need a little tweaking. Lot of very knowledgeable people on this forum, you'll figure it out. K

04-05-2016, 07:10 PM	#19
Wareagle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Ohio Posts: 63	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Thanks Ken. I did go out and bump timing up a bit. It now runs without the air cleaner on it, but still will burn your eyes. I might try to bump it more tomorrow. Might pull distributor and start over. Thanks guys for all the suggestions.. I will try each and every one before I give up. Lot of knowledge here for us slow guys to absorb. Just don't get too impatient with us. We're trying. Thanks again, Jim __________________ Jim P. central Ohio 1930 Tudor Sedan 15 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and loving it!!

04-05-2016, 07:51 PM	#20
jax55 Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Santa Barbara, Ca Posts: 329	Re: new engine runs too rich HELP!! Jim, Is the PV new or an OE that was in there? If the PV is bad, it will dump fuel into the carb. What does happen if you close the idle screws? If it does not stumble/ stall you definitely have too much fuel going to the motor. If you have to turn the idle RPM set screw way up, it may be bypassing the idle circuit and going way rich. Just some thoughts... maybe you already checked all this.