New baby 1953 Merc

[bigd1101]

Been a while since I posted. Hope everyone is good. Anyway, just bought this car and I have a ton of questions.

1. I need to change the tranny fluid in the 53 but there seems to be some debate on what type to use as the type A the book says is no longer made. I guess all tranny fluids are NOT alike. Different resistance, how they affect the smoothness of shifting, etc. Some say type F is a good replacement, some don't, other brands are better that others.........

The 80 year old guy I bought the car from cannot remember what he used, and it's down about half at idle and I don't want to mix it, so I'm just going to drain it out and start from scratch and why I need some good advice.

2. The car has it's original flathead V-8. I did some minor tune up.....cleaned the spark plugs, the rotor tip, new clear fuel filter, fresh gas (high test) as the car on the way home from picking it up (40 miles away), died twice , but only at low speed start out. It's running a bit rough, and when you rev the engine, hesitates.

On the other side, the car cruised great at higher speeds, but like I said, when you stepped on it, it hesitated. Timing off? Coil? Two barrel Holly carb problem?

Anyway, the body and interior are show car grade.

Don

[Anteek29]

OMG - gorgeous Merc! The hesitation at acceleration most likely carb related. While looking down the carb you should see a stream of gas in each throat when you pump the accelerator linkage. If not, probably time for carb rebuild.

[dmsfrr]

Beautiful car!!!

The original Type A trans fluid was discontinued because of the whale oil in it. Replaced by what is now Dexron/Mercon.
Type F came around in the mid-60's for the 'newer' transmissions in Fords of that era and a bit later. Some folks use it in the older transmissions but the shifts may be too harsh and I'm not sure about the compatibility of it with older internal transmission parts.
The shop that rebuilt the Fordomatic for my '55 said to use the Mercon fluid.
.

[delco1946]

Use Dexron/Mercon. I did a lot of searching on these forums - lots of knowledgeable folks. I even had to "fight" the tranny rebuild shop on this - much to my dismay they used type F anyway. F does not = All Ford lol. Type F can work, but it shifts kinda hard (too hard IMO).

I've also asked my mechanic and folks on here - tranny fluids can mix fine despite the fact that mixing feels like sacrilege. If its low and you can't get around to replacing the existing fluid, I would just top it off with Dex/Merc - much better than letter it run too low.

[JimNNN]

On my most recent project it was a new coil that cleared up the intermittent rough idle, but mine isn't a flathead. You didn't mention choke but that might be the most logical place to start (is it a manual?)



Beautiful car! I love that paint color (is that what they call "coral"?) Also, you have a very nice garage. For some reason, I don't imagine most fordbarn people as having a garage that nice.

[mercman from oz]

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Very nice new purchase - 1953 Mercury Monterey Hardtop. Congratulations.

[Daves55Sedan]

Use Dexron/Mercon ATF.
I'd start with a carb overhaul.

[Lanny]

Thanks to mercman for enlarging the picture, to help show what
a beautiful car your '53 Monterey HT is. The colors really pop too.
you're very fortunate to have a rare survivor in that condition.




.

[mercman from oz]

Nice interior in 1953 Mercury Monterey.

[KULTULZ]

!!! ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL MERC !!!

How in the world did it survive the upstate NY salt belt ...

[bigd1101]

Thanks all..........so any Dexron/Mercon brand will do? I see that a lot of companied carry it......and a complete drain will cost me 9 quarts per the book?

Don

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

Thanks all..........so any Dexron/Mercon brand will do? ....
Don

I'm not sure the brand name matters too much, pick one you recognize or have used before and are comfortable with.

There seem to be a few different choices of improved/upgrade versions of Dexron/Mercon in some brands, which has me confused. So for lack of a better reason I picked a well known brand name in one of their lesser 'advanced' versions, since it was going in an old-school transmission.

The '55 owners manual I have shows 20.5 pints as the fluid capacity for the Fordomatic.
.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

Thanks all..........so any Dexron/Mercon brand will do? I see that a lot of companied carry it......and a complete drain will cost me 9 quarts per the book?

Don

That would probably include the Torque Converter.

[scicala]

There may be a torque converter drain plug on the engine side of the flywheel (flex plate). If there is one, it should be visible after removing the lower flywheel shield and rotating the engine to find it.

Sal

[Merc Cruzer]

Check other post : https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...43#post2027143

[rotorwrench]

There is some information here that is not altogether well thought out. Improper adjustment of the TV rod can make for harsh shifts. The type F was designed with all Borg Warner transmissions in mind since they are all similar. They used metallic clutches well up into the 60s and likely some into the 70s. Use Type F or not but Type F by itself will not make for harsher shifts. It will definitely not hurt the transmission. Drag racers use it for their modified powerglide transmissions. It will keep them from slipping under high torque situations. If the shifts are harsh then adjust the TV linkage to soften the shift a bit. This was the good thing about the old BW transmissions. They were adjustable without a shift kit.

Mixing is another thing that should be well thought out. If you mix anything other than type F with it and it will diminish the characteristics of it if that is what a person runs.

The other caveat is mixing mineral based oils with synthetic based oils. This can be very problematic for both types. They can lose some of the designed in lubricity. Synthetic blend motor oil was "tried out" for a time in aircraft engines and was discontinued due to excessive internal engine wear. I'd recommend staying all mineral or all synthetic to minimize possible problematic results.

[KULTULZ]

Again -

FOMOCO used TYPE A and TYPE A SUFFIX A same and/or similar to GM until FOMOCO began formulating there own fluids (used different friction materials than GM) beginning in 1959.

TYPE F was not introduced until the release of the 1968 model year. The friction material(s) was again changed. TYPE F will give a more firm shift used in friction materials it was not designed to be used with (good and/or bad results). It can be a plus or a negative as it depends on how an owner wants the car car to perform.

This car is a cream-puff and I would imagine the owner wants a nice easy shift with no delay between ranges. TYPE F ain't gonna get it.

IMO, the application needs an early DEXRON blend. A Syn will allow much less friction but may also not lubricate properly.

The use of aftermarket fluids is a crap-shoot. If GM still offers an early DEXRON or there is a refiner that blends to the exact period specification(s) then that is what should be considered for use.

And then there is the possibility of the trans never being serviced as the builder suggested and the new detergents wipes out the trans.

If the owner of that MERC took as good care of his wife as the car, she should have been a dead knock-out...

[KULTULZ]

For your viewing and reading enjoyment -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD4mznHm0xg

https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en...luid-md-3.html

[Merc Cruzer]

KULTULZ: If GM still offers an early DEXRON or there is a refiner that blends to the exact period specification(s) then that is what should be considered for use.

I am curious, what specific brand and type is your recommendation?

rotorwrench: I have found that lengthening the TV rod will soften the shift and visa versa. It appears that your recommendation would be Type F.

Question to you both: Any thoughts on the use of the Type A still available?

[KULTULZ]

Answered -

Stay away from anything now marked as TYPE A. It's only use I know of is dirt bikes gear boxes.

Whatever it is, it must come from a large and respected refiner.

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...ercon-atf.html


https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...ype-f-atf.html

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Answered -

Stay away from anything now marked as TYPE A. It's only use I know of is dirt bikes gear boxes.

Whatever it is, it must come from a large and respected refiner.

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...ercon-atf.html


https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...ype-f-atf.html

Thank you for the reply.

[Merc Cruzer]

Just wondering, if draining the pan and torque converter, (or maybe take the pan off and cleaning it too) is sufficient before replacing with Type F. Does it need to be flushed, and if to with what?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Just wondering, if draining the pan and torque converter, (or maybe take the pan off and cleaning it too) is sufficient before replacing with Type F. Does it need to be flushed, and if to with what?

IMO ...

A MANUAL FLUSH is the only acceptable way to perform a full service. Do not use a flush machine as who knows when it was last serviced and what type of fluid/residues lingers within it.

A complete drop and fill (incl conv) will most likely suffice (depending on service history and lubricant used) if you perform a pan drop and filter shortly afterwards.

A trans must be serviced on a regular basis. The fluid draws moisture out of the air (hygroscopic) breaking it down and detergents also wear down.

Unless you have a temp gauge and possibly a cooler, who knows what heat it is exposed to.

This is IMO only as I am a detail nut (CDO in correct alphabetical sequence for OCD).

[delco1946]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

KULTULZ: If GM still offers an early DEXRON or there is a refiner that blends to the exact period specification(s) then that is what should be considered for use.

I am curious, what specific brand and type is your recommendation?

rotorwrench: I have found that lengthening the TV rod will soften the shift and visa versa. It appears that your recommendation would be Type F.

Rotorwrench said it in their opinion type F would not hurt - I wouldn't say that's an endorsement. I think most are recommending Dex/Merc.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by delco1946

Rotorwrench said it in their opinion type F would not hurt - I wouldn't say that's an endorsement. I think most are recommending Dex/Merc.

Synthetic blend motor oil was "tried out" for a time in aircraft engines and was discontinued due to excessive internal engine wear. I'd recommend staying all mineral or all synthetic to minimize possible problematic results.

Isn't Dex/Merc synthetic or is it all mineral?

[KULTULZ]

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Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Isn't Dex/Merc synthetic or is it all mineral?

Always read the PDS - Specs -

Chevron Automatic Transmission Fluid MD-3 is a passenger car and light truck automatic transmission fluid for most pre-2006 automatic transmissions built by General Motors, Ford Motor Company and other makes requiring a high-performance, multi-purpose, power transmission fluid.It is formulated with premium, severely hydro-processed base stocks and additives that helps provide oxidation and thermal stability, friction control, load-carrying ability, corrosion and wear protection. It helps protect against the formation of deposits, sludge, varnish, and foam

Kinda makes you wonder about JIFFY-LUBE doesn't it ...

[KULTULZ]

And to add to the confusion -

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/choo...rformance-car/

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Does it need to be flushed, and if to with what?

Overlooked this one -

If flushing, you would use the ATF you are going to fill it with, in this case TYPE F which is still available from FORD so you know it has not been adulterated.

[rotorwrench]

I find it hard to "recommend" any lubricant on a forum such as this so I don't do it anymore. Folks that want to do the research should do it themselves and make their own decisions on these matters.

I will reiterate one thing that can not be overlooked. The original type A and B will never be available again due to what was used to blend it. Whale oil is not available in the USA. It's as simple as that. Dexron II and Ford Type F were attempts to develop products that would do the job for their power trains without the use of whale oil. They needed a replacement in the 1968 to 73 time frame so this was the results they came up with. Another result was the added red dye.

[KULTULZ]

I thought we went through the whale oil discussion a few weeks ago. Whale oil has nothing to do with modern lubricants.

As for recommending, I do not do that either (not anywhere qualified). If a question is asked I will point to information. It is up to the reader to decide how he wants to proceed.

Now why would ATF be dyed red?

[Merc Cruzer]

KULTULZ and rotorwrench ,

Thank you both for your insights, comments and suggestions.

I have made a decision to go with the Type F, (selection of the brand is a whole other story) and flush the system and refill with new, then watch it closely for any difference in shifting performance.

I have to admit, sometimes, after reading the latest posts each morning, I wonder why why anyone would ever take their car out of the garage. But then I remember my parents taking me from Michigan to Wyoming, for vacation in the same car I own now, with out issues.

Life is a series of decisions, and owning a classic car provides you with an unending supply!

[KULTULZ]

Please consider ATF as to quality, not price.

[KULTULZ]

From This Thread - Post #13

- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296151

... transmissions ran smoothly and reliably using whale oil in lubricating fluids, as long as engine coolant temperatures ran below 173 degrees F. Fortunately for the whales, by the 1970s engines became subject to tighter emissions regulations and engineers had to design them to run hotter.

Other demands such as front-wheel-drive and ever-increased emissions limits boosted the operating temperatures of engines to well over 200 degrees F, forcing research efforts into synthetic lubricants and rendering the use of whale oil (really an ester, not an oil) obsolete.

The Endangered Species Act of 1972, followed by an "indefinite moratorium" set in 1986 protects those whales remaining. Only the Japanese and Norwegians still kill whales for meat. While our society now looks at this senseless killing as; well, senseless and selfish, think of how you might have felt about driving a 50s or 60s-era car with an automatic transmission or locking differential if you had known that large numbers of whales had to die for your convenience. It isn't a pretty story, is it?

INFO SOURCE - http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/725.cfm

So whale oil (or lack thereof) is not a factor in modern lubricant. Whale oil was used for it's anti-corrosive properties.

[Merc Cruzer]

What is the actual "mineral oil" used now?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

What is the actual "mineral oil" used now?

Group II oils are distinguished from less refined Group I by their higher purity, low levels of sulfur, nitrogen and aromatics, and superior oxidation stability. Pure Group II base oil is actually clear as water – it’s the additives that give finished motor oil its darker color. Group I oils are not suitable for applications requiring premium base oils, and their use is steadily declining. Group II oils can be substituted for many Group I applications. The base oils in these Groups (I and II) are typically referred to as “mineral conventional base oils.”

READ MORE - https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en...-the-base.html

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

READ MORE - https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en...-the-base.html

Thank you, that was not only informative but also interesting.

[cokefirst]

The argument about the correct fluid or the correct oil is something that will never be resolved. I once was the tech editor for a classic ford club. I had the question come up in the early 70's. Not knowing my rear end from a hole in the ground, I contacted an automotive lubricant engineer at Chevron. He gave m all kinds of information on friction modifiers and other technical information that I only partially understood. His bottom line is, that the closest current fluid to Type A, Suffix A is the Dexron fluid. It has been several years since I got the information but it is my understanding that the Dexron II, III, IV etc is till the best fluid to use. Anecdotally, several people have said they use type F and some were Ford garage techs. Type F does not stand for Ford any more than Type A stands for American Motors. It was simply a spec. The only thing I remember from the conversation with the engineer is that the type F allows for a sharper shift due to those friction modifiers. How the work, I have no clue. I use the Dexron in my cars and will continue to do so until I hear from someone with the oils engineering background that there is something better.

[Merc Cruzer]

I am starting to feel bad for bigd1101 = Don, all he wanted to do was change his transmission fluid. He was thinking I will buy a 53' Mercury, they are simpler to maintain.

[KULTULZ]

The main problem is people believing information that was current in the fifties. It would be akin to a brain surgeon relying on medical information from the fifties.

It is not that hard to figure.

Original manufacturers licenses have expired FORD-GM-MOPAR-FOREIGN) (except for FORD TYPE F) and you have snake oil peddlers saying one fluid fits all. Nothing farther from the truth. As for a trans shop, one may have completely different thoughts and experiences from another. Most draw fluid from a single drum except for current tech (hopefully).

The fluid being discussed here (CHEVRON in this case) is a fluid that is neither DEXRON (GM) or FORD (MERCON) exact but a blend that will hopefully work in either application.

None are licensed and/or approved by auto manufacturers. FORD used GM A and DEXRONS until 1959 when they began to blend their own.

It is either that are go to approved back fill synthetics. If it will be a complete flush and just not add or pan drop, I would go with the synthetic. But that is just me, your mileage may vary.

TYPE F was a culmination of oils produced by FOMOCO beginning in 1959 and ending with TYPE G and H.

I feel sorry for the OP also. But chances are the trans is due for a rebuild anyway.

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

I am starting to feel bad for bigd1101 = Don, all he wanted to do was change his transmission fluid. He was thinking I will buy a 53' Mercury, they are simpler to maintain.

LOL! I ran into this same confusion on the Model A here on all kinds of subjects. I always take advice with a grain of salt anyway. I take a "poll" from you all and which ever product/repair/maintenance subject gets the most thumbs up, I usually go with that.

This subject......I'm going with the Dex/Merc stuff, draining the tranny/torque converter, putting in the new stuff, driving away into the sunset.

BTW, the 80 year old former owner said the tranny "was gone over entirely" and by the looks of the car, I believe him.

Don

[rotorwrench]

When I went looking for replacement fluids and lubricants for my 1956 Ford 850 tractor some years ago, I ran in to the same thing. Lots of difference from on person to the other. I've been doing my own research ever since.

Any fluid or lubricant is better than none at all. The days of the old whale oil ATF, GL-3 gear lube, and easily sourced single viscosity motor oils are long gone.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

LOL! I ran into this same confusion on the Model A here on all kinds of subjects. I always take advice with a grain of salt anyway. I take a "poll" from you all and which ever product/repair/maintenance subject gets the most thumbs up, I usually go with that.

This subject......I'm going with the Dex/Merc stuff, draining the tranny/torque converter, putting in the new stuff, driving away into the sunset.

BTW, the 80 year old former owner said the tranny "was gone over entirely" and by the looks of the car, I believe him.

Don

I will be interested to know, if you notice any difference, in shifting and performance, after changing the fluid.

[Merc Cruzer]

When did they start putting filters in transmissions? The Merc-O-Matic, doesn't have a filter in the transmission.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

When did they start putting filters in transmissions? The Merc-O-Matic, doesn't have a filter in the transmission.

You mean your MERC-O-MATIC doesn't have one?

B9MP on the below chart is for a mid-case.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NOTE (Fr. for NOT) -

Incorrect entry- B9MP is for the 1955/ mid-case.

B9AP 7A098-B Is for the 1951/59 F/M (3S)

(Above shown in ILL below - 1949-1959 FORD PASS CAR MPC - Also used in 55/57 BIRD and FORD HP)

BASIC PN 7A098 replaces earlier BASIC PN 77488 used in the earlier MERC and LINC Chassis Catalogs.

... whew ...

Glad I finally figured all that out. I need a beer.

[rotorwrench]

They are a cleanable screen, they didn't have replaceable filters like they do in the more modern era. If a lot of metal gets generated due to a clutch or bearing failure then they get all kinds of crap past the screen and into the system. Cleaning all that out of a valve body is not an easy task.

[KULTULZ]

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You don't clean them, you replace them. No way to get all the crud out.

Shown below -

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You mean your MERC-O-MATIC doesn't have one?

B9MP on the below chart is for a mid-case,

Thank you, I wasn't coming up with a number for the filter only the gasket. They are still available on e-bay, as a kit with "O" rings the pan gasket.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15437105901...733b00e67b8533

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

I wasn't coming up with a number for the filter only the gasket. They are still available on e-bay, as a kit with "O" rings the pan gasket.

Exactly what model year is your MERC?

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by kultulz

exactly what model year is your merc?

1953 - Her birthday was, Wednesday, August 26, she was the 149th car for that day, in LA, California.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

1953 - Her birthday was, Wednesday, August 26, she was the 149th car for that day, in LA, California.

THANX for that. I guess what I really need to know is if the power-train is original? Is it a flatty and AT?

For some reason I had 56 MERC caught in my mind. Don't order the filter kit yet.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

THANX for that. I guess what I really need to know is if the power-train is original? Is it a flatty and AT?

For some reason I had 56 MERC caught in my mind. Don't order the filter kit yet.

Completely original Flathead and Merc-O-Matic.

I will wait to hear back from you, before I order the kit.

Thanks

[rotorwrench]

Lycoming engines have come with oil screens for years. Clean them every 25-hours & no problems. Replace if you want but it's not absolutely necessary as long as a person knows how to clean them. What ever gets through a screen will come back out.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Completely original Flathead and Merc-O-Matic.

OK, I got nervous and jerky thinking you went to a later drive-train. Old Man Jitters.

Any-who, the actual mid-case was not introduced until the 1955 model run. The trans MERC used before was the small case but was named the MERC-O-MATIC for their advertising reasons.

The ad you showed threw me also as it says 1952-53 and 56. I see where a small case may have been used in some 56 MERC's. Let's just hope the kit it is quality.

I was never really interested in anything much before 1957 so bear with me.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

OK, I got nervous and jerky thinking you went to a later drive-train. Old Man Jitters.

Any-who, the actual mid-case was not introduced until the 1955 model run. The trans MERC used before was the small case but was named the MERC-O-MATIC for their advertising reasons.

The ad you showed threw me also as it says 1952-53 and 56. I see where a small case may have been used in some 56 MERC's. Let's just hope the kit it is quality.

I was never really interested in anything much before 1957 so bear with me.

Thanks for the update.

Now I remember why I was having an issue with the screen filter. The book assigns it a number (77488) but when to go to look up the number, it doesn't exist, it jumps right over the number. I have had that issue with other parts too.

[KULTULZ]

LINC-MERC used basically the same PN SYSTEM during this period as FORD. Some BASIC PN's were the same as FORD, some were unique to the LM car lines. FORD began the P&A SYSTEM in 1959 and LM was brought into FORD after the demise of the EDSEL (1960) (MEL).

You will not find any references to that cataloging today as everything was superseded or changed.

Early Case MERC-O-MATIC Filter/Screen - 1P 77748-A

You will find BPN 77748 later in sequence as it is a five character BASIC PN (the 5th character being an expansion number) in the MERC-O-MATIC AT section. I doubt you would find a NOS and everything now is outside vendor

[rotorwrench]

Kultulz knows his Ford part numbers. I'm pretty sure the small case air cooled transmission was used up until early in 1959 for certain light duty applications while many of them were changed over to radiator cooling in 1956. The superseded number is dropped from the parts line if a new numbered part shows up.

Some of the numbers were Borg Warner numbers too so that can cloud the issue some. Fatsco and likely several other suppliers have the screens but I don't know what their part number may be.

The latest OEM part number I could find is B9AP7A098B but there a more in the aftermarket range that don't resemble any of the old OEM numbers.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Kultulz knows his Ford part numbers. I'm pretty sure the small case air cooled transmission was used up until early in 1959 for certain light duty applications while many of them were changed over to radiator cooling in 1956. The superseded number is dropped from the parts line if a new numbered part shows up.

Some of the numbers were Borg Warner numbers too so that can cloud the issue some. Fatsco and likely several other suppliers have the screens but I don't know what their part number may be.

The latest OEM part number I could find is B9AP7A098B but there a more in the aftermarket range that don't resemble any of the old OEM numbers.

Thank you for the additional information.

[KULTULZ]

FORD-O-MATIC HISTORY - 1951-55 and 1955/

In 1948, Ford realized it was late in introducing a fully automatic transmission to its automobile lineup. Ford initially approached Studebaker to purchase rights to use the DG-series automatic developed by the Detroit Gear division of Borg-Warner. The Studebaker board of directors was agreeable, but stipulated that Studebaker would have one year exclusive use of the design before Ford could use it. Since the DG was available in Studebaker cars in mid-1950, this meant that Ford would have to wait until mid-1951 to introduce an automatic.

The wait was unacceptable, so Ford went a different direction. Ford Engineering Vice President Harold Youngren, recently hired away from Borg-Warner, recommended that Ford license and build a transmission using a design he was working on at his previous employer.

Ford and the Warner Gear division of Borg-Warner signed a contract in 1948 which entered B-W into a supply agreement wherein they would build half of Ford's transmissions for five years, with the other half either being built by Ford or by a different supplier. Because of this agreement, Ford licensed the design themselves and broke ground immediately on an assembly plant to build the remaining transmissions. The new plant, called Fairfax Transmission Plant, was dedicated in 1950.

The original Ford-O-Matic accomplished two things that Ford's two previous automatic transmissions failed to do. Through the use of an integrated torque converter and planetary gearset, Ford's automatic shifted smoothly without an interruption in torque from the engine. The other was the shifting pattern, revised from PNDLR to PRNDL, which served to reduce "shift shock" when changing gears and reduce "torque shock" when trying to rock a stuck car back and forth.

The original Ford-O-Matic, while capable of three forward speeds, started out in second and shifted to third, with first only being used when selecting L on the gear shift column.[4] However, if floored from a standing start, it would immediately shift from second to low then shift back to second and then third as the vehicle accelerated. The Ford-O-Matic was manufactured from 1951 until it was replaced by the C4 in 1964.[2]

Ultimately the transmission Ford licensed to build from Warner Gear/B-W was less expensive to build than the Detroit Gear/B-W unit that Ford had initially sought to license from Studebaker. When Studebaker ran into financial difficulty in the mid-1950s, Studebaker turned to Ford and licensed the less expensive Ford-O-Matic, rebranded it as the Flight-O-Matic, and dropped the DG transmission from its line-up.

SOURCE - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise-O-Matic

So there is the early history and explains the 1951-54 and 1955/ differences.

No BW vendor numbers as FORD actually owned the trans unlike the BW manual transmissions.

[Merc Cruzer]

KULTULZ,

Thanks, I am getting a better feel for the trans with each passing post. It appears, the Ford-O-Matic and the Merc-O-Matic were the same from 51'-53'. Later the Merc-O-Matic got a larger case and a different valve body, due to increased HP.

[KULTULZ]

Correct - 1955 the game changed somewhat. FORD was allowed to do its' own engineering at that point and I guess corrected some of the original BW design. I always thought the 1951-1960 F/M was the same basic unit. Like I said, I never really got into pre-1957 so this was a learning exercise for myself also.

- Any ID TAG beginning with 1P was the early F/M (MODEL YEAR 1951 THRU 1954).

- 1955/ ID began with a four character prefix, similar to a PART NO prefix.

- EDIT - Above not quite true/concise - Detail to follow.


***********************************************

Now there is a continuation to this as FORD supposedly bought out the BW design and came out with the FMX for the 1968 model year.

OH! While you are under the car, can you try and measure just the main case length?

This will give me closure ...

EDIT -

Main Case Size Chart Shown Below (Hopefully)

...G-R-R-R-R

One of these days I may get my act together. Look for upcoming EDIT - PART 2

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Lycoming engines have come with oil screens for years. Clean them every 25-hours & no problems. Replace if you want but it's not absolutely necessary as long as a person knows how to clean them. What ever gets through a screen will come back out.

Is that a flat screen? Would be easier to clean that the AT screen being discussed here. And is any varnish present?

A TRANS OVERHAUL possibility because of a cheap filter repl during a trans service is not an option in my book.

[rotorwrench]

Ford's licensing deal with Borg Warner only lasted 5 years. Ford wasn't the only company to use BW designs before or after that time frame. The Cruise-O-Matic came about because Ford hired a previous engineer from BW.

A screen can be cleaned easily no mater what shape it is. Some do require special chemicals in an untrasonic bath but they are generally used in aircraft turbine engines.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Correct - 1955 the game changed somewhat. FORD was allowed to do its' own engineering at that point and I guess corrected some of the original BW design. I always thought the 1951-1960 F/M was the same basic unit. Like I said, I never really got into pre-1957 so this was a learning exercise for myself also.

- Any ID TAG beginning with 1P was the early F/M.

- 1955/ ID began with a four character prefix, similar to a PART NO prefix.

- EDIT - Above not quite true/concise - Detail to follow.


***********************************************

Now there is a continuation to this as FORD supposedly bought out the BW design and came out with the FMX for the 1968 model year.

OH! While you are under the car, can you try and measure just the main case length?

This will give me closure ...

EDIT -

Main Case Size Chart Shown Below (Hopefully)

...G-R-R-R-R

One of these days I may get my act together. Look for upcoming EDIT - PART 2

Here is a shot to my transmission ID tag.(9-109367) Would there be another tag? It doesn't seem to follow the part/model numbers you have.

The length of just the main case, is 10 1/4 "(medium case - 14 hole pan - the case is cast iron). The tail piece, is 18" in length.

[I"]The Ford-O-Matic was manufactured in three different case sizes. It was initially offered in both small-case from 1951-'60 and medium-case from 1951-'68 (often referred to as the Merc-O-Matic); large-case versions were also used in 1958-'65 Lincolns."
[/I]

When I get around to changing the fluid, I will get additional shots of the "screen" and the valve body area.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Here is a shot to my transmission ID tag.(9-109367) Would there be another tag? It doesn't seem to follow the part/model numbers you have.
...

Your first photo above..... the same problem I had trying to confirm the ID of mine.
The actual ID letters/numbers were stenciled onto the left side of that oval plate with red paint in the rectangular silver box, but that's all gone now. It should look more like this poor example below...

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Your first photo above..... the same problem I had trying to confirm the ID of mine.
The actual ID letters/numbers were stenciled onto the left side of that oval plate with red paint in the rectangular silver box, but that's all gone now. It should look more like this poor example below...

So the more information we have the less we know.

Very interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJSL2r9bInA

[KULTULZ]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Now I remember why I was having an issue with the screen filter. The book assigns it a number (77488) but when to go to look up the number, it doesn't exist, it jumps right over the number. I have had that issue with other parts too.

The screen is located (MERC CHASSIS CATALOG) in the 7000 SECTION after the FOUR CHARACTER BPN (Basic Part No) lineup. The screen is ID'd by a FIVE CHARACTER BPN but within that same catalog section. If you go further in that section, you will find the listing.

[KULTULZ]

OK ....

More bad news. The ID PLATE has been altered by a re-builder. That is a SERIAL NO and how they keep track of the trans they go through. Hopefully it is the OEM install and not an exchange.

As for case measurement, there is a chart below that shows the case lengths. Follow it very carefully as to measurement.

[KULTULZ]

Now that the clouds are dissipating ... ... awful fancy word ...

I owe you an apology. For some strange reason (CRS most likely), I have confused you with another member here, Dobie Gillis.

You included a photo attachment in an earlier post and that car is absolutely beautiful. I hope MERCMAN FROM OZ reads this and blows the photo up so we can see more detail.

[Dobie Gillis]

Well I do own a Merc but it's a '55, not a '53.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

OK ....

More bad news. The ID PLATE has been altered by a re-builder. That is a SERIAL NO and how they keep track of the trans they go through. Hopefully it is the OEM install and not an exchange.

As for case measurement, there is a chart below that shows the case lengths. Follow it very carefully as to measurement.

Is the chart I posted (#63), showing a 10 1/4 in case, not for Fords?

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Your first photo above..... the same problem I had trying to confirm the ID of mine.
The actual ID letters/numbers were stenciled onto the left side of that oval plate with red paint in the rectangular silver box, but that's all gone now. It should look more like this poor example below...

Are the numbers on your ID plate similar to mine?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Is the chart I posted (#63), showing a 10 1/4 in case, not for Fords?

I was not concise, sorry.

The main case only is measured. There is a small extension between the main case and extension housing that is not included in the measurement.

Look at the ILL closely. If it is truly a small case, you know you have the correct period trans.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Are the numbers on your ID plate similar to mine?

. I9-1872S2 . It's an air cooled Fordomatic that came in a '55 T-Bird I bought a while back.
Might be original to the car, or not, the engine wasn't.
.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I was not concise, sorry.

The main case only is measured. There is a small extension between the main case and extension housing that is not included in the measurement.

Look at the ILL closely. If it is truly a small case, you know you have the correct period trans.

Okay, just trying to get a handle on this, were only the small cases used for Fords & Mercurys from 51-53?

In the Hemmings article (https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...c-transmission) it states:

The Ford-O-Matic was manufactured in three different case sizes. It was initially offered in both small-case from 1951-'60 and medium-case from 1951-'68 (often referred to as the Merc-O-Matic); large-case versions were also used in 1958-'65 Lincolns.


If the article is accurate, I am guessing I could have the "medium" case, since it is a Merc-O-Matic. I will jack the car up again tomorrow (with a jack stand in place) and remeasure just to be sure of my initial measurement.

Any information on the IP-7000-N, that was only use in Mercury in 1953, per the parts manual. Was this a small case trans?

Would there be any other tags or identification numbers, on or stamped on the case?

[KULTULZ]

The HEMMINGS ARTICLE is inaccurate (as a lot of TECH ARTICLES are).

I too thought the mid-case was introduced early but the MPC states otherwise. You would need the years discussed AT WSM to actually nail it down.

Look at the attached chart -

There was no need for a stronger trans (IMO) until the 292 was introduced in 1955.

Would there be any other tags or identification numbers, on or stamped on the case?

There may be CASTING ID CODES and/or CASTING DATE CODES. Anything you see with numbers record.

MERC-O-MATIC 1951-1954 was a MERC DIV advertising description.

[rotorwrench]

Mercury, Thunderbird, and Lincoln cars were the first ones to use the medium case Ford-O-Matic/Merc-O-Matic/Turbo Drive for 1955. They wanted heavier duty drive train for the Mercury & T-bird. Lincolns had larger engines so the application was called the Turbo Drive using the bell housing for the 341 initially followed by the 368. The large case transmission came on line in 1958 for larger displacement applications like the 430 MEL.

FoMoCo did use the GM Hydramatic for the 337 initially in 1949. I don't think they wanted to but they likely had plans to change before the big fire at the GM plant in Livonia back in 53. This set GM and other manufacturers that depended on the 4-speed Hydramatic back till they could crank back up at the old Willow Run B-24 plant. I'm sure this helped Ford develope a follow on transmission to avoid such things in the future.

Rambler and Studebaker/Packard used similar design transmissions for some time as well but they differed a good bit from the ones Ford used since they had different engines and so on.

The 1955 thru 57 T-birds show to use the medium case transmission. The early ones through 1957 were all single range units. Most Ford cars didn't get the medium case transmision till 1957. The T-bird is the exception.

[KULTULZ]

More Info Below - incl 1951-53 FORD APP CHART

1P-7003-N used in both FORD and MERC.

I am beginning to think those modified TRANS ID TAGS were used by AUTHORIZED FORD RE-MANUFACTURERS used during this and later periods.

[Merc Cruzer]

The "X" frame, used on the convertibles makes it a bit difficult to get a thorough look at the trans. Project for the day is, to employ a mirror, and see what I can find, along with seeing how close to 9 7/8", the case of my trans is.

***********************

It definitely helps to walk in with a known measurement. Upon remeasuring, the case and only the case, is in deed 9 7/8", in length.

The only other casting mark I found, with the aid of a lit mirror, was a raised "W 12", cast into the top of the case.

Thanks for all your help. Now if I can find a picture of an original ID tag for these transmissions, I need something to compare to mine.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

The "X" frame, used on the convertibles makes it a bit difficult to get a thorough look at the trans. Project for the day is, to employ a mirror, and see what I can find, along with seeing how close to 9 7/8", the case of my trans is.

***********************

It definitely helps to walk in with a known measurement. Upon remeasuring, the case and only the case, is in deed 9 7/8", in length.

The only other casting mark I found, with the aid of a lit mirror, was a raised "W 12", cast into the top of the case.

Thanks for all your help. Now if I can find a picture of an original ID tag for these transmissions, I need something to compare to mine.

I am glad the measurement came out correct as if it was a larger case, that means the car would have a later trans in it.

I enjoy the hell out of threads as this one as I either learn something new or it shakes a few cobwebs loose.

EDIT -

Check Here For Possible Tag Repro -

https://www.martiauto.com/tags.cfm


Generic tag shown below -

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I am glad the measurement came out correct as if it was a larger case, that means the car would have a later trans in it.

I enjoy the hell out of threads as this one as I either learn something new or it shakes a few cobwebs loose.

EDIT -

Check Here For Possible Tag Repro -

https://www.martiauto.com/tags.cfm


Generic tag shown below -

I wonder if anyone is still producing them?

[Merc Cruzer]

Trying to fine a quality gasket/filter kit. So far this seems to be the only game in town:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38411381192...Cclp%3A2563228

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Trying to fine a quality gasket/filter kit. So far this seems to be the only game in town:

ATP is a quality product. - STRIKE THAT STATEMENT -

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

ATP is a quality product.

Thanks, having never used then previously, I wasn't sure.

[KULTULZ]

Big Company, where most of TRANS SHOPS source their inventory.

************************************************** ***

EDIT

Used to be. Cannot tell the difference between an early FM and C6.

[rotorwrench]

I haven't seen any reproduction tags yet. I've seen very few that are still legible for the number other than the serial that is stamped. A person has to go by characteristics for these old units. Most of the small case units have the same or similar cast iron main case. The bell housings were by application but are replaceable. There are likely tail housing applications as well. Each variant has it's own number for the assembly part number. The flathead V8 applications had a lot of similarity but the early ones had some problem points that were upgraded or improved over time. The upgrades can be retrofitted at overhaul for the most part but there aren't all that many for the first three years of production.

[Ford56]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Your new-to-you new car is gorgeous. Love that color and interior. Beautiful.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

More bad news. The ID PLATE has been altered by a re-builder.

That is a SERIAL NO and how they keep track of the trans they go through. Hopefully it is the OEM install and not an exchange.

... uh ... WRONG AGAIN! ...

Look closely at the ID PLATE and the SERIAL NO. That is the SERIAL NO of the actual trans. Below are tags from both the FORD and BW built trans -

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I haven't seen any reproduction tags yet.

You don't know until you try ...

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

... uh ... WRONG AGAIN! ...

Look closely at the ID PLATE and the SERIAL NO. That is the SERIAL NO of the actual trans. Below are tags from both the FORD and BW built trans -

Soooo 9-109367, just might be my original serial number . So now if I can find a repo vin tag I could make a new one, using my original numbers.

Sounds like a project.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Soooo 9-109367, just might be my original serial number . So now if I can find a repo vin tag I could make a new one, using my original numbers.
Sounds like a project.

Mercury may have done things differently than Ford in '53 but I doubt that's the last several digits of the serial number of the vehicle. Just the transmission serial number.
In general, Ford didn't put the vehicle serial number on the driveline parts in the mid to late 50's.

If you're looking for the VIN / serial number of the car it's often stamped into the frame. On a mid to late 50's Ford it's usually on the top of the right front frame rail, somewhere between the firewall and front bumper, sometimes on the cross member under the front of the engine.
Don't know at all what Mercury did in '53, it may be on the left side or ???

The original serial number plate for "1952-54 MERCURY Models: Stamped on a plate on right front door pillar"

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...9VINdecode.htm

.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Look closely at the ID PLATE and the SERIAL NO. That is the SERIAL NO of the actual trans. Below are tags from both the FORD and BW built trans -

... uh ...

That will be the SERIAL NO. of the TRANS ASSY, not a partial VIN.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Okay, just trying to get a handle on this, were only the small cases used for Fords & Mercurys from 51-53?

If the article is accurate, I am guessing I could have the "medium" case, since it is a Merc-O-Matic. I will jack the car up again tomorrow (with a jack stand in place) and remeasure just to be sure of my initial measurement.

If you want to determine if you have a small case or a meduim case Ford-O-Matic, you have already answered your own question by looking at the illustrations of the pan gaskets in your own post of 6/25 at 11am.
If your trans has a single "bumpout" in the trans fluid pan, you have the small-case. But if it bumps out and bumps back in again, it is a medium case. This is the easiest way to tell which one you have.
Also, the Medium case transmission pans had a separate drain plug, so you didn't need to unscrew the dipstick tube to drain the fluid. Not sure when they started that extra drain plug, but they had it at least by 1954.

[Daves55Sedan]

As far as the fluid filter screen goes, my understanding is that the fluid is sucked into the screen from the fluid in the pan, therefore, any metal shavings or impurities will be laying in the bottom of the pan and/or on top of the filter screen (which is facing up) and is submerged in fluid.
So in order to clean the screen properly, a solvent should be sprayed into one of the tubing holes while the screen is facing downwards. The other tubing hole should be blocked off with a thumb or some other means so that clean solvent can only escape through the screen. Doing this will force solvent through the screen and clean the outside of the screen.
I've never seen one of these filter screens so bad it couldn't be salvaged by a proper cleaning.
I do NOT recommend dunking the whole filter screen in a container full of solvent, as this may allow impurities and/or metal shavings stuck to the outside of the screen to get inside the screen and defeat the purpose of the cleaning process.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

The Ford-O-Matic was manufactured in three different case sizes. It was initially offered in both small-case from 1951-'60 and medium-case from 1951-'68 (often referred to as the Merc-O-Matic); large-case versions were also used in 1958-'65 Lincolns."

SOURCE OF ABOVE EXCERPT - https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...c-transmission

The TECH WRITER that wrote this article was misinformed or didn't thoroughly do his research. There was no mid-case FM until the 1955 model year.

It is references such as these that keep THE OLD WIVES TALES continuing. That includes the GREAT ATF DEBATES one sees constantly.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

As far as the fluid filter screen goes, my understanding is that the fluid is sucked into the screen from the fluid in the pan, therefore, any metal shavings or impurities will be laying in the bottom of the pan and/or on top of the filter screen (which is facing up) and is submerged in fluid.

So in order to clean the screen properly, a solvent should be sprayed into one of the tubing holes while the screen is facing downwards ...

Look closely at the filter Dave. It has a sheet metal bottom. Only GOD knows (and the guy that services it) what is laying there baked on.

Why would anyone try and clean this filter if a quality new w/ gasket is available for seventeen bucks? I surely wouldn't clean one and stick it back in there if it was mine or a customers.

You can't charge a customer to service a screen if a new one is available.

And that also goes for oil bath air cleaners and oil cartridge filters. All of that is long gone.

[Merc Cruzer]

NOS screen, top and bottom

[KULTULZ]

CONTINUATION of POST #75

TEXT SOURCE - https://www.ctci.org/fordomatic-tran...dentification/

The first Cruise-o-matic (C/M) 3 three speed dual range transmissions were built in 1958. During 1958/59 their were twelve different applications of the C/M transmission. Most if not all can be adapted to the 55-57 Thunderbirds. The shifter lever must be correct, the output shaft housing must be the correct length and the bolt pattern to the bell housing must be as follows. Top holes 8″ from center to center, bottom holes 11″ center to center and bottom to top 5 5/8″ center to center.

In 1960, 61, 62 the C/M transmission was not available. The following transmissions were available FM, FM 2, FX light duty, MX heavy duty. Most of which could be adapted to the 1955-57 Thundebirds.

In 1963 the C/M reappeared in the 1963 Thunderbirds it had a vacuum modulator to promote a smoother shift. 1963 was the last year the C/M transmissions were used.

The terms FORD-O-MATIC and CRUISE-O-MATIC were descriptive advertising names for FORD AT during that time period. Variations incl. MERC-O-MATIC and TURBO-DRIVE among others.

See Chart From 1960/64 MPC Below-

The DUAL RANGE CM was introduced in 1958. The throttle valve (1951-1960) was replaced with a vacuum modulator valve on the 1961 model run.

The DUAL RANGE (Green Dot) C4 and C6 were also referred to as CRUISE-O-MATIC during this period. It was a marketing term.

SELECT-SHIFT (P-R-N-D-L) began phasing in on the some 1966 models and most everything was SELECT-SHIFT by 1969-70.

The FMX was a complete redesign (FM-FX-MX) after FOMOCO bought all rights from BW (1968). It is basically a MX stuffed into an FX case. The rear pump was eliminated to make the room for the internals. The FMX was continued in use as FOMOCO could not keep up with C4/C6 production. It is a strong transmission.

You can see how different writers can easily confuse a not so confusing subject.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

NOS screen, top and bottom

Not to mention if the screen was not cleansed properly, say in a sonic cleaner, any missed debris/varnish would be carried into the trans as the detergent packages on more modern ATF is much stronger.

[Merc Cruzer]

Does anyone have a nice close up picture of the correct ID tag used on the 53' Ford/Mercury automatic transmissions?

Thank you,

My collection of photos so far:

Brown one - 50's Ford

Red on is 57' Ford

Green one is 60' Lincoln

[rotorwrench]

The ones I've seen are the red type and the application number is large so that it fits the space there better. All was painted on except the serial number. That's why they don't last. Some have a casting number on the case but they are a case number. The 1P-N and 1P-P versions were used on both 239 and 255 applications in 1953 and the linear alpha change was likely done for either a small internal change, a date of manufacture change, or a place of manufacture change but I cant tell you with any certainty which applies. The 1st data plate in the post above is very close in arrangement to the 1P-7000 series. It has the model number first (example 1P-7000-N), the 3-digit date code, month/week/last digit of year are there. The serial will tell you a little bit. The first digits before the hyphen designate the plant code. A "2", "6", or "10" prefix indicates Cincinnati plant by FoMoCo. A"1", "5", or "9" prefix designates Warner Gear Division. The linear serial number started at 10001 followed by 10002 and so on. This information comes from the 1953 dated revision of the Merc-O-Matic transmission repair and adjustment manual.

I can't say they are all red but the ones I've seen are. There is a history of changing colors so nothing would surprise me about that. The manual photos are black and white so there is no help there.

You might try this place for a tag restoration.
http://www.datatags.com/

There may be others that do this but some may only do quantity instead of one offs for new plates.

[Merc Cruzer]

rotorwrench,,

Thanks for the update. Now at least I know my transmission came form the Warner Gear Division plant. One more piece of the puzzle.

If I can find a good enough one, I can make a decal that will go over the original plate. That, with a couple of coats of clear, and it should look like it just came from the factory.

I know the tag place you are referring to, they did my vin tag, and it looks new.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Does anyone have a nice close up picture of the correct ID tag used on the 53' Ford/Mercury automatic transmissions?

Here is a xerox of a '55 small case Ford-O-Matic tag, but it was xeroxed in black and white. The actual paint color is red.
I also have a '53 Ford small case Ford-O-Matic transmission on the garage floor that I could take a digital photo of if you think it would help, but I don't think there's much difference.

Xmission-tag.pdf

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Look closely at the filter Dave. It has a sheet metal bottom. Only GOD knows (and the guy that services it) what is laying there baked on.
Why would anyone try and clean this filter if a quality new w/ gasket is available for seventeen bucks? I surely wouldn't clean one and stick it back in there if it was mine or a customers.
And that also goes for oil bath air cleaners and oil cartridge filters. All of that is long gone.

I've done my own ATF, and pan gasket changes in the past. The last couple times I did it, the pan gasket was readily available by itself, but a kit including the filter screen was not offered. No problem though, screen was like new after cleaning as I had described. I even tried to get the filter separately but they didn't have it.
Oil bath air cleaners gone now? I am still using the original oil-bath air cleaners on both my '55 sedan 272, 2-bbl and my '55 Courier 223, single bbl. Cleaning them is a drag even though they are never that bad, but ya gotta go thru the motions. They both look and function well.
Oil filter cartridges weren't meant to be re-used anyway. I kept my old cannister and Purolator P48 oil filter cartridges up until about 25 years ago, but if you ask me, I never had any problems with the old cannister type. You may save a few minutes with the spin-on type filter, but I never saw it as reason to gripe about the old style filter.

[Daves55Sedan]

Here is a photo of the '53 small-case Ford-O-Matic tag. This was factory installed behind a 215 I-block 6-cyl engine. The air-cooled torque converter was one of the last of the old design that used a flat gasket between the flywheel plate and converter housing. The newer design included a large o-ring gasket instead of the round flat gasket and the converter housing had a small chamfer cutout from the inner surface to accept the o-ring.
53-Fordo-tag1.JPG

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Here is a photo of the '53 small-case Ford-O-Matic tag. This was factory installed behind a 215 I-block 6-cyl engine. The air-cooled torque converter was one of the last of the old design that used a flat gasket between the flywheel plate and converter housing. The newer design included a large o-ring gasket instead of the round flat gasket and the converter housing had a small chamfer cutout from the inner surface to accept the o-ring.
Attachment 466883

Thank you for the photo, any chance you could do it in a larger format?

Based on the post from rotowrench, I am wondering what plant it was built in:

The serial will tell you a little bit. The first digits before the hyphen designate the plant code. A "2", "6", or "10" prefix indicates Cincinnati plant by FoMoCo. A"1", "5", or "9" prefix designates Warner Gear Division. The linear serial number started at 10001 followed by 10002 and so on. This information comes from the 1953 dated revision of the Merc-O-Matic transmission repair and adjustment manual.

I note that mine had 6 digests after the first digit and hyphen, wonder if that means anything?

Thanks again for the PDF/Xerox of the tag.

[KULTULZ]

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Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The ones I've seen are the red type and the application number is large so that it fits the space there better. All was painted on except the serial number. That's why they don't last. Some have a casting number on the case but they are a case number. The 1P-N and 1P-P versions were used on both 239 and 255 applications in 1953 and the linear alpha change was likely done for either a small internal change, a date of manufacture change, or a place of manufacture change but I cant tell you with any certainty which applies. The 1st data plate in the post above is very close in arrangement to the 1P-7000 series. It has the model number first (example 1P-7000-N), the 3-digit date code, month/week/last digit of year are there. The serial will tell you a little bit. The first digits before the hyphen designate the plant code. A "2", "6", or "10" prefix indicates Cincinnati plant by FoMoCo. A"1", "5", or "9" prefix designates Warner Gear Division. The linear serial number started at 10001 followed by 10002 and so on. This information comes from the 1953 dated revision of the Merc-O-Matic transmission repair and adjustment manual.

I can't say they are all red but the ones I've seen are. There is a history of changing colors so nothing would surprise me about that. The manual photos are black and white so there is no help there.

You might try this place for a tag restoration.
http://www.datatags.com/

There may be others that do this but some may only do quantity instead of one offs for new plates.

Any chance of your scanning and posting the pertinent pages?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Thank you for the photo, any chance you could do it in a larger format?

Based on the post from rotowrench, I am wondering what plant it was built in:

The serial will tell you a little bit. The first digits before the hyphen designate the plant code. A "2", "6", or "10" prefix indicates Cincinnati plant by FoMoCo. A"1", "5", or "9" prefix designates Warner Gear Division. The linear serial number started at 10001 followed by 10002 and so on. This information comes from the 1953 dated revision of the Merc-O-Matic transmission repair and adjustment manual.

I note that mine had 6 digests after the first digit and hyphen, wonder if that means anything?

If your tag was previously posted and the SERIAL NUMBER began with a 9, it is a BORG-WARNER ASSY.

A little more dust has to settle before attempting to have a repro done.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Any chance of your scanning and posting the pertinent pages?

It is 105 pages long. Is there a certain section or do you want the entire book? You are right, the one shown in the book is Black and White. The one in Red is the best one so far.

[KULTULZ]

No, all I would like to see is the ID page rotorwrench referred to as to how to determine CODE BREAKDOWN from the 1953 TRANS WSM (and any other year WSM you may have that has the same description).

I need exact text/verbiage.

[rotorwrench]

I'll see if I can set up the scanner and get a file for that page.

The FOM for the 215 6-cylinder would not be covered by the Merc-O-Matic manual since it is Ford. It is likely the code for Dearborn since that is listed on the tag but I don't know. Tags can be from anywhere but the transmission could still have been made at a different Ford plant.

Looking at post #108 again and I see that that is the same information that is in the manual I have verbatim in photos 2 and 3 at the top. I have that same green manual at the bottom. I don't have a Ford-O-Matic manual.

The model information comes from the fourth page in Charely Tranny's Ford transmision identification information for FOM/MOM 3-speeds. It appears to be similar to information I've seen in the old Motors Manuals but it could be FoMoCo I don't know. Here is a link to the access page.
https://www.charlietranny.com/FordomaticID.htm

[Merc Cruzer]

Would the numbering system have been the same on both the Fords and Mercurys? The reason I ask, is the serial numbers as described in the book, only had 5 numbers, following the initial digit followed by the hyphen, and mine has 6 numbers.

Or the answer would be, they just made more then they originality thought, therefor the numbers were longer.

Hopefully these pictures (from page 45) are a little easier to read.

I have started calling local transmission shops to see if i can find a good original.

[rotorwrench]

If they serialized by model number then numbers in the tens of thousands may have covered their bases. If they didn't then they may have needed a lot more prefix numbers to cover their amounts manufactured. There just isn't enough info to know that sort of stuff.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Would the numbering system have been the same on both the Fords and Mercurys? The reason I ask, is the serial numbers as described in the book, only had 5 numbers, following the initial digit followed by the hyphen, and mine has 6 numbers.

Or the answer would be, they just made more then they originality thought, therefor the numbers were longer.

Hopefully these pictures (from page 45) are a little easier to read.

I have started calling local transmission shops to see if i can find a good original.

Yes, the ID SYSTEM would have been basically the same for either line with maybe a few hiccups here and there. The trans were either unique to either line or was cross used in both lines. FORD ID charts will give you that.

What you have copied is exactly what I need. I will cipher on them.

[KULTULZ]

THANX! rotorwrench ...

The ID is not all that difficult if one has the resource material to weed through it. What was posted is what I need hopefully.

You had SERVICE INFO, PARTS INFO and the most I wish I had was SERVICE LETTERS.

But I believe when all the dust settles, his will be a 1P-7003-N BW assembled.

And I can't believe no one is either restoring or reproducing these tags. Most everything else is available.

[Merc Cruzer]

In reality, I am only a digital photograph away from being able to reproduce them. There so many artisans on Etsy that can do just about anything, once you present it to them. Reverse engineering the original process, should not be an issue with today technology.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Thank you for the photo, any chance you could do it in a larger format?

Based on the post from rotowrench, I am wondering what plant it was built in:

I note that mine had 6 digests after the first digit and hyphen, wonder if that means anything?

If you click on the photo, it will enlarge. You will be able to read the ID plate better
The model no of the '53 Ford-O-Matic is 1P-7003-C. The serial number is 4-89996. Note here that the first digit (4) of the serial# is painted on in red paint along with the red background.
But they may have done it differently for Merc transmissions. I assume it was made at the Dearborn plant, as indicated at the bottom of the nameplate.
However, if you looked at the PDF of the '55 Ford-O-Matic, it shows Muncie, Indiana and has a longer serial number with 3 digits before the hyphen.

[cokefirst]

I have FOM in my 1956 F100 The tag was all there and in good condition when I took it in for the rebuild. Unfortunately, most of the red paint came off during the rebuild. If someone make a good decal, I would sure buy one. I know you don't see it unless you are under the vehicle, but I would still like to have it restored.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by merc cruzer

in reality, i am only a digital photograph away from being able to reproduce them. There so many artisans on etsy that can do just about anything, once you present it to them. Reverse engineering the original process, should not be an issue with today technology.

Bingo!

[KULTULZ]

ADDITIONAL INFO

FORD and the Warner Gear Division of Borg-Warner signed a contract in 1948 which entered B-W into a supply agreement wherein they would build half of FORD's transmissions for five years (NOTE: That would be 1951-1954 Model Years), with the other half either being built by FORD or by a different supplier. Because of this agreement, Ford licensed the design themselves and broke ground immediately on an assembly plant to build the remaining transmissions.

The new plant, called Fairfax Transmission Plant (CIN OH), was dedicated in 1950.


SOURCE - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise-O-Matic#MX/FX


BW Plant – Decatur, IL

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

If you click on the photo, it will enlarge. You will be able to read the ID plate better
The model no of the '53 Ford-O-Matic is 1P-7003-C. The serial number is 4-89996. Note here that the first digit (4) of the serial# is painted on in red paint along with the red background.
But they may have done it differently for Merc transmissions. I assume it was made at the Dearborn plant, as indicated at the bottom of the nameplate.
However, if you looked at the PDF of the '55 Ford-O-Matic, it shows Muncie, Indiana and has a longer serial number with 3 digits before the hyphen.

Your photo is good, thanks again, but I want to confirm that the ones on the Mercurys were not different any any way, since mine decodes as: "9" prefix designates Warner Gear Division. I am not sure where the plant was, or if the tag would read differently.

I will probably have to do the same thing for trucks and 6 cylinder cars too, just to be sure.

[rotorwrench]

The Borg Warner plant on Kilgore Avenue in Muncie Indiana was where the first Ford-O-Matics were manufactured by BW. Ford built the Fairfax plant starting in 1949 for its own manufacture of the FOM/MOM transmissions. It was completed and in production by the begining of the 1951 model year. Borg Warner likely started manufacture at the Marvel Schebler/Tillotson Division plant in Decatur, Illinois in 1955.

This puts most of the early 1P type transmission manufacturing between the Ford Fairfax plant and the BW Muncie plant.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The Borg Warner plant on Kilgore Avenue in Muncie Indiana was where the first Ford-O-Matics were manufactured by BW.

Borg Warner likely started manufacture at the Marvel Schebler/Tillotson Division plant in Decatur, Illinois in 1955.

This puts most of the early 1P type transmission manufacturing between the Ford Fairfax plant and the BW Muncie plant.

OK, that answers that. THANX for the info.

That explains why the only BW ID TAG I have come across were after 1954 model year. Now the question is was there a separate 1951-54 ID TAG for BW and can we find an example to duplicate.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

OK, that answers that. THANX for the info.

That explains why the only BW ID TAG I have come across were after 1954 model year. Now the question is was there a separate 1951-54 ID TAG for BW and can we find an example to duplicate.

My thoughts exactly. Hopefully, someone will be able to post a picture of a transmission tag (50'-53') that was built at the Muncie plant.

[bigd1101]

Stuck valve in number 6 now. PB Blaster in the spark plug hole and let sit for a day or two?

Don't want to pull the manifold if I don't have to.....tranny shifting good now after a change.

[Merc Cruzer]

[QUOTE=bigd1101;2031714]Stuck valve in number 6 now. PB Blaster in the spark plug hole and let sit for a day or two?

Don't want to pull the manifold if I don't have to.....tranny shifting good now after a change.[/QUOT


Pulling the intake manifold if really a simple job. The hardest part is the vacuum line into the back of the carb, to get it to line up at the proper angle. It is a blind hole, as you lean over the side of the fender, with you head under the hood, while you are putting in back on. Other than that, it is all straight forward. Fingers crossed, hope the PB blaster works for you.

Keep us update on the PB Blaster solution.

[Merc Cruzer]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Getting ready to change the transmission fluid, so I though I would take a few of the sheet metal parts off and repaint them. The air vent/pickup was stamped, I think by the manufacture, (Vernco Corp). Wonder who they were.

[KULTULZ]

They would be an outside supplier/vendor to FOMOCO.

[bigd1101]

Not sure if I used the wrong stuff here. If so, I guess I'll have to drain it out. Let me know. I was sure until I read the bottom part of the bottle. I was looking at the "do not use after" model years. Then I see it says not to use where Type F is recommended. Do I need to drain this out and start over again? If so, what freaking brand DO I use??

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...All%20Products

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

Not sure if I used the wrong stuff here. If so, I guess I'll have to drain it out. Let me know. I was sure until I read the bottom part of the bottle. I was looking at the "do not use after" model years. Then I see it says not to use where Type F is recommended. Do I need to drain this out and start over again? If so, what freaking brand DO I use??

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...All%20Products

Under Product details:

"Do not use this product in transmission that specify Ford Type F,"

I am changing mine and I had to order it (Valvoline Transmission Fluid Type F) from O'Rilleys, it only took one day to get it in.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...on+fluid&pos=0

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Under Product details:

"Do not use this product in transmission that specify Ford Type F,"

I am changing mine and I had to order it (Valvoline Transmission Fluid Type F) from O'Rilleys, it only took one day to get it in.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...on+fluid&pos=0

Damn......looks like I have to drain it out. SOB. Found the right stuff.......Valvoline Type F ATF. Amazon Prime, here in two days. Will work on the stuck valve in the meantime.....LOL!

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

Damn......looks like I have to drain it out. SOB. Found the right stuff.......Valvoline Type F ATF. Amazon Prime, here in two days. Will work on the stuck valve in the meantime.....LOL!

I just went and picked up the box of 11 quarts (I want an extra one to put in the trunk). I think they don't get a call for Type F much anymore!!!!

Since it was up on the ramps anyway, I though it would be a good time to take off a coupe of pieces of sheet metal, and repaint them. Got a good picture of the torque convert drain plug for my records. I will clean off the back of the torque converter, while I am at it too.

Might want to check the bolts, to make sure they are tight, while you are there. I did for piece of mind.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

Damn......looks like I have to drain it out. SOB. Found the right stuff.......Valvoline Type F ATF. Amazon Prime, here in two days. Will work on the stuck valve in the meantime.....LOL!

It came down to two choices for me, price might differ, depending where you buy it:

[Merc Cruzer]

Just when I was ready to change the transmission fluid tomorrow, the gasket /filter supplier, sent me the wrong one.

I ordered picture #1 and they sent me picture #2.

Reliable supplier, (ATP), so it shouldn't take long to get me the correct one.

************************************************** **********************

I guess I was wrong:

Here is the original add on E-bay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38411381192...Cclp%3A2563228

Correspondence between ATP and myself:

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: 7/1/2021 6:39:46 PM Mountain Standard Time
Subject: Re: blackporsche1987 sent a message about ATP Automotive Auto Transmission Filter Kit for 1952-1956 Mercury Custom pl #384113811924

My e-mail is: [email protected]

I have to admit I don't understand when you say: " We are sorry it does not appear to match the kit pictured." Why don't the parts look like the ones pictured in the add?

Send me the prepaid return label, and I will return the wrong parts, for a full refund, to include shipping and tax.

You should really change your add to reflect what is being sent when ordering: ATP Automotive Auto Transmission Filter Kit for 1952-1956 Mercury Custom pl

In a message dated 7/1/2021 6:29:14 PM Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Dear blackporsche1987,

Hello, The part number ordered matches the part number sent on the box in the picture. This is ATP kit B-33. We are sorry it does not appear to match the kit pictured. We do not know the part number of the kit you would require with the more rectangular shape. We can provide a prepaid return label for a full refund upon return receipt of the new and uninstalled part. If you would like to be set up for a prepaid label please provide a personal email for us to send it to. We apologize for any inconvenience. If you have any questions or concerns please reach out.

Regards, Sixity Auto Direct Customer Service
Thank You, Sixity Auto Direct Customer Service:::a0S3w00001G5InCEAV:::

On 2021-07-01 21:41:39,
blackporsche1987 asked:I ordered: ATP Automotive Auto Transmission Filter Kit for 1952-1956 Mercury Custom pl:https://www.ebay.com/itm/384113811924

The first two pictures are what you sent me, the third picture is what I ordered.

[down-the-road]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Getting ready to change the transmission fluid, so I though I would take a few of the sheet metal parts off and repaint them. The air vent/pickup was stamped, I think by the manufacture, (Vernco Corp). Wonder who they were.

That stamped logo looked familiar. A box fan that came from my grandparent's house has a Vernco logo. I found a couple of short articles about Vernco in Columbus, Indiana.


http://www.therepublic.com/2020/02/1...y_get_new_use/

Built in 1935, the industrial facility originally housed the V.E. Sprouse Co., an Indianapolis-based firm that made humidifiers, fans, electric motors and auto parts. It wasn’t until 1953 that the business changed its name to Vernco Corp.



https://www.newspapers.com/clip/7673...y-of-building/

[NZFordguy]

Love it

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

I just went and picked up the box of 11 quarts (I want an extra one to put in the trunk). I think they don't get a call for Type F much anymore!!!!

Since it was up on the ramps anyway, I though it would be a good time to take off a coupe of pieces of sheet metal, and repaint them. Got a good picture of the torque convert drain plug for my records. I will clean off the back of the torque converter, while I am at it too.

Might want to check the bolts, to make sure they are tight, while you are there. I did for piece of mind.

How many times did you have to turn the engine over to reveal the torque converter plug? And to get it at it's lowest point to drain completely? Plus how much fluid was actually in the converter?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Just when I was ready to change the transmission fluid tomorrow, the gasket /filter supplier, sent me the wrong one.

I ordered picture #1 and they sent me picture #2.

Reliable supplier, (ATP), so it shouldn't take long to get me the correct one.

************************************************** **********************

I guess I was wrong:

Here is the original add on E-bay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38411381192...Cclp%3A2563228

Correspondence between ATP and myself:

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: 7/1/2021 6:39:46 PM Mountain Standard Time
Subject: Re: blackporsche1987 sent a message about ATP Automotive Auto Transmission Filter Kit for 1952-1956 Mercury Custom pl #384113811924

My e-mail is: [email protected]

I have to admit I don't understand when you say: " We are sorry it does not appear to match the kit pictured." Why don't the parts look like the ones pictured in the add?

Send me the prepaid return label, and I will return the wrong parts, for a full refund, to include shipping and tax.

You should really change your add to reflect what is being sent when ordering: ATP Automotive Auto Transmission Filter Kit for 1952-1956 Mercury Custom pl

In a message dated 7/1/2021 6:29:14 PM Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Dear blackporsche1987,

Hello, The part number ordered matches the part number sent on the box in the picture. This is ATP kit B-33. We are sorry it does not appear to match the kit pictured. We do not know the part number of the kit you would require with the more rectangular shape. We can provide a prepaid return label for a full refund upon return receipt of the new and uninstalled part. If you would like to be set up for a prepaid label please provide a personal email for us to send it to. We apologize for any inconvenience. If you have any questions or concerns please reach out.

Regards, Sixity Auto Direct Customer Service
Thank You, Sixity Auto Direct Customer Service:::a0S3w00001G5InCEAV:::

On 2021-07-01 21:41:39,
blackporsche1987 asked:I ordered: ATP Automotive Auto Transmission Filter Kit for 1952-1956 Mercury Custom pl:https://www.ebay.com/itm/384113811924

The first two pictures are what you sent me, the third picture is what I ordered.

... what a bunchfvck ...

It seems I was wrong in recommending them. Now if you want another caveat (Fr.) thrown into the mix, their product photos are the same as another E-BAY seller showing a NOS B9AP 7A098-B FM filter.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Transmission...c/264297128980


When you expand the attachments there is descriptive text below them.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by down-the-road

That stamped logo looked familiar. A box fan that came from my grandparent's house has a Vernco logo. I found a couple of short articles about Vernco in Columbus, Indiana.


http://www.therepublic.com/2020/02/1...y_get_new_use/

Built in 1935, the industrial facility originally housed the V.E. Sprouse Co., an Indianapolis-based firm that made humidifiers, fans, electric motors and auto parts. It wasn’t until 1953 that the business changed its name to Vernco Corp.



https://www.newspapers.com/clip/7673...y-of-building/

Cool and very interesting.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

How many times did you have to turn the engine over to reveal the torque converter plug? And to get it at it's lowest point to drain completely? Plus how much fluid was actually in the converter?

As to lining up the plug to the bottom. The transmission has to be in neutral, so block the rear wheels and pull the emergency brake handle all the way out, to lock the rear brakes, if you are using a ramp for the front wheels.Take the plate off the bottom access hole (picture # 3). I used a fathead pry bar and put it up the bottom hole, on the outer fins of the torque converter, and using the side of the hole to brace the bar, rotated the housing until the hole was at the bottom.

I would guess maybe a quart will remain in the converter.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

... what a bunchfvck ...

It seems I was wrong in recommending them. Now if you want another caveat (Fr.) thrown into the mix, their product photos are the same as another E-BAY seller showing a NOS B9AP 7A098-B FM filter.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Transmission...c/264297128980


When you expand the attachments there is descriptive text below them.

I am trying this guy now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15437105901...733b00e67b8533

I might just be setting myself up for failure again.

Who would ever guess changing the trans fluid on the car would be such an issue. When I called O'Riellys to check on the one they had advertised, they said it was special order and I would have to pay shipping.

Remember that discussion on just cleaning the screen a few post back, well it might just come to that. I checked with the guy that has the NOS screen and it doesn't have the "O" rings. Probably not an issue anyway, as they would be all dried out by now.

If worse comes to worse, I could always just clean the filter/screen and use silicone for the gasket. My fingers are crossed on the new surlier, his screen name is (guaranteedtofit)


Today's project, make a box, to put the box the incorrect filter and gasket came in, to send it back for a refund. They sent it in a bag with bubble wrap.

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

As to lining up the plug to the bottom. The transmission has to be in neutral, so block the rear wheels and pull the emergency brake handle all the way out, to lock the rear brakes, if you are using a ramp for the front wheels.Take the plate off the bottom access hole (picture # 3). I used a fathead pry bar and put it up the bottom hole, on the outer fins of the torque converter, and using the side of the hole to brace the bar, rotated the housing until the hole was at the bottom.

I would guess maybe a quart will remain in the converter.

Hw does that access plate come off?

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

Hw does that access plate come off?

Put a flat head screw driver under the lip and it will pop off

[KULTULZ]

It looks to me that they sent you a kit for a C6.

It seems they have recently merged with another company and usually quality/service suffers. When you need to advertise on EvilBay, that alone is a warning. Same as AMAZON, a lot of counterfeit MOTORCRAFT there.

The correct kit is B-33. What was the PN on the kit they sent?

https://atpautomotive.com/filter-kit-22976

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

Not sure if I used the wrong stuff here. If so, I guess I'll have to drain it out. Let me know. I was sure until I read the bottom part of the bottle. I was looking at the "do not use after" model years. Then I see it says not to use where Type F is recommended. Do I need to drain this out and start over again? If so, what freaking brand DO I use??

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...All%20Products

No, supposedly it is formulated as DEXRON III and MERCON replacement. That is what you want for a soft shift.

Don't worry about 2005 TECH on or TYPE F trans. TYPE F ran from 1968 to 1980.

I would be concerned about the quality and purpose of TRACTOR SUPPLY oils as they are generally meant for tractor/equipment and hydraulics usage. I have reservations about house brands as you have no knowledge of where it came from.

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

No, supposedly it is formulated as DEXRON III and MERCON replacement. That is what you want for a soft shift.

Don't worry about 2005 TECH on or TYPE F trans. TYPE F ran from 1968 to 1980.

I would be concerned about the quality and purpose of TRACTOR SUPPLY oils as they are generally meant for tractor/equipment and hydraulics usage. I have reservations about house brands as you have no knowledge of where it came from.

So just run it with what I put in (for now)? What signs should I look for if the tranny does not respond right to this fluid from TS? It's not like I drive this car daily or hard.....and I would rather not waste 50 bucks worth of ATF just to add another on a concern.

[Merc Cruzer]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

It looks to me that they sent you a kit for a C6.

It seems they have recently merged with another company and usually quality/service suffers. When you need to advertise on EvilBay, that alone is a warning. Same as AMAZON, a lot of counterfeit MOTORCRAFT there.

The correct kit is B-33. What was the PN on the kit they sent?

https://atpautomotive.com/filter-kit-22976

B-33 on the box. Just the wrong stuff in the box. I guess I shouldn't be so critical, they got half the order tight, they sent me the correct box!

Thanks, I was wondering, what they sent me, would fit.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

So just run it with what I put in (for now)? What signs should I look for if the tranny does not respond right to this fluid from TS? It's not like I drive this car daily or hard.....and I would rather not waste 50 bucks worth of ATF just to add another on a concern.

#1 - It is not my car, but yours so I cannot give you an answer that is not biased. If you want to run it, just monitor how it performs.

You will have posters jumping on here saying "it will be just fine".

I never could fully understand price concern over quality concern. Usually, one will find the correct quality components and then price shop.

What condition was the old fluid in?

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

#1 - It is not my car, but yours so I cannot give you an answer that is not biased. If you want to run it, just monitor how it performs.

You will have posters jumping on here saying "it will be just fine".

I never could fully understand price concern over quality concern. Usually, one will find the correct quality components and then price shop.

What condition was the old fluid in?

I understand. I guess I'll just monitor it and if shifting changes (it's smooth now) I'll replace it. I was going for the "right stuff", regardless of price. I assumed all Dex/Merc stuff is the same regardless of brand. Also, I've never owned a automatic old car or truck, other than beaters, when I was a young whipper snapper, and didn't give a sh*t what ATF I put in those, as long as it got me home so this ATF is new to me....as that goes.

I wanted to replace the ATF in this car as it was about a quart or more low and the previous owner could not remember what he put in it and of course, I was warned "not to mix" so here I am. The shop that changed it said it was as clean and pink as they had ever seen, but again, I didn't want to top it off with whatever I could find, not knowing what was in there. I call that a quandary....

[Merc Cruzer]

The transmission will tell you soon enough if it doesn't agree.

I speak from experience when I say, if the fluid you put in has slipping agents, to provide for a smoother shift, the shifts will begin to "slam", since the plates will begin to slip before they grab. If that happens you will need to shorten the TV rod, as much as possible to prevent damage to the trans and rear differential. Since the rod will be the incorrect length, it will result in the loss of your "Kick Down", when you floor it.

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

The transmission will tell you soon enough if it doesn't agree.

I speak from experience when I say, if the fluid you put in has slipping agents, to provide for a smoother shift, the shifts will begin to "slam", since the plates will begin to slip before they grab. If that happens you will need to lengthen the TV rod, as much as possible to prevent damage to the trans and rear differential. Since the rod will be the incorrect length, it will result in the loss of your "Kick Down", when you floor it.

I have the right stuff coming. I'll just drain this and add the Type F.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

I have the right stuff coming. I'll just drain this and add the Type F.

I think that will prove to be a wise decision. You don't potentially want to create issues, where there are non.

Since we ordered them from the same vendor, did you get the correct gasket and screen/filter?

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

I think that will prove to be a wise decision. You don't potentially want to create issues, where there are non.

Since we ordered them from the same vendor, did you get the correct gasket and screen/filter?

I did.....

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

I did.....

Good to hear.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

I have the right stuff coming. I'll just drain this and add the Type F.

TYPE F is not the correct fill for that trans unless you desire to have a more firm shift. What you have (TS) is a supposed replacement for early DEXRON-MERCON (and they were not totally alike). It is just the quality of that particular product that concerns me.

Original formulation(s) are not available as the licenses have since lapsed/expired. So a refiner can now say anything.

[KULTULZ]

To add to the confusion and your continued reading enjoyment -

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/ford...ii-t11819.html

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

TYPE F is not the correct fill for that trans unless you desire to have a more firm shift. What you have (TS) is a supposed replacement for early DEXRON-MERCON (and they were not totally alike). It is just the quality of that particular product that concerns me.

Original formulation(s) are not available as the licenses have since lapsed/expired. So a refiner can now say anything.

You can adjust the firmness of the shift with the TV rod. Unscrewing the top "Y" piece, will make the rod longer, and will make the shift harder. Screwing it down, making the rod shorter, will make the shift softer. If you unscrew the top piece too far you will loose the kick down.

Scroll down to Ford Lincoln Mercury - first line:

http://www.carquestprofessionals.com...%206.10.13.pdf

[KULTULZ]

Fiddling with F/M TV ADJ without a pressure gauge may give you more trouble than you are prepared for. Same as with the later AOD.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Fiddling with F/M TV ADJ without a pressure gauge may give you more trouble than you are prepared for. Same as with the later AOD.

Sorry, I should have stated the following caveat: "This is for informational purposes only, this procedure should only be carried out by a trained mechanic with the proper tools."

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Sorry, I should have stated the following caveat: "This is for informational purposes only, this procedure should only be carried out by a trained mechanic with the proper tools."

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

You can adjust the firmness of the shift with the TV rod. Unscrewing the top "Y" piece, will make the rod longer, and will make the shift softer. Screwing it down, making the rod shorter, will make the shift firmer. If you unscrew the top piece too far you will loose the kick down.

In the '55 Bird I have, with an air-cooled FOM... The transmission was slipping very badly when pulling away from a stop, squealing and shaking the whole car.

The car has a relatively mismatched collection of '55 and '57 parts under the hood. The top end of the engine is '57 style pieces; heads, intake, carb, throttle bellcrank...

I followed the TV linkage adjustment procedure as closely as I could and ended up unscrewing the adjustment piece, lengthening the rod. The slipping, squealing & shaking went away.

Not sure if this matches anything else, it's just what happened.
I read somewhere the shift levers on a T-Bird FOM use levers on the side of the trans that are upside down from the 'full-sized car' versions. Not sure how true that is or if it even makes a difference.
.

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

You can adjust the firmness of the shift with the TV rod. Unscrewing the top "Y" piece, will make the rod longer, and will make the shift softer. Screwing it down, making the rod shorter, will make the shift firmer. If you unscrew the top piece too far you will loose the kick down.

Scroll down to Ford Lincoln Mercury - first line:

http://www.carquestprofessionals.com...%206.10.13.pdf

OK....there seems to be some conflict here on what I have in there now and the Type F that is coming any day now. Has anyone tried the new Type F in the Merc-o-matic with LONG TERM success? What is the consensus?

Is there a viable alternative to what is being used in there cars, other than what I have in my car now, and the Type F, I had planned on putting in???

This whole ball of confusion started with a simple question....."What IS the best ATF today, to use in the Merc-o-matic?" And to be honest, so far, there is no solid consistent (and time tested by folks on here) answer, at least that is what I'm hearing.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Dobie Gillis

Well I do own a Merc but it's a '55, not a '53.

You do not understand OLD MAN FORGETFULNESS AND CONFUSION?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

OK....there seems to be some conflict here on what I have in there now and the Type F that is coming any day now. Has anyone tried the new Type F in the Merc-o-matic with LONG TERM success? What is the consensus?

Is there a viable alternative to what is being used in there cars, other than what I have in my car now, and the Type F, I had planned on putting in???

This whole ball of confusion started with a simple question....."What IS the best ATF today, to use in the Merc-o-matic?" And to be honest, so far, there is no solid consistent (and time tested by folks on here) answer, at least that is what I'm hearing.

No matter what one posts on one of these forums, you will have others posting saying wrong and you are full of sh!at. This has been going on for years. That is why I try to document everything I post.

You need to review POST # 17, 20, 26, 30, 32, 37, 39, 144, 147, 148 and 154. Print them out for easier viewing. If it is not answered there, it will never be answered.

WHAT YOU HAVE IN THERE NOW IS CORRECT FOR TODAY'S BLENDING OF OUT-OF-DATE FLUIDS. It is the source (refiner-distributor) of the fluid that I am questioning.

- ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUALLY - LUBRICANTS ARE NOT -

If it were my car ... (fantasizing ) ... I would use only the QUALITY PRODUCTS previously mentioned or go with MERCON V.

It is confusing but once you have ciphered on it it makes sense (and I am none too bright).

Again, DEXRON is a GM PRODUCT TRADEMARK and MERCON is a FOMOCO PRODUCT TRADEMARK. They are not exactly the same fluids (since 1959). If one shakes the term DEXRON, it becomes easier to understand.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Sorry, I should have stated the following caveat: "This is for informational purposes only, this procedure should only be carried out by a trained mechanic with the proper tools."

There are complete threads somewhere on here and on y-blocksforever discussing how important the fluid pressure is.

That is another subject that will add to all of this confusion.

[bigd1101]

With over 3000 views so far, I'd say this discussion is wide open to questions. Anyone using a ATF in the 1953 Merc-o-matic, chime in with your experience. Now....what I've read outside of this site, is that if you had your tranny redone with newer innards, and such, the newer ATF will be good. If you have an older tranny with brass innards, the Type F is good.

I could be pissing up a rope here, but all I'm trying to figure out is.......what is best for the 53 Merc-o-matic. And lets say, you don't really know if your tranny was overhauled (like mine).......well then, it's a crap shoot. Put something in and pray you don't wad a good tranny in the process.

Don

[Merc Cruzer]

The owners manual and the transmission repair manuals, all say "Type A", is it still available? What formula they are using, I have no idea, but can be assured it doesn't contain whale oil.

I am draining the transmission and replacing it with Valvoline Type F. That just happens to be my choice.

I use Castrol 20/50, and add a bottle of ZDDP Plus, along with Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Many will tell you, this is a case of over kill, but since I built the engine myself, it was my choice.

What fluids you use in your car, is ultimately your choice. This forum has provided an abundance of information on that subject, but ultimately you will have to make the decision on your car yourself. Unfortunately, there is no single correct answer.

Owning a beautiful 53' Mercury is an education, that never ends.

[bigd1101]

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Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

The owners manual and the transmission repair manuals, all say "Type A", is it still available? What formula they are using, I have no idea, but can be assured it doesn't contain whale oil.

I am draining the transmission and replacing it with Valvoline Type F. That just happens to be my choice.

I use Castrol 20/50, and add a bottle of ZDDP Plus, along with Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Many will tell you, this is a case of over kill, but since I built the engine myself, it was my choice.

What fluids you use in your car, is ultimately your choice. This forum has provided you with an abundance of information on that subject, but ultimately you will have to make the decision on your car yourself. Unfortunately, there is no single correct answer.

Owning a beautiful 53' Mercury is an education, that never ends.

That's the hard part. There IS no single correct answer. You'd think there would be. Yes, this forum has indeed helped me many times over with questions and problems with some great results in the last few years, but I have to say, I've never experienced such a divide among members on such a simple subject as ATF. Maybe it's more complex with the AT's in these old cars. Like I said, all my old cars have been manual trannys.....same old stuff in those. No nuances, anecdotes or mysteries invoved.

[KULTULZ]

With over 3000 views so far, I'd say this discussion is wide open to questions.

Most likely, the 3000 count is those that want to know the facts also.

The owners manual and the transmission repair manuals, all say "Type A",

That data is from the early fifties. Tech has moved on. Would you want a brain surgeon cutting into you reading from a 1950's medical text?

That's the hard part. There IS no single correct answer.

Well, actually there is and it has been presented.

OK, I am out of here.

Yeah, I know oldmics. Don't let the door hit me in the a$$ ...

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

That's the hard part. There IS no single correct answer. You'd think there would be. Yes, this forum has indeed helped me many times over with questions and problems with some great results in the last few years, but I have to say, I've never experienced such a divide among members on such a simple subject as ATF. Maybe it's more complex with the AT's in these old cars. Like I said, all my old cars have been manual trannys.....same old stuff in those. No nuances, anecdotes or mysteries invoved.

The formula for ATF has changed dramatically over the years. Compatibility is definitely an issue. You can never go wrong with using the best quality fluids you can find. As long as the bottle doesn't say, "not for cars that use Type F" you should be fine.

[rotorwrench]

Type A used whale oil which had excellent high temperature characteristics and a little bit of light friction characteristic but not as much as Dexron B. Type F doesn't have friction modifiers.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Type A used whale oil which had excellent high temperature characteristics and a little bit of light friction characteristic but not as much as Dexron B. Type F dosen't have friction modifiers.

Learn something new every day:

DEXRON fluids

1967 – DEXRON(B)

1967 GM Dexron (B) ATF. GM License No. B-10001

1967 GM Dexron (B) ATF Lid. GM License No. B-10001

Released April 1, 1967. The original Dexron (B) fluid better retained the initial properties of the previous Type "A" Suffix "A" fluid (Several thousand cycles compared to 1000 cycles).[10] Dexron (B) was composed of a more stable, less reactive, hydrotreated Group 1 base oil plus additives for add non-foaming action qualities, high heat resistance, and anti-oxidation.[11] This was the first GM ATF to advertise 24,000 miles between changes.

This was the first GM ATF to require red dye as an aid in fluid leak detection. Prior to this fluid, GM ATF was the same color as engine oil. Aftermarket ATF was available with red dye.

GM Dexron (B) licensed products have a license number on the container that begins with the letter B. Example: B10001. This fluid is backward compatible with all Type "A" Suffix "A", and the Type "A" fluids produced from 1949 to 1966.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

That's the hard part. There IS no single correct answer. You'd think there would be. Yes, this forum has indeed helped me many times over with questions and problems with some great results in the last few years, but I have to say, I've never experienced such a divide among members on such a simple subject as ATF. Maybe it's more complex with the AT's in these old cars. Like I said, all my old cars have been manual trannys.....same old stuff in those. No nuances, anecdotes or mysteries invoved.

Interesting read: https://rxmechanic.com/type-a-transmission-fluid/

The article starts out by agreeing with you: "Maybe it's more complex with the AT's in these old cars."

[I"]Choosing a proper automatic transmission fluid may be a complicated process. This is because it is not always clear which oil you should pick for your transmission. Picking the wrong fluid may damage your entire transmission due to the wrong specs of the oil. Therefore, how to choose the right oil is a must-know question in order not to lose your transmission."

I should be receiving the gasket and filter/screen in the next new few days. I will drain and change the fluid, using the Valvoline Type F (post #131), followed by a series of test drives. I will keep you updated.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Type A used whale oil which had excellent high temperature characteristics and a little bit of light friction characteristic but not as much as Dexron B. Type F dosen't have friction modifiers.

Still with the whale oil? The main reason whale oil usage was dropped was breakdown at high temps. It was used as an anti-corrosive.

You are going to keep on until you have MOBY DICK hiding under deep ocean.

[KULTULZ]

Previously Posted By KULTULZ -

Again, DEXRON is a GM PRODUCT TRADEMARK and MERCON is a FOMOCO PRODUCT TRADEMARK. They are not exactly the same fluids (since 1959). If one shakes the term DEXRON, it becomes easier to understand.

My last b!tch and I am going to leave this one alone.

When working on a FORD, all references to DEXRON must be eliminated in discussion. FORD went to their own formulation in 1959 and never looked back. You have to use the FORD LUBE CHARTS to cipher what modern fluid is best for your particular early application.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Previously Posted By KULTULZ -


My last b!tch and I am going to leave this one alone.

When working on a FORD, all references to DEXRON must be eliminated in discussion. FORD went to their own formulation in 1959 and never looked back. You have to use the FORD LUBE CHARTS to cipher what modern fluid is best for your particular early application.

It is not bitching, if it helps to understand the information posted!

As to the "FORD LUBE CHARTS", I looked them up and they were of no use since they are all period and date correct. They all say Type A. What I would like to see is a Ford Factory service bulletin that would have been sent out to the dealers, addressing the issue of the replacement of Type A transmission fluid.

[rotorwrench]

Folks didn't always go to the Ford, GM, or Chrysler garages for ATF. In fact most went to the auto parts store and bought what ever was close. GM, Ford, and Chrysler all used the "hydramatic" transmission fluid under licence until finally being released on the aftermarket as type A. Many would use SAE 20 grade mineral oil rather than go to an Oldsmobile dealer to get their fluid so GM finally released the formula under contract for aftermarket use rather than have all the transmission problems associated with straight mineral oil. Formulas are still protected by contract agreements.

GM and other manufacturers NEVER wanted the general public to know how much sperm whale oil was used in all their ATF products and they still don't. This link is to an article about transmission fluid but it doesn't mention the formulas at all.
https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/s...smission-fluid

The hydramatic transmission was war tested in the M5 Stuart tanks and other derivatives of it. They were produced first at the GM Cadillac plant and had two Cadillac V8s with two hydramatic transmissions. They had to do mods to the transmissions and the fluids to get all that to work so this was when the first ATF was actually developed that would have a long lasting effect and have reliability.

This link is basic but it addresses what is available and what they were for.
https://www.transmasters.com/faqs/tr...on-fluid-types
Fords with the ravigneaux planetary gear set could take a pretty direct shift due to the metal bronze & steel plates so the type F was a follow on to make up for the loss of whale oil use after the moratorium on killing whales.

Whale oil wasn't just an additive. It made up a large percentage of the auto trans fluid due to it being a very good quality natural ester lubricant. It was some years later before technology could make a synthetic ester that would be in the category with sperm whale oil. Synthetics were developed for turbo jet engines in the years after the war and is still being modified to fit new requirements for all sorts of synthetic and blend type lubricants. Synthetic oils won't burn easily. They tend to vaporize before they burn and it takes a hell of a lot of heat to light the stuff off.

Good luck finding how much sperm whale oil was actually used in the old ATFs. This is like trying finding out the Colonel's secret recipe. They seldom even reveal any of the other additives. It's all proprietary and they have good reason to protect it.

One last thing I would like to add. I've done a lot of research over the years on this subject and I have found discrepancies between a lot of different sources so I've learned to take this information with a grain of salt. At some point a person has to give up and accept that it is what it is and the only way to find some information is to buy it and sign the agreements for it's use. This would likely keep a person from divulging the information under the agreements so it won't do me any good to go that far.

[bigd1101]

I called the old gentleman I bought the car off of and of course, he didn't know if the tranny was rebuilt, just "gone over". what ever that means, so I'm still flying blind on what to put in this car. The car has 80,000 miles on the odometer, so I'll assume those are original, and with the valve on 6 still showing zero compression (yeah, back to square one) I'll assume that the tranny is original and thus, will probably drain the Dex/merc stuff out and put the Type F, I have coming, in her. Consensus says here and other sites the brass innards in the old Merc-o-matic cannot handle the slick properties of the new stuff, so in goes the Type F from Valvoline. I just hope it's the original transmission innards in my car.

What should I look for if the car doesn't like the Type F and how quickly can it ruin my transmission, if that is the case? I know it will shift harder.....or start slipping? Dealing with the engine is enough for me at this point and I don't need another headache.

[rotorwrench]

The throttle valve is controlled by the bell crank mechanism, linkage, and adjustable rod down to the transmission throttle valve arm. The flathead versions are all about the same requiring lengthening or shortening of the TV control rod to affect the shift. These old transmissions are controlled by operating pressure of the fluid internally and that valve is the means of control. More modern Ford transmissions after 1961 use a vacuum modulator valve to control pressures.

I wouldn't adjust it unless the shift is too hard or too soft and that would be after checking the system pressure in accordance with the manual (the green manual for Mercomatic adjustment & repairs). The manual gives good instructions. The tooling is helpful but in most cases, this stuff can be set up without the factory tooling as long as a person understands how it all works. The original adjustment the car came with is a good baseline so take pictures or measurements before removing or adjusting any of this stuff.

Type F ATF may be fine with no adjustments. Any fluid is better than no or low fluid level but a person should know what it is and not mix other fluids in there. It has to have fluid to insure bearing as well as shift function. I don't think any type of ATF would break it but I will say that damage can be done that is evident of slipping clutches or mechanical noises that are not normal. If it has no pressure, it won't drive at all. This could be caused by a bad pump, pressure regulator, or a bad internal leak due to seal deterioration or a transfer tube not properly installed. There are a lot of things that can happen to a transmission to cause problems. A broken torque converter will keep it from moving as well. It is always best to investigate further if the transmission doesn't operate like it should. Continuing to run it with problems just makes the situation worse. If it shifts a bit harsh or too sloppy then is will likely need to be adjusted to change the TV pressure. Adjust in small increments and record all adjustments so they can be reversed if too far. Get the 1953 Mercomatic maintenance and adjustment manual to help you understand it or at least to help your local flathead friendly transmission man if it is more a task than you want to get involved with.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

I called the old gentleman I bought the car off of and of course, he didn't know if the tranny was rebuilt, just "gone over". what ever that means, so I'm still flying blind on what to put in this car. The car has 80,000 miles on the odometer, so I'll assume those are original, and with the valve on 6 still showing zero compression (yeah, back to square one) I'll assume that the tranny is original and thus, will probably drain the Dex/merc stuff out and put the Type F, I have coming, in her. Consensus says here and other sites the brass innards in the old Merc-o-matic cannot handle the slick properties of the new stuff, so in goes the Type F from Valvoline. I just hope it's the original transmission innards in my car.

What should I look for if the car doesn't like the Type F and how quickly can it ruin my transmission, if that is the case? I know it will shift harder.....or start slipping? Dealing with the engine is enough for me at this point and I don't need another headache.

You might call him and see if he has any ATF on the shelf in the garage. If he does, that is most likely, what is in the car.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by bigd1101

I called the old gentleman I bought the car off of and of course, he didn't know if the tranny was rebuilt, just "gone over". what ever that means, so I'm still flying blind on what to put in this car. The car has 80,000 miles on the odometer, so I'll assume those are original, and with the valve on 6 still showing zero compression (yeah, back to square one) I'll assume that the tranny is original and thus, will probably drain the Dex/merc stuff out and put the Type F, I have coming, in her. Consensus says here and other sites the brass innards in the old Merc-o-matic cannot handle the slick properties of the new stuff, so in goes the Type F from Valvoline. I just hope it's the original transmission innards in my car.

What should I look for if the car doesn't like the Type F and how quickly can it ruin my transmission, if that is the case? I know it will shift harder.....or start slipping? Dealing with the engine is enough for me at this point and I don't need another headache.

UPDATE

The new gasket and scree, came in today and they are the correct ones.

Pictures tomorrow, but today I removed both converter plugs and drained the converter. (two quarts came out - but the car has been sitting for about a week now, so much of it drained back in to the pan). FYI: you can pull just one plug and let it drain if you want, then turn the converter and remove the other plug, which is what I did. I then cleaned both plugs and reinstalled them, and torqued them to the book specks = 15-25 ft lbs. The reason the book says to pull both, is to do a fast fluid change, and that allows air to get into the top of the converter.

I also pulled the pan and cleaned it out, considerable sludge in the bottom. Cleaned up the filler tube and repainted it, along with the pan.

Since you are dealing with the one dead cylinder, you might want to wait and see how mine comes out before you do yours.

One last issue. I called Valvoline and checked out the manufacture dates on the fluid I had bought from O'Reilly's. As it turns out it was manufactured back in 2000 and 2001 and the shelf life for the fluid from Valvoline, is 5 years. Returned the fluid for a full refund ans bought new Valvoline Type F fluid (manufactured this year) from NAPA.

1 - clean drain pan
2- draining converter
3- draining converter
4- draining pan
6- pan off - valve body
7- converter drain plugs
8- screen off - valve body
9- screen top
10- screen bottom
11- sludge in bottom of ban
12- new screen gasket kit
13- new Valvoline Type F

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

UPDATE

One last issue. I called Valvoline and checked out the manufacture dates on the fluid I had bought from O'Reilly's. As it turns out it was manufactured back in 2000 and 2001 and the shelf life for the fluid from Valvoline, is 5 years.



Returned the fluid for a full refund ans bought new Type F fluid (manufactured this year) from NAPA.

Can you describe how to cipher their date code?

How dirty was the screen?

You bought TYPE-F from NAPA?

[KULTULZ]

Talk about paybacks and Deja' View' (Fr) -

My daughter has a 2015 SCRUBBY. Needs PS FLUID. SPEC says DEXRON VI. Of course, none (genuine) to be found immediately and only aftermarket available. The only product I have found other than GM is types that say DEXRON VI/MERCON V/LV compatible. How does one figure?

Found a CASTROL product that is GM specific approved with license. They also offer a VEHICLE MULTI-PURPOSE FLUID that meets both GM and FORD SPEC. I don't think so.

Buyer Beware!

Proper choice is much more important on a 2000/ vehicle than the periods being discussed here.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Can you describe how to cipher their date code?

How dirty was the screen?

You bought TYPE-F from NAPA?

On this bottle, the date code is C2521H211

C = March
25 - Date of the month
21 = Year of manufacture
H = distribution center
211 = not used in the production code

The other labels are the shipping labels on the boxes.

Their customer service number is 1-800-832-6825 - then hit 5 on the phone

Yes I bought two cases (12 quarts) of Valvoline Type F from Napa. It took two stores to get it, since each store only had one case.

The outside of the screen was very dirty.

I let it continue to drain overnight, with out the pan.

[Merc Cruzer]

First test drive: The shifting is definitely firmer than before, especially from drive to reverse. But that having been said, it was fine! She passed with flying colors.

The next few days I will take it for longer test drives.

[Sid]

Beside the 49-50 Merc. 53-54 are my second favorite. Beautiful cars of there time.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

On this bottle, the date code is C2521H211

Yes I bought two cases (12 quarts) of Valvoline Type F from Napa. It took two stores to get it, since each store only had one case.

The outside of the screen was very dirty.

I let it continue to drain over night, with out the pan.

THANX for the additional info, appreciated!

OH! What was the PN on the filter and who sells it?

[KULTULZ]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

OK, I think it has finally dawned on me why the confusion for early ATF TYPES.

The constant mention/referral of DEXRON and FORD (MERCON) FLUIDS together. What is offered today is a MULTI-VEHICLE FLUID, supposedly conforming to early formulations. That is not possible. They are actually a MULTI-VEHICLE FORMULATION. They are as close to original/correct formulations as horse-shoes, hand grenades and/or thermonuclear warfare.

This is what is causing the confusion. And I have been beating my head against the wall for how many years ...

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MERCON..._%22A%22_Fluid

KULTULZ - Finally At Peace ... ... (dumb-a$$)

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

THANX for the additional info, appreciated!

OH! What was the PN on the filter and who sells it?

Filter and gasket kit (the add says that it is in Texas,but it came from San Bernardino, California) The Kit number is B-33. The other place I bought it from, had the correct label the wrong box.:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15437105901...733b00e67b8533

I just ordered a second one to put on the self, so I will have it for the next service.

[KULTULZ]

OK ... Still ATP.

THANX!

[Merc Cruzer]

ATP is the correct manufacture. The boxes are definitely different. One is incorrect and is a long rectangle (Post #143) and the correct one is a square box (post #187).

Just took her out again, this time for a 20 mile run on the 4 lane freeway, 60 - 65 mph, most of the time. At 10:00 it was already 80 (100 later today), so no temperature break
this morning. Trans didn't miss a beat. Brought her home, no fluid loss.

One more round of successful maintenance, on the car., Not to mention I feel better knowing the pan is clean, it has a new screen/filter and the fluid is correct and new.

To the 5013 viewers, hope we answered all of your questions. Thank you all, especially bigd1101 for your original inquiry, and to my fellow posters, for your knowledge and input.

[KULTULZ]

There have been many discussions regarding this subject over many different forums. I am going to start listing older REFERRING URL's as I come across them to hopefully help others to fully understand what is being discussed -

- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296783

- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...94#post2034194

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

As to the "FORD LUBE CHARTS", I looked them up and they were of no use since they are all period and date correct. They all say Type A.

What I would like to see is a Ford Factory service bulletin that would have been sent out to the dealers, addressing the issue of the replacement of Type A transmission fluid.

As would I ...

There is no current back-fill correct chart that I know of. What I was implying is that one must read the OWNERS MANUAL for his exact year car and go by what FORD now recommends to use as back-fill.

FOMOCO used GM formulated TYPE A from 1951 to 1957, GM formulated TYPE SUFFIX A from 1957 to 1959. FOMOCO then formulated its own ATF beginning in 1959. The correct fluid for use was FORD TYPE D (1959/ ). It was replaced by TYPE F in 1968. There was no DEXRON (GM TRADEMARK - 1967) usage except for a short period in the early seventies. GM FLUID before DEXRON was introduced was TYPE A or TYPE A SUFFIX A.

What you are seeing now is a refiner attempting to offer a fluid that is supposedly compatible with either application, its description as being MULTI-VEHICLE. MERCON is a TRADE-NAME that FORD began using in 1987 so that throws more information into the fray. Then correct formulations and license has long expired. A seller can put anything on the label that will help sell the product.

The same goes for PS FLUID. You use what the OWNERS MANUAL or a FOMOCO LUBE CHART (of the period calls for).

[rotorwrench]

I think GM had a type B beginning in 1967 until the name Dexron finally showed up. This is not the same as the Ford type B from 1959 which didn't stay around too long before Ford type D came along in the early 60s. All this makes for a lot of confusion and it likely always will.

My uncle was in the auto parts business back in the day and aftermarket ATF was ATF until GM, Ford, & Mopar started making more changes in the mid to late 60s. The Type F was for older Fords and not too much later the type CJ came along for the C6 due to shift complaints. The type CJ disappeared after the multi use Dexron III/Mercon started to show up in the parts stores. Dexron II/Mercon H was just as confusing. Marketing claims were all over the place on the aftermarket stuff. Seeing a quart can of Motorcraft Dexron II was just as confusing.

The 1964 Thunderbird I used to have loved the type F in the cruise-o-matic. When they shift, it's so quick you can hardly feel the torque change unless you really step on it.

[Merc Cruzer]

Went to an all Ford car show today, put on by the local Early Ford V8 Club. The location was at Fort Logan. The buildings in the back are the old officers quarters from WWI and WWII. The big open space, behind the cars is the old parade grounds.

Nice day, but coming home the temp was in the 90's. Added another 50 miles to the transmission since the fluid change. Believe me that fluid got hot today on the way back up the hill, 3000 ft climb in 13 miles.

[KULTULZ]

- MERCON - MERCON V - TSB _

ATF - https://www.aa1car.com/library/ford_tsb_06144.pdf

PS FLUID - https://www.stangnet.com/images/stor...s/07-01-07.pdf

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

There is no current back-fill correct chart that I know of. What I was implying is that one must read the OWNERS MANUAL for his exact year car and go by what FORD now recommends to use as back-fill.

The same goes for PS FLUID. You use what the OWNERS MANUAL or a FOMOCO LUBE CHART (of the period calls for).

More Info -

In January 1987, Ford released the original MERCON fluid specification (M2C185-A). MERCON became a trademarked fluid with qualification and licensing of fluids to ensure quality in the marketplace. This original MERCON Specification was backward compatible with the 1981 Ford Type-H fluid and the 1958 GM Type "A" Suffix "A" fluid.

NOTICE: This version of MERCON was compatible with GM DEXRON-II(D) and later formulations were compatible with DEXRON-III(H); however, future versions of MERCON (MERCON V, MERCON SP, MERCON LV, MERCON ULV) are not compatible with GM DEXRON-III(H) or any newer version of DEXRON (DEXRON-VI, DEXRON HP, DEXRON ULV).

1996 - MERCON V

MERCON V ATF - MERCON Licence No. M5091101

In 1996, Ford released the MERCON "V" fluid specification (M2C202-B).

Ford Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) 06-14-04 indicates that MERCON "V" is to replace the original MERCON fluid.

The MERCON "V" specification was revised in 2002 (M2C919-E).

SOURCE - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MERCON#1987_-_MERCON

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

In the '55 Bird I have, with an air-cooled FOM... The transmission was slipping very badly when pulling away from a stop, squealing and shaking the whole car.

The car has a relatively mismatched collection of '55 and '57 parts under the hood. The top end of the engine is '57 style pieces; heads, intake, carb, throttle bellcrank...

I followed the TV linkage adjustment procedure as closely as I could and ended up unscrewing the adjustment piece, lengthening the rod. The slipping, squealing & shaking went away.

Not sure if this matches anything else, it's just what happened.

I read somewhere the shift levers on a T-Bird FOM use levers on the side of the trans that are upside down from the 'full-sized car' versions. Not sure how true that is or if it even makes a difference.

Just wondering (as I often do ... ...), you posted it came with a FYB 256 which is most likely from a 54 MERC. Were you able to ID the TRANS that came in it?

You are correct on the shift lever(s) position(s) as one was for a column shift car and the other arrangement for a floor/console shift car.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

POST #53

Any-who, the actual mid-case was not introduced until the 1955 model run. The trans MERC used before was the small case but was named the MERC-O-MATIC for their advertising reasons.

The ad you showed threw me also as it says 1952-53 and 56. I see where a small case may have been used in some 56 MERC's. Let's just hope the kit it is quality.

!!! HOT NEWS FLASH !!!

XXX - The actual mid-size case FM (MERC-O-MATIC in this instance) was introduced during the 1954 model run.

!!! 2ND HOT NEWS FLASH !!!

Disregard above info about 1954 MERC MID-CASE SIZE INTRO.

1955 - 1957 MERC-O-MATIC - 1955 1957 LINC TURBO-DRIVE SINGLE RANGE.

I must be hallucinating again ...

[Daves55Sedan]

[QUOTE=Merc Cruzer;2032611]You can adjust the firmness of the shift with the TV rod. Unscrewing the top "Y" piece, will make the rod longer, and will make the shift harder. Screwing it down, making the rod shorter, will make the shift softer. If you unscrew the top piece too far you will loose the kick down./QUOTE]
Having been familiar with the Fordomatic shop manual and adjustments of the kick-down shift rod, I would exercise great caution with the above.
My policy is: #1) use Dexron/Mercon fluid. #2) Adjust the kick down rod EXACTLY the way the shop manual calls for and do not make further adjustments just to mask something else possibly being wrong. Leave that adjustment alone after it has been corrected per the instructions in the shop manual. It says DAMAGE can result if the kick-down is adjusted too far.
I've been using Dexron/Mercon ATF since the mid '80's in both my Fordomatics. I has been flawless and long-lasting.

[Daves55Sedan]

BTW, if you go in to chain auto parts stores, you will see tons of MERCON V ATF on the shelves. That may not be the proper fluid for a '50's Fordomatic.
You may be able to get brand X Dexron/Mercon ATF at some farm supply stores like Rural King, but I am not recommending them unless you can verify the contents matches with Dexron/Mercon specs.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

BTW, if you go in to chain auto parts stores, you will see tons of MERCON V ATF on the shelves. That may not be the proper fluid for a '50's Fordomatic.
You may be able to get brand X Dexron/Mercon ATF at some farm supply stores like Rural King, but I am not recommending them unless you can verify the contents matches with Dexron/Mercon specs.

Dave,

Just wondering, would you recommend Dextron/Mercon ATF over Type F?

As you know, from one of my prior post, I changed the fluid to Type F and am now monitoring the performance every time I take the car out, to see if there is a difference in performance. So far nothing.

Is your avatar Ford, a two door post car? I am looking into the factory door guards for my 53' Merc convertible (BG-19292-A). The measurement from the bottom of belt molding to the bottom of the door is 30". All I seem to be able to find is ones that are 28". I am trying to figure out what the 28" ones fit.