oil detergant or non det.

[G.M.]

Heres a picture of some of the sludge I removed out of an original 38 engine that sat 45 years. Cleaned it good with diesel fuel, replaced the standard mains and rod bearing. The original bearings showed very little wear. Did the MMO oil job on it, checked the oil pressure and compression and they were good. Some of the valves are 1 or 2 thousanths wide so I will reseat them. G.M.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by G.M.

Heres a picture of some of the sludge I removed.

Looks like agglomerate to me.

(Trying to use my new vocabulary word I just learned from Uncle Bob.)

Or, is it the "New! Super Lubricity Formula" that is on the label.

[[email protected]]

See what I mean? You'll not get a definitive answer. You'll read a lot of sound reasoning and in the end you'll make up your own mind. Something I read, maybe in Prof Henry's post is that we probably don't drive these vehicles enough between oil changes for it to make a difference. In my 46 years as a shade tree mechanic with all the experts and other shade tree mechanics helping me in the end I've found I've always come up right by doing what I thought best. And all this was tempered with the knowledge I gained from experts and shade tree mechanics. Oh, and like I said before, this is possibly the most hashed over topic on these forums. Good luck friend.

[[email protected]]

Oh my God, I just went back and reread some of the posts I'd gleaned a little to quickly. It seems our good friend prof henry has gone to law school. Isn't that where people become lawyers. Well there goes his credibility. OK, I'm being sarcastic and a little envious. I never went much past the 10th grade in high school and I'm a little short on formal education and therefore find it necessary to resist belittling most people with more knowledge than I. So I guess the bottom line has become that I really respect prof henry and really appreciate his great sense of humor but also know my place and will leave this particular conversation. If you need me I'll be laying in the corner by my dish. Is "belittling" a word?

[[email protected]]

Hey wait, I've got an idea. Let's run this one past the Mythbusters.

[Old Henry]

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Originally Posted by [email protected]

One guy will have a valid answer for running nondetergent.

OK. I'm ready for it. Who are you? You "one guy that will have a valid answer for running non-detergent." Come on. Let's hear something other than "We'll, shortly after we put detergent oil in our car it blew up." Come on. What kind of scientific evidence is that. Has anybody's engine ever died for any other reason than that they just put detergent oil in it?

OK. Here I am without a life after 11:00 P.M. Better go to bed before someone takes me up on this and comes up with some really scientific evidence to prove their point.

Oh, BTW, I was a debater in High School as well. Can you tell?

Don't take me too seriously. I'm just trying to have some fun while trying to go to sleep.

(I might have gone into politics but I couldn't stand the scrutiny of the media. They are brutal! Wouldn't put my wife and family through that. I wouldn't put ME through that. Besides, my credibility is low enough as it is just being a lawyer. Imagine if I was a politician on top of that.)

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Isn't that where people become lawyers. Well there goes his credibility.

Rodney Dangerfield is our profession's poster child.
"We don't get no respect. No, respect at all I tell ya."
(You thought it must be Abe Lincoln. Nah, Rodney's our man.)

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Is "belittling" a word?

be·lit·tle (b-ltl)
tr.v. be·lit·tled, be·lit·tling, be·lit·tles 1. To represent or speak of as contemptibly small or unimportant; disparage: a person who belittled our efforts to do the job right.
2. To cause to seem less than another or little: The size of the office tower belittles the surrounding buildings. See Synonyms at decry.

We get that a lot.
Ever heard a good lawyer joke?
Well, there you have it.

(I love this thread)

[Marv]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

OK. I'm ready for it. Who are you? You "one guy that will have a valid answer for running non-detergent." Come on. Let's hear something other than "We'll, shortly after we put detergent oil in our car it blew up." Come on. What kind of scientific evidence is that. Has anybody's engine ever died for any other reason than that they just put detergent oil in it?

OK. Here I am without a life after 11:00 P.M. Better go to bed before someone takes me up on this and comes up with some really scientific evidence to prove their point.

Oh, BTW, I was a debater in High School as well. Can you tell?

Don't take me too seriously. I'm just trying to have some fun while trying to go to sleep.

(I might have gone into politics but I couldn't stand the scrutiny of the media. They are brutal! Wouldn't put my wife and family through that. I wouldn't put ME through that. Besides, my credibility is low enough as it is just being a lawyer. Imagine if I was a politician on top of that.)

The point was not that using detergent oil would blow the engine , it was that after runnig non detergent oil, if you used detergent it would clean the engine and plug the oil filter and cut grime loose that would ruin your bearings. If non detergent oil was so god we would be running it in new fords and changing oil every 2000 miles and engines would still be getting overhauled every 40 or 50,000 miles if they lasted that long. I do not use non detergent in any of my engines unless the weed eater oil is non detergent and it has synthetic additives in it. Marv

[Erik the Awful]

Engine mechanical technology hasn't changed much since the 1920's but motor oil has changed a bunch. Modern long-life 15-40 motor oil, as compounded for HD diesel engines is so far superior to any previous motor oil, I seriously wonder why any operator would consider anything else. DO start it out with an engine that is reasonably clean inside. DON'T look for pour-in chemicals to do your obligatory clean out.

[Uncle Bob]

It occurs to me that my earlier message may have been somewhat misunderstood. Just in case, cleaning out accumulated sludge before putting an engine into service should be done regardless of oil choice. Even a "non-detergent" oil can dislodge "chunks" due to oil flow.

Also, we are all capable of learning things correctly about outcomes, even though we may not fully understand the technical causes. For the word mavens in addition to Henry (I know you're out there) it's called learning empirically. Unfortunately we may assume causes that are either incomplete or wrong, even though our remediation is appropriate. There have been several other notions tossed out in the flow of conversation here that are full of stories/reasons/myths. But enough of that.

Ol' Henry.............trained as a lawyer? Considered politics, however briefly? AND from Utah?

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Ol' Henry.............trained as a lawyer? Considered politics, however briefly? AND from Utah?

There ya go! Me and Rodney all over again.



One more bit of ammo for your ridiculing: I sang in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir for over 6 years!
Keep it coming. Keep it coming.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

One more bit of ammo for your ridiculing: I sang in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir for over 6 years!

That would depend on which you sang; bass, tenor, alto or soprano.,

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

That would depend on which you sang; bass, tenor, alto or soprano.,

Well, at least you knew the four parts that could be sung.

[David J]

Does your pan have the huge drain plug ? If yes maybe a dental mirror & a light can be used to see if you have any sludge buildup in there . Pulling it is best though besides then you can clean the pickup screen .Your valley being "super clean" eliminates that part of the potential troubles . Doesn't take much loosened crud to block the feed-drain holes there but again - that is not a worry here . If you can verify the pan is clean using modern good detergent oil is not an issue . I use castrol 20-50 in my 33-34 stuff & 15w40 rotella T in the John Deeres . ONLY IF THEY ARE CLEAN INSIDE . If they are not clean inside they get cleaned before using . I don't really care what you want to call it when or why crap comes loose but this crap can DEFINATELY plug drain-feed holes & pickup screens . Again the fact the valley area is "super clean" kinda tells me you are draining out detergent oil . Check the pan though . Why is it that threads on this subject seem to end up in the abstract ? He asked a pretty simple question but then I am not a holder of a THD in "thinkology" { I believe the wizard of OZ gave the only one of those to the scarecrow } in 1939. David J

Originally Posted by jan bogert

not sure, when i got it took out the drain plug, and a cleaning agent ONLY came out about a pint of it. when i took off the intake, and heads it was super clean inside

[[email protected]]

Sorry guys, had to go out and change oil in the truck. I put in non-detergent. I also put on a new filter. I didn't want my engine to get "full" of sludge. But then I digress. Now where were we... Oh yeah, we were bashing Old Henry. I do have to admit Old (what the heck kind of name is Old?) forgive me, I do have to admit Old, for a lawyer you seem like a pretty good guy. Now as far as some of the rest of you guys, let's see you hang your training and professions out for the rest of us to see. Mormon Tabernacle Choir huh? Did your Rabbi know it at the time?

[paul2748]

[QUOTE=Like others have said, drop the pan, clean it out, maybe throw a coat of paint on it, replace the gasket and refill with whatever you feel comfortable with. Whatever winds up going in is going to be a better lubricant than some of the stuff your engine has likely had in it before.[/QUOTE]

Never paint the inside of an oil pan.

[More Dust than Rust]

I don't believe I said to paint the interior, but maybe you're just offering additional advise or ideas which is what I hope this forum is for.

Up here in the Northeast especially in the spring when the nights are cool and the air gets warm during the day, a lot of condensate forms on pans causing the outside to rust easily. Just figured it is easier for him to paint it on a bench instead of upside down on his back.

BTW didn't the original post start off with a recently flushed and clean engine? Somehow we have gotten into what to run in a cruddy engine.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Sorry guys, had to go out and change oil in the truck. I put in non-detergent. I also put on a new filter. I didn't want my engine to get "full" of sludge. But then I digress. Now where were we... Oh yeah, we were bashing Old Henry. I do have to admit Old (what the heck kind of name is Old?) forgive me, I do have to admit Old, for a lawyer you seem like a pretty good guy. Now as far as some of the rest of you guys, let's see you hang your training and professions out for the rest of us to see. Mormon Tabernacle Choir huh? Did your Rabbi know it at the time?

You guys got me so into this conversation I put Non-detergent when I meant to say detergent. That's it I quit you guys can have this goofy thread. Where did Old Henry go?

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I do have to admit Old, for a lawyer you seem like a pretty good guy.

Now cut that out. You're about to make me cry. Remember, us lawyers aren't used to anyone saying anything nice about us.

(I thought you were going to be laying in your corner by your dish.)