Roadster side curtain question

[Girl with wrench]

I'm about to make a set of side curtains for my '31 Standard Roadster. After searching this site and the web, I still do not understand how the quarter panels attach to the top irons? There is a cinch fitting in the top iron, but it seems to be too far forward and the pictures I have found do not have enough details to help.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Girl with sewing machine

[tbirdtbird]

If anyone in your club has a set it is much easier to copy something already done up.

LeBarron Bonney is close to you in Amesbury, MA.
Maybe get their catalogue and see what pix are in there. You might try talking to them on the phone; they have patterns but usually you have to buy stuff from them else they won't let the patterns out. Maybe if you bought the material from them? You'll need binding and fasteners and such any way. Side curtains use a lot of so-called "lift-the-dot" fasteners

Something to consider: the original side curtains had a greatly reduced clear viewing area. (That clear plastic is called "Eisenglass"), and the driver's side was worse because a special flap was sewed in allowing, supposedly, for the driver to stick his/her arm out for hand signaling. But unless you have the body dimensions of a small child that flap is very hard to use; and you prolly have directionals on your car anyway.

In any event, if you don't mind deviating from the original design, and since you are gonna sew your own, you may want to consider expanding the eisenglass area for better visability and safety.

I have had a couple customers bring me their original design for me to enlarge the eisenglass

[glenn in camino]

I just installed a set of LB side curtains on a friend's 31 deluxe roadster. There are some holes and special fasteners in the top irons. Take your camera & tape measure and go look at some other roadster's. Several years ago I made the side curtains for my 29 phaeton and my 29 station wagon. I don't sew, so I assembled them with staples and took them to an upholstery shop to be sewed.

[Keith True]

Depending on where you are in N.H. you could be 4 minutes or 4 hours from LeBaron Bonney.I have a standard roadster you could look at,I'm in Epping,15 minutes from the seacoast.Also,are you sure you have a standard roadster? The 31 standard is a very rare bird.I went back and forth with a guy years ago trying to find something for his standard,only to find it was a deluxe.He thought he had a standard because it had a rear mounted spare.The everyday person thinks the Deluxe roadster has side mounts.The 31 Deluxe went back to a rear mounted spare.A side view of your top irons/bows would tell the difference.

[C26Pinelake]

For your own. Sake, don't reinvent the wheel ! Find someone with a roadster and do a copy job ! Good luck and let me assure you, you will need it if you don't cooy ! Wayne

[Keith True]

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Actually,I have a new set of standard side curtains that could be copied.I never used them,as my top was made in the 50's by a canvas shop and they won't fit.My rear curtain wraps around the sides a little more than original,and the top curtain hangs down a little more than it should.I have a new LB top that I may never get around to putting on.

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

Something to consider: the original side curtains had a greatly reduced clear viewing area. (That clear plastic is called "Eisenglass"), and the driver's side was worse because a special flap was sewed in allowing, supposedly, for the driver to stick his/her arm out for hand signaling. But unless you have the body dimensions of a small child that flap is very hard to use; and you prolly have directionals on your car anyway.

In any event, if you don't mind deviating from the original design, and since you are gonna sew your own, you may want to consider expanding the eisenglass area for better visability and safety.

From the outside, original Model A side curtains do appear to offer insufficient clear viewing area compared to some other models. However, I don't find the viewing area above the flap on my phaeton restrictive at all. You'd need to be quite vertically challenged to be unable to get a good view out the side of a standard side curtain. If that was the case, you'd probably have a struggle to reach the pedals as well!

I reckon you should sit in the car behind example of each before you make up your mind.

My AR phaeton's front side curtains (if I can describe them that way ) are actually roller blinds mounted on brackets attached to the top irons. When lowered, they attach to a single hook on the outside of the door, just visible at the bottom of the flap in the photo below (if you squint a bit!).

Here's one of the side curtains, detached from car:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictur...460070&thumb=1

While these appear to be an after market accessory (my front doors still have the holes for the posts) and may perhaps be peculiar to Australia (?), I find them to be really handy, as the side curtain is always there and can be pulled down in 2 shakes of a billy goat's tail, as opposed to stopping to retrieve them out of the tray in the back seat area and fitting from outside of the vehicle. They do, however, increase the number of moving parts to be repaired when they decide to stop operating correctly!

Just something else to consider. So many opinions!

[spinelll]

Originally Posted by Girl with wrench

I'm about to make a set of side curtains for my '31 Standard Roadster.
Girl with sewing machine

Exactly what material are they made from? Canvass? Some type of "treated" canvas?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by spinelll

Exactly what material are they made from? Canvass? Some type of "treated" canvas?

It's the same material as the top, but also has some stiffening material sewn inside some of the pieces. You'd have to see some in person to be able to copy them.

[modelAtony]

Originally Posted by Girl with wrench

I'm about to make a set of side curtains for my '31 Standard Roadster. After searching this site and the web, I still do not understand how the quarter panels attach to the top irons? There is a cinch fitting in the top iron, but it seems to be too far forward and the pictures I have found do not have enough details to help.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Girl with sewing machine

About a year ago, someone posted a picture of completely clear eisenglass side curtains he had made. Only had the binding area in material to sew. To someone who has driven with curtains you will learn the solid clear sure is nice for seeing out. I have been looking for these pictures on the barn but can't find them . I made copies of the pictures but I can't find them If you don't have to have the orig. look these are really great . Have fun modelAtony tony white Lafayette, LA

[tbirdtbird]

LB calls their topping 'stayfast'. If you are a boater, you would recognize this material as being similar to Sunbrella. It is rugged stuff (meaning it holds up to weather and sun very well). Old fashioned canvas will sun-rot in short order.

They have the tan color material made to their specs, as the modern day tan is not the same shade. If black, no problem; black is black.

Def. get a LB catalogue and peruse it before starting much of anything.

I am glad the gentleman from OZ can see out of original design side curtains. Few can. And of course we are talking about looking out; you do not have to look in very often while driving. I am 6' tall and can't see out the curtains much and especially can't use the outside rear view mirrors. And of course your blind spot becomes the size of a football field. Perhaps this person is accomplished driving with his eyes closed.

to each his own

[Girl with wrench]

Thanks everyone for helpful advice on side curtains.Here’s what I’m planning to do – and why.
LB is close, but I do not have the budget to buy their side curtains.I called them for advice on making my own and was informed that they sell side curtains not advice.Fair enough.I have their catalogue and will buy hardware from them, but could use some help figuring out what I need.
I’ve never seen a set of side curtains and no one in my club has them.I am trying to reverse engineer my curtains based on photos and the hardware already installed on the car.
Plan to make my curtains out of cotton canvas with heavy gauge vinyl windows. My choice of materials is limited by the strength of my sewing machine.Using a heavy duty jeans needle on domestic machine.
Post from Texas mentioned that sun is tough on canvas.True, but not a problem here in NH.Only wish we had more sun!Rain and cold are the challenges here.
To make the canvas waterproof, I am going seal the fabric with latex paint.No, I’m not kidding.It works.In fact, the existing 25-year-old canvas roof on my Roadster was fragile, faded, and as absorbent as a sponge.Originally, I had nothing to lose and took a chance that painting the roof would buy me another year. Actually, it turned out so well that the guys in the club thought it was a new roof. Better yet, after two years, it still looks new and sheds water like a champ.(Will attach a photo if you are interested. I’ll even share my fabric painting recipe and technique.But that’s another thread.) Once my new side curtains are constructed, they will get the same paint treatment as the roof both to make them waterproof and so that the sheen of side curtains matches the roof.
I would like the curtains to look pretty close to original design for esthetics, but think I’ll modify slightly to 1- improve the visibility as much as possible and 2 – allow windows to open partially.
Re visibility: I am installing turn signals this winter.Those will eliminate the need for the little hand signal porthole and without that, I can decrease the dimensions of the bottom fabric border.Smaller border equals larger vinyl window.I’m 5’6” so hope I do not have to worry about the top fabric border blocking my visibility.Yes, the quarter panels have windows, not that they are a big help with visibility.
To allow windows to open partially, I am going to sew zippers along the top edge and back edge of each vinyl window (door panels only).The black zippers in black fabric will be obvious from inside the car, but hardly discernable from the outside. Zip at top of window will start from rear corner and open forward.Zip in rear edge of window will start at top corner and open down.This way, I can open a little or a lot for ventilation - and unzip enough to flop the window open to pick up coffee at the drive-thru!
Having explained all this, here is my problem:I have already made the two quarter panels, installed them the way I thought would work, took the car for a test drive, and the panels pulled free at the top of the triangle.Frustrating thing is that until that sudden failure, the quarter panels kept the breeze down and made driving comfortable on a crisp day.
So, exactly how does the quarter panel attach to the top irons?Bottom edge attaches securely to the body socket fitting.The rear edge overlaps the roof and attaches thru grommets in the roof. But, what hardware secures the top point?No, I do not want to resort to Velcro, but will if necessary.I definitely want the option of driving with quarter panels alone.Did original quarter panels stay on without the door panels?Guidance appreciated and pictures would be great.Thanks.

[tbirdtbird]

On pg 80-81 of their catalogue, they show the many types of fasteners. pg 80 shows what they call 'durable fasteners' which you and I would call boat snaps; 'common sense' which I do not think apply to an A, and lift-the-dot which do apply to an A, specifically where the front edge of the curtain wraps around the front of the windshield stanchion.
pg 81 shows 'cinch fasteners' which to me are actually 2 different types of fastener, and also body sockets which you already have in the door. One of the types of 'cinch fasteners' is the male component to mate with the body socket.

When I sewed up the side curtains for my deluxe phaeton i had a devil of a time getting out of them what was supposed to hold the curtains on the top where the irons are, even tho i bought beaucoup dollars worth of material from them. No one ever said they were easy to deal with. In fact, I dumped the first saleslady I had on the phone after a few interactions and ended up with Liz, who was more helpful than anyone I have ever talked to there. I do not know what their problem is since very very few people will attempt to sew their own curtains.

Anyway, I had never seen a deluxe phaeton with side curtains and neither had anyone else. so i had nothing to go on at all.

I suspect that the fasteners on the top irons are lift-the-dot. But I cannot swear to this.

Since they show what I call boat snaps in the catalogue, I gave it some thought, and figured, hell, I am deviating from original design anyway, so why not just use boat snaps at the top and be done. The top overlaps these snaps anyway so they are not obvious.

I had also made so many changes in the original design, in order to not only keep out rain, but to keep in AC, that at that point I just wanted them to stay on the car. To that end I also used velcro to keep the front and rear curtains joined in the middle since they want to balloon out otherwise when driving

If you want to stay original, you need someone to come forward with pix. One of your responders said he had some you could look at; from Epping, I believe. A golden opportunity. A pic of the top of the curtain will tell you what type of fastener was used. Surely their is a Barner with roadster side curtains.

Take your time with the research, it will pay off.

[Girl with wrench]

Tbirdx2, Thanks for advice. I'll try to pm that Ford Barn gentleman in Epping. Examining a real live set of side curtains would be very helpful. I'll report back. Maybe even post some pictures. That might help another DIY curtain maker sometime in the future.

[Girl with wrench]

Keith True - Thanks for info about rear mount versus side mount spares. I did not know that a Deluxe could have a rear mount. Based on the height of the windshield and the configuration of the top irons, my car is a Standard.

I would be so grateful to you if I could have a chance to look at your side curtains. I’ll send you a PM. Thanks so much.

[tbirdtbird]

OK, I was able to wade thru some yr old email from LBB.
I found a diagram that I was not able to find when I needed it, tho I doubt it would have changed what I did.
According to this, (which is for a DELUXE; the standard may be different) the top edge attaches to the irons (wood in your case I believe) via a cinch fastener. The male part of this is a protruding stub with a tiny locking lever at the tip. The female part of this is merely what I would call a grommet, the type which you find in a commercial tarp from harbor freight, etc. They call this part both a grommet or eyelet. Their PN for the 'eyelet' are A23-E for the grommet and A23-W for the accompanying washer. The male component will vary based on whether you are screwing into wood or metal, and how many 'eyelets' will attach to it (longer vs shorter stubs). For example A23-1W is 'single' to me meaning only one eyelet will fit on, and it has a wood screw base.

Their website has pix of these numbers. But you already have to know what you want before you look there.

To me, this type of fastener is kinda hokey and given how the curtains want to blow off and around when driving, the lift-a-dot would be better, or the boat snaps (which you can get in any hdwe store). The cinch method would be great if all the car did was sit there at a standstill. After I test drove my initial side curtain fastening I realized I was gonna have to do a lot more to keep them in place.

To make things more confusing, on the same catalogue page pg 81 under cinch fasteners they show the body socket method with corresponding male piece, which clearly can only be used on the door itself. To me this is in no way related to the rest of the cinch fasteners.

You need to do more research and decide for yourself.

Keep us posted.

Why this info is so hard to get out of them I have no idea. In my opinion they are stiffling themselves of potential business. For the very very few who would have the nerve to sew up their own curtains they are risking loosing the sale of the fasteners, eisenglass, and fabric.

I did persevere and bought all my supplies from them, but of course I wanted the special tan fabric; so that it would match the top I bought from them years earlier.

As I was initially wrestling with their patterns, I came to realize that the fasteners would never be in the right place unless I installed them myself. They want you to draw the position of the fasteners on the pattern for them.
Then, of course, if some don't line up, it is your fault for not marking in the correct place. This and several other issues is what triggered me to sew my own. Fortunately, Miles had a semester of upholstery under his belt from McPherson and he taught me to sew.

[Keith True]

I don't know what it is like now,but the curtains used to be sent with a raw front edge to custom fit them to your car.After 85 years no two cars are alike.I have a very original standard,when parked next to another standard a couple of my fasteners are an inch off by comparison.Lee Atherton,(founder and owner of LB)pointed out to me that if the windshield is tweaked just a hair,or if somebody got a little heavy handed with the top,those little differences can make an inch of difference for the fastener.

[Phred]

Girl,

I'm curious about the latex paint, canvas top idea and I understand your need for a short term fix.

Did you use regular outdoor house paint? Straight out of the can, or how much did you thin the paint?

How did it hold up when folding the top down and up, or did you just leave the top up and never fold down?

Thanks

[Girl with wrench]

Originally Posted by Phred

Girl,

I'm curious about the latex paint, canvas top idea and I understand your need for a short term fix.

Did you use regular outdoor house paint? Straight out of the can, or how much did you thin the paint?

How did it hold up when folding the top down and up, or did you just leave the top up and never fold down?

Thanks

Phred -

I just posted a new thread "Roadster roof paint" to answer your questions. Hope this helps. Let me know if I can provide more info to help you.

[Girl with wrench]

Originally Posted by Keith True

I don't know what it is like now,but the curtains used to be sent with a raw front edge to custom fit them to your car.After 85 years no two cars are alike.I have a very original standard,when parked next to another standard a couple of my fasteners are an inch off by comparison.Lee Atherton,(founder and owner of LB)pointed out to me that if the windshield is tweaked just a hair,or if somebody got a little heavy handed with the top,those little differences can make an inch of difference for the fastener.

Keith True, yesterday, I tried to send you a PM about side curtains. Never done one before. Did you get it?

[Girl with wrench]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

OK, I was able to wade thru some yr old email from LBB.
I found a diagram that I was not able to find when I needed it, tho I doubt it would have changed what I did.
According to this, (which is for a DELUXE; the standard may be different) the top edge attaches to the irons (wood in your case I believe) via a cinch fastener. The male part of this is a protruding stub with a tiny locking lever at the tip. The female part of this is merely what I would call a grommet, the type which you find in a commercial tarp from harbor freight, etc. They call this part both a grommet or eyelet. Their PN for the 'eyelet' are A23-E for the grommet and A23-W for the accompanying washer. The male component will vary based on whether you are screwing into wood or metal, and how many 'eyelets' will attach to it (longer vs shorter stubs). For example A23-1W is 'single' to me meaning only one eyelet will fit on, and it has a wood screw base.

Their website has pix of these numbers. But you already have to know what you want before you look there.

To me, this type of fastener is kinda hokey and given how the curtains want to blow off and around when driving, the lift-a-dot would be better, or the boat snaps (which you can get in any hdwe store). The cinch method would be great if all the car did was sit there at a standstill. After I test drove my initial side curtain fastening I realized I was gonna have to do a lot more to keep them in place.

To make things more confusing, on the same catalogue page pg 81 under cinch fasteners they show the body socket method with corresponding male piece, which clearly can only be used on the door itself. To me this is in no way related to the rest of the cinch fasteners.

You need to do more research and decide for yourself.

Keep us posted.

Why this info is so hard to get out of them I have no idea. In my opinion they are stiffling themselves of potential business. For the very very few who would have the nerve to sew up their own curtains they are risking loosing the sale of the fasteners, eisenglass, and fabric.

I did persevere and bought all my supplies from them, but of course I wanted the special tan fabric; so that it would match the top I bought from them years earlier.

As I was initially wrestling with their patterns, I came to realize that the fasteners would never be in the right place unless I installed them myself. They want you to draw the position of the fasteners on the pattern for them.
Then, of course, if some don't line up, it is your fault for not marking in the correct place. This and several other issues is what triggered me to sew my own. Fortunately, Miles had a semester of upholstery under his belt from McPherson and he taught me to sew.

TbirdTbird -

Yes, my top irons (not wood) have one of those cinch fittings (machine base, threaded into top iron). The location of the cinch fitting looks perfect for the rear anchor point for the small panel above the door, but that doesn't help with the quarter panel. The fitting is so far forward that the quarter panels do not reach there. I agree that a Lift-a-dot fitting might hold the curtains better than that little spring loaded finger on the cinch fitting. I could change to the Lift-a-dot, but that still leaves the fitting in the wrong place. Maybe time for me to give in and use Velcro, but I'm still puzzled about how this worked originally.

[Keith True]

I didn't get it.But,somebody sent me one over a month ago and it just showed up in the last couple of days.For some reason I can no longer post pictures to this site either.I'll try to send you one and see if it works.

[tbirdtbird]

" The fitting is so far forward that the quarter panels do not reach there."

The irons may not be original, or who knows what happened over 80 yrs.
There are so many variations to top and side curtains because I think because upholstery is the weakest suit of the average restorer, so a lot of guessing goes on. And LBB helps perpetuate these innacuracies since they are so unwilling to share these details.

You may want to consider drilling and tapping your irons to suit. I believe the correct thread is 10-32. I had to add a couple snaps at the top of my curtains because there was precious little up there to hold them in place while driving. Again, they started out perfect for a car at a standstill.

Be forewarned: the irons seem to be very hard metal. Do not make your drill hole too small in diameter. Practice on a piece of equivalent thickness metal on your workbench. Use brand new super sharp taps. Go slow and reverse often, like every 1/2 turn. Use lube; i usually just use PB Blaster which I always have on hand for rusted bolts anyway.

A type of boat snap which you may not be aware of is what I call back-to-back. The local upholstery shop, where I bought some more traditional boat snaps, calls them 'gypsy' snaps. Instead of the usual finished 'button' or dome appearance on the outside of the canvas, there is another male component. This gives you female on the underside of the material, and male on the outside. This allows you to snap another piece of fabric on OVER what you just attached, using the usual male-female snaps on the outer piece of fabric. This can give you overlap of the curtains if you desire.

If Keith is having so much trouble posting pix, can another Barner post some pix for you? Calling all roadster owners!!!!

By the way, why not post a pic yourself of the arrangement of the fasteners which are troubling you
dave

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by Girl with wrench

I'm about to make a set of side curtains for my '31 Standard Roadster. After searching this site and the web, I still do not understand how the quarter panels attach to the top irons? There is a cinch fitting in the top iron, but it seems to be too far forward and the pictures I have found do not have enough details to help.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Girl with sewing machine

Hello Girl with Wrench,
Firstly, congrats on your roadster fabric roof paint formula. It should work well. I was in the care-care formulation business for many years. I still manufacture some washes , polishes, radiator flush and many many polyester products, so I feel qualified to comment thus.
I have an early RHD standard roadster, altered many years ago by a previous owner for more bling, and left like that because I quite like it, tho' I would never destroy originality myself.
It has "vinyl" roof, side curtains, rear quarter curtains, top boot and bag to hold them all. The side curtains are probably non-standard but work well. They have dome snaps along the steel bows, the door tops and to hold the rear quarter panels and the front of the top boot cover when folded down (male parts screwed in to the wooden tack rail behind the bench seat). The sheet metal ones are blind-riveted and the ones into wood are PK screwed. The front of the hood ("top" maybe to you in the US?) is clipped to the windscreen frame with dome snaps and the stanchions use lift-the-dot fasteners for security against the wind. The top ones are double-length to receive both the front end of the rear quarter windows and the side curtains, one on top of the other. This is different from other standard roadsters is see in NZ, because some do not have a top strip on the rear quarter windows, stretching forwards to the front screen stanchion. This strip on mine seals behind the side curtains which overlap it at the top and in turn are overlapped by a side skirt sewn into the top of the hood. This makes the whole thing completely weather proof in this area even at speed in the rain. The photos will show what I mean.
There are side mirrors screwed into the stanchions and the side curtains are slit and held by small straps and "buttons" I made from leather rivets to keep the splits closed over the mirror shanks. I didn't cut the splits and one is slightly misplaced and neither are bound as they should be to tidy the edges. I cannot sew well, though I do collect old sewing machines (typewriters, gramophones, machine tools, old scales and balances....etc etc. It's a lovely disease!).
My wife likes her side curtain on in cold weather, but I hardly ever apply mine, even in the rain, to keep plenty of air in the cab and prevent fogging up.
There is an extra dome snap on each side curtain at the top rear. This is to apply the curtains when parked at night or in the rain without having to fit the two curtain retainer bars into the doors, which saves a few minutes each time. They hold the curtains on well enough when parked and have to be unsnapped to open the doors, since they fasten the side curtains to the short top skirts (part of the top) which hang down half an inch or so outside the side curtains. These latter just flap out of the way when you open the doors and return into place over the side curtains with the wind when moving to keep rain from creeping inside from above. In a storm I would fit the rods into the side curtains for more security in high winds.
My roadster is non-original in snaps etc, but most similar roadsters I see in NZ vary in how the tops are fitted. Mine works very well in bad weather.

PS mixing my NZ and US terminology, “boot” is the cover for the folded down “hood”. Look carefully at the top strip sewn to the rear quarter panel, and see how it starts by clipping on the inside of the steel bow (after the first lift-the-dot clip outside on the windscreen front) and then moves to the outside where the circular cut out is. There is a snap on the outside of the vertical bow element, hidden in the "inside of left rear..." photo, and clipped to the inside of this top strip to fasten it in the middle. I hope this is clear. It is tricky to describe and photograph but can be seen if you count all the snaps on the "top strip quarter panel" photo as the second from the right, (snap facing "inwards")
I hope this helps
SAJ in NZ

[SAJ]

Hello Again, Girl with Wrench,
Here are two more pics plus a rotation of the annoying sideways pic I sent. They show the L.H side curtain fixed without the bar installed and the front snaps under the brow.
The large radial drill in the background has drilled out many A manifolds for B carbs. It has a 6 foot throat
SAJ in NZ.

[Girl with wrench]

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Hello SAJ - You have a beautiful car. Your radial drill - we call it a drill press - is not half bad, either! Thank you a million times over for sending the excellent photos and taking the time to write a good detailed description of your side curtains and attachment hardware. All makes perfect sense and is just what I needed. It's late here, but I'll write more tomorrow about progress and reciprocate with pictures.

Also, glad my paint recipe meets with your approval. Does this mean I can tell people that it has received international recognition??

[SAJ]

HI Girl With Wrench. Glad to help. Yes your paint does indeed have internationsl recognition now!! There will be many other NZ club members reading this too.
The drill in the pic is a bit different from a drill press. It stands 10 feet high and the radial arm with the head on it is 7 foot long and swings the drill head in a 6 foot arc around the pillar at max extension. It will take a 4 inch drill bit and drill a 3 inch hole with no pilot without a shudder. My cousin at Archdale's In England used to build them and demonstrated this to me.
I have several big drill presses too, but the heads on drill presses only move up and down, not in and out on an arm that swings as well. But you cannot see any of this in the photo taken in front of it.
It is just part of my collecting hobby but very useful too. This is too hard to type on my tablet where the cursor jumps around randomly.
Any more questions, please just ask.
SAJ in NZ
.

[Girl with wrench]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

" The fitting is so far forward that the quarter panels do not reach there."

The irons may not be original, or who knows what happened over 80 yrs.
There are so many variations to top and side curtains because I think because upholstery is the weakest suit of the average restorer, so a lot of guessing goes on. And LBB helps perpetuate these innacuracies since they are so unwilling to share these details.

You may want to consider drilling and tapping your irons to suit. I believe the correct thread is 10-32. I had to add a couple snaps at the top of my curtains because there was precious little up there to hold them in place while driving. Again, they started out perfect for a car at a standstill.

Be forewarned: the irons seem to be very hard metal. Do not make your drill hole too small in diameter. Practice on a piece of equivalent thickness metal on your workbench. Use brand new super sharp taps. Go slow and reverse often, like every 1/2 turn. Use lube; i usually just use PB Blaster which I always have on hand for rusted bolts anyway.

A type of boat snap which you may not be aware of is what I call back-to-back. The local upholstery shop, where I bought some more traditional boat snaps, calls them 'gypsy' snaps. Instead of the usual finished 'button' or dome appearance on the outside of the canvas, there is another male component. This gives you female on the underside of the material, and male on the outside. This allows you to snap another piece of fabric on OVER what you just attached, using the usual male-female snaps on the outer piece of fabric. This can give you overlap of the curtains if you desire.

If Keith is having so much trouble posting pix, can another Barner post some pix for you? Calling all roadster owners!!!!

By the way, why not post a pic yourself of the arrangement of the fasteners which are troubling you
dave

Dave, great explanation of the snap on top of snap- or gypsy snap - fitting. I have that fitting on the tack rail at the corner of the roof. Assumed it was to attach a boot (which I do not have). One more smidgeon of info and a mystery solved.

Also, thanks for step by step instructions on how to tap the top irons, but no need for me to install a new fitting. With your gypsy snap info and photos from SAJ, I figured out my existing cinch fitting in the top iron IS correct. Another teaspoon of information. Only a quart to go and I'll have side curtains!
Thanks for your help. Will be back for more soon.

[Tom from Drippin']

Attached (I hope) is a photo of clear side curtains I fabricated.

[tbirdtbird]

WoW!!!!
Gotta love it; nice job!!

I just looked up Dripping Springs because I had never heard of it. Man I have been so close so many times. If you make it to Johnson city you are there! What a beautiful area, I will have to check it out.

[Tom Wesenberg]

That's fantastic. Want to hang out in the frozen north and make a set for my Phaeton?

[Girl with wrench]

Tom from Drippin'
Wow, love your clear side curtains! I'm too far into making my semi-traditional version to turn back, but now wish I had thought to make a set like yours.
Thanks for photos. Being able to see through your panels has solved another mystery for me. I was still stumped about the shape of the door panel at the top of the stanchion.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Originally Posted by Girl with wrench

Tom from Drippin'
Wow, love your clear side curtains! I'm too far into making my semi-traditional version to turn back, but now wish I had thought to make a set like yours.
Thanks for photos. Being able to see through your panels has solved another mystery for me. I was still stumped about the shape of the door panel at the top of the stanchion.

Maybe a combination of the two would be the best approach, using canvas for the edge with 2" canvas then the clear vinyl. I had the original style when I had my 29 roadster but only used them once due to the reduced visibility, on my 30 std. roadster I didn't order them but probably would if I could get them with more visibility as mine is a driver. I would think you'd want some material to protect the paint that's why I would prefer more canvas material near the snap area.

[tbirdtbird]

"but probably would if I could get them with more visibility as mine is a driver."

FWIW when I asked LBB if they could make the eisenglass larger they said they would make it as large as possible (whatever that is) but declined to tell me exactly what that was going to be. Another reason we sewed up our own