Roadster side curtain question

[Girl with wrench]

I'm about to make a set of side curtains for my '31 Standard Roadster. After searching this site and the web, I still do not understand how the quarter panels attach to the top irons? There is a cinch fitting in the top iron, but it seems to be too far forward and the pictures I have found do not have enough details to help.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Girl with sewing machine

[tbirdtbird]

If anyone in your club has a set it is much easier to copy something already done up.

LeBarron Bonney is close to you in Amesbury, MA.
Maybe get their catalogue and see what pix are in there. You might try talking to them on the phone; they have patterns but usually you have to buy stuff from them else they won't let the patterns out. Maybe if you bought the material from them? You'll need binding and fasteners and such any way. Side curtains use a lot of so-called "lift-the-dot" fasteners

Something to consider: the original side curtains had a greatly reduced clear viewing area. (That clear plastic is called "Eisenglass"), and the driver's side was worse because a special flap was sewed in allowing, supposedly, for the driver to stick his/her arm out for hand signaling. But unless you have the body dimensions of a small child that flap is very hard to use; and you prolly have directionals on your car anyway.

In any event, if you don't mind deviating from the original design, and since you are gonna sew your own, you may want to consider expanding the eisenglass area for better visability and safety.

I have had a couple customers bring me their original design for me to enlarge the eisenglass

[glenn in camino]

I just installed a set of LB side curtains on a friend's 31 deluxe roadster. There are some holes and special fasteners in the top irons. Take your camera & tape measure and go look at some other roadster's. Several years ago I made the side curtains for my 29 phaeton and my 29 station wagon. I don't sew, so I assembled them with staples and took them to an upholstery shop to be sewed.

[Keith True]

Depending on where you are in N.H. you could be 4 minutes or 4 hours from LeBaron Bonney.I have a standard roadster you could look at,I'm in Epping,15 minutes from the seacoast.Also,are you sure you have a standard roadster? The 31 standard is a very rare bird.I went back and forth with a guy years ago trying to find something for his standard,only to find it was a deluxe.He thought he had a standard because it had a rear mounted spare.The everyday person thinks the Deluxe roadster has side mounts.The 31 Deluxe went back to a rear mounted spare.A side view of your top irons/bows would tell the difference.

[C26Pinelake]

For your own. Sake, don't reinvent the wheel ! Find someone with a roadster and do a copy job ! Good luck and let me assure you, you will need it if you don't cooy ! Wayne

[Keith True]

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Actually,I have a new set of standard side curtains that could be copied.I never used them,as my top was made in the 50's by a canvas shop and they won't fit.My rear curtain wraps around the sides a little more than original,and the top curtain hangs down a little more than it should.I have a new LB top that I may never get around to putting on.

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

Something to consider: the original side curtains had a greatly reduced clear viewing area. (That clear plastic is called "Eisenglass"), and the driver's side was worse because a special flap was sewed in allowing, supposedly, for the driver to stick his/her arm out for hand signaling. But unless you have the body dimensions of a small child that flap is very hard to use; and you prolly have directionals on your car anyway.

In any event, if you don't mind deviating from the original design, and since you are gonna sew your own, you may want to consider expanding the eisenglass area for better visability and safety.

From the outside, original Model A side curtains do appear to offer insufficient clear viewing area compared to some other models. However, I don't find the viewing area above the flap on my phaeton restrictive at all. You'd need to be quite vertically challenged to be unable to get a good view out the side of a standard side curtain. If that was the case, you'd probably have a struggle to reach the pedals as well!

I reckon you should sit in the car behind example of each before you make up your mind.

My AR phaeton's front side curtains (if I can describe them that way ) are actually roller blinds mounted on brackets attached to the top irons. When lowered, they attach to a single hook on the outside of the door, just visible at the bottom of the flap in the photo below (if you squint a bit!).

Here's one of the side curtains, detached from car:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictur...460070&thumb=1

While these appear to be an after market accessory (my front doors still have the holes for the posts) and may perhaps be peculiar to Australia (?), I find them to be really handy, as the side curtain is always there and can be pulled down in 2 shakes of a billy goat's tail, as opposed to stopping to retrieve them out of the tray in the back seat area and fitting from outside of the vehicle. They do, however, increase the number of moving parts to be repaired when they decide to stop operating correctly!

Just something else to consider. So many opinions!

[spinelll]

Originally Posted by Girl with wrench

I'm about to make a set of side curtains for my '31 Standard Roadster.
Girl with sewing machine

Exactly what material are they made from? Canvass? Some type of "treated" canvas?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by spinelll

Exactly what material are they made from? Canvass? Some type of "treated" canvas?

It's the same material as the top, but also has some stiffening material sewn inside some of the pieces. You'd have to see some in person to be able to copy them.

[modelAtony]

Originally Posted by Girl with wrench

I'm about to make a set of side curtains for my '31 Standard Roadster. After searching this site and the web, I still do not understand how the quarter panels attach to the top irons? There is a cinch fitting in the top iron, but it seems to be too far forward and the pictures I have found do not have enough details to help.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Girl with sewing machine

About a year ago, someone posted a picture of completely clear eisenglass side curtains he had made. Only had the binding area in material to sew. To someone who has driven with curtains you will learn the solid clear sure is nice for seeing out. I have been looking for these pictures on the barn but can't find them . I made copies of the pictures but I can't find them If you don't have to have the orig. look these are really great . Have fun modelAtony tony white Lafayette, LA

[tbirdtbird]

LB calls their topping 'stayfast'. If you are a boater, you would recognize this material as being similar to Sunbrella. It is rugged stuff (meaning it holds up to weather and sun very well). Old fashioned canvas will sun-rot in short order.

They have the tan color material made to their specs, as the modern day tan is not the same shade. If black, no problem; black is black.

Def. get a LB catalogue and peruse it before starting much of anything.

I am glad the gentleman from OZ can see out of original design side curtains. Few can. And of course we are talking about looking out; you do not have to look in very often while driving. I am 6' tall and can't see out the curtains much and especially can't use the outside rear view mirrors. And of course your blind spot becomes the size of a football field. Perhaps this person is accomplished driving with his eyes closed.

to each his own

[Girl with wrench]

Thanks everyone for helpful advice on side curtains.Here’s what I’m planning to do – and why.
LB is close, but I do not have the budget to buy their side curtains.I called them for advice on making my own and was informed that they sell side curtains not advice.Fair enough.I have their catalogue and will buy hardware from them, but could use some help figuring out what I need.
I’ve never seen a set of side curtains and no one in my club has them.I am trying to reverse engineer my curtains based on photos and the hardware already installed on the car.
Plan to make my curtains out of cotton canvas with heavy gauge vinyl windows. My choice of materials is limited by the strength of my sewing machine.Using a heavy duty jeans needle on domestic machine.
Post from Texas mentioned that sun is tough on canvas.True, but not a problem here in NH.Only wish we had more sun!Rain and cold are the challenges here.
To make the canvas waterproof, I am going seal the fabric with latex paint.No, I’m not kidding.It works.In fact, the existing 25-year-old canvas roof on my Roadster was fragile, faded, and as absorbent as a sponge.Originally, I had nothing to lose and took a chance that painting the roof would buy me another year. Actually, it turned out so well that the guys in the club thought it was a new roof. Better yet, after two years, it still looks new and sheds water like a champ.(Will attach a photo if you are interested. I’ll even share my fabric painting recipe and technique.But that’s another thread.) Once my new side curtains are constructed, they will get the same paint treatment as the roof both to make them waterproof and so that the sheen of side curtains matches the roof.
I would like the curtains to look pretty close to original design for esthetics, but think I’ll modify slightly to 1- improve the visibility as much as possible and 2 – allow windows to open partially.
Re visibility: I am installing turn signals this winter.Those will eliminate the need for the little hand signal porthole and without that, I can decrease the dimensions of the bottom fabric border.Smaller border equals larger vinyl window.I’m 5’6” so hope I do not have to worry about the top fabric border blocking my visibility.Yes, the quarter panels have windows, not that they are a big help with visibility.
To allow windows to open partially, I am going to sew zippers along the top edge and back edge of each vinyl window (door panels only).The black zippers in black fabric will be obvious from inside the car, but hardly discernable from the outside. Zip at top of window will start from rear corner and open forward.Zip in rear edge of window will start at top corner and open down.This way, I can open a little or a lot for ventilation - and unzip enough to flop the window open to pick up coffee at the drive-thru!
Having explained all this, here is my problem:I have already made the two quarter panels, installed them the way I thought would work, took the car for a test drive, and the panels pulled free at the top of the triangle.Frustrating thing is that until that sudden failure, the quarter panels kept the breeze down and made driving comfortable on a crisp day.
So, exactly how does the quarter panel attach to the top irons?Bottom edge attaches securely to the body socket fitting.The rear edge overlaps the roof and attaches thru grommets in the roof. But, what hardware secures the top point?No, I do not want to resort to Velcro, but will if necessary.I definitely want the option of driving with quarter panels alone.Did original quarter panels stay on without the door panels?Guidance appreciated and pictures would be great.Thanks.

[tbirdtbird]

On pg 80-81 of their catalogue, they show the many types of fasteners. pg 80 shows what they call 'durable fasteners' which you and I would call boat snaps; 'common sense' which I do not think apply to an A, and lift-the-dot which do apply to an A, specifically where the front edge of the curtain wraps around the front of the windshield stanchion.
pg 81 shows 'cinch fasteners' which to me are actually 2 different types of fastener, and also body sockets which you already have in the door. One of the types of 'cinch fasteners' is the male component to mate with the body socket.

When I sewed up the side curtains for my deluxe phaeton i had a devil of a time getting out of them what was supposed to hold the curtains on the top where the irons are, even tho i bought beaucoup dollars worth of material from them. No one ever said they were easy to deal with. In fact, I dumped the first saleslady I had on the phone after a few interactions and ended up with Liz, who was more helpful than anyone I have ever talked to there. I do not know what their problem is since very very few people will attempt to sew their own curtains.

Anyway, I had never seen a deluxe phaeton with side curtains and neither had anyone else. so i had nothing to go on at all.

I suspect that the fasteners on the top irons are lift-the-dot. But I cannot swear to this.

Since they show what I call boat snaps in the catalogue, I gave it some thought, and figured, hell, I am deviating from original design anyway, so why not just use boat snaps at the top and be done. The top overlaps these snaps anyway so they are not obvious.

I had also made so many changes in the original design, in order to not only keep out rain, but to keep in AC, that at that point I just wanted them to stay on the car. To that end I also used velcro to keep the front and rear curtains joined in the middle since they want to balloon out otherwise when driving

If you want to stay original, you need someone to come forward with pix. One of your responders said he had some you could look at; from Epping, I believe. A golden opportunity. A pic of the top of the curtain will tell you what type of fastener was used. Surely their is a Barner with roadster side curtains.

Take your time with the research, it will pay off.

[Girl with wrench]

Tbirdx2, Thanks for advice. I'll try to pm that Ford Barn gentleman in Epping. Examining a real live set of side curtains would be very helpful. I'll report back. Maybe even post some pictures. That might help another DIY curtain maker sometime in the future.

[Girl with wrench]

Keith True - Thanks for info about rear mount versus side mount spares. I did not know that a Deluxe could have a rear mount. Based on the height of the windshield and the configuration of the top irons, my car is a Standard.

I would be so grateful to you if I could have a chance to look at your side curtains. I’ll send you a PM. Thanks so much.

[tbirdtbird]

OK, I was able to wade thru some yr old email from LBB.
I found a diagram that I was not able to find when I needed it, tho I doubt it would have changed what I did.
According to this, (which is for a DELUXE; the standard may be different) the top edge attaches to the irons (wood in your case I believe) via a cinch fastener. The male part of this is a protruding stub with a tiny locking lever at the tip. The female part of this is merely what I would call a grommet, the type which you find in a commercial tarp from harbor freight, etc. They call this part both a grommet or eyelet. Their PN for the 'eyelet' are A23-E for the grommet and A23-W for the accompanying washer. The male component will vary based on whether you are screwing into wood or metal, and how many 'eyelets' will attach to it (longer vs shorter stubs). For example A23-1W is 'single' to me meaning only one eyelet will fit on, and it has a wood screw base.

Their website has pix of these numbers. But you already have to know what you want before you look there.

To me, this type of fastener is kinda hokey and given how the curtains want to blow off and around when driving, the lift-a-dot would be better, or the boat snaps (which you can get in any hdwe store). The cinch method would be great if all the car did was sit there at a standstill. After I test drove my initial side curtain fastening I realized I was gonna have to do a lot more to keep them in place.

To make things more confusing, on the same catalogue page pg 81 under cinch fasteners they show the body socket method with corresponding male piece, which clearly can only be used on the door itself. To me this is in no way related to the rest of the cinch fasteners.

You need to do more research and decide for yourself.

Keep us posted.

Why this info is so hard to get out of them I have no idea. In my opinion they are stiffling themselves of potential business. For the very very few who would have the nerve to sew up their own curtains they are risking loosing the sale of the fasteners, eisenglass, and fabric.

I did persevere and bought all my supplies from them, but of course I wanted the special tan fabric; so that it would match the top I bought from them years earlier.

As I was initially wrestling with their patterns, I came to realize that the fasteners would never be in the right place unless I installed them myself. They want you to draw the position of the fasteners on the pattern for them.
Then, of course, if some don't line up, it is your fault for not marking in the correct place. This and several other issues is what triggered me to sew my own. Fortunately, Miles had a semester of upholstery under his belt from McPherson and he taught me to sew.

[Keith True]

I don't know what it is like now,but the curtains used to be sent with a raw front edge to custom fit them to your car.After 85 years no two cars are alike.I have a very original standard,when parked next to another standard a couple of my fasteners are an inch off by comparison.Lee Atherton,(founder and owner of LB)pointed out to me that if the windshield is tweaked just a hair,or if somebody got a little heavy handed with the top,those little differences can make an inch of difference for the fastener.

[Phred]

Girl,

I'm curious about the latex paint, canvas top idea and I understand your need for a short term fix.

Did you use regular outdoor house paint? Straight out of the can, or how much did you thin the paint?

How did it hold up when folding the top down and up, or did you just leave the top up and never fold down?

Thanks

[Girl with wrench]

Originally Posted by Phred

Girl,

I'm curious about the latex paint, canvas top idea and I understand your need for a short term fix.

Did you use regular outdoor house paint? Straight out of the can, or how much did you thin the paint?

How did it hold up when folding the top down and up, or did you just leave the top up and never fold down?

Thanks

Phred -

I just posted a new thread "Roadster roof paint" to answer your questions. Hope this helps. Let me know if I can provide more info to help you.

[Girl with wrench]

Originally Posted by Keith True

I don't know what it is like now,but the curtains used to be sent with a raw front edge to custom fit them to your car.After 85 years no two cars are alike.I have a very original standard,when parked next to another standard a couple of my fasteners are an inch off by comparison.Lee Atherton,(founder and owner of LB)pointed out to me that if the windshield is tweaked just a hair,or if somebody got a little heavy handed with the top,those little differences can make an inch of difference for the fastener.

Keith True, yesterday, I tried to send you a PM about side curtains. Never done one before. Did you get it?