The Ford Barn

wrndln · 09-09-2014, 09:07 AM

I have a small leak on the middle front side between the head and the gooseneck on my 28 coupe. When I installed it, I made sure the surface of the gooseneck was completely flat by sanding it flat on sandpaper laying on some plate glass. I believe the head surface is already flat. When I originally installed it, I used a thin paper/cardboard gasket with Permatex. Obviously I didn't do something right, as it leaks. I used paper matches on the outer ends to prevent the gooseneck ears from cracking. I was thinking of using a more authentic thick gasket similar to the asbestos type used by Ford originally. Would using paper matches work as well on the thicker gaskets? I am concerned about cracking the gooseneck when I torque the 2 bolts to 55 lbs. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to prevent the chance of cracking the gooseneck when tightening the head nuts and making it leakless.
Rusty Nelson

Mark in MT · 09-09-2014, 09:25 AM

Rusty: What I do is to forget about the gasket all together and use a thin smear of RTV to seal it up, it won't leak and haven't broken a neck. When it is dry, take a razor knife and trim around the edges and it is almost undectable.

Mark in MT

whirnot · 09-09-2014, 09:33 AM

If the gooseneck is flat, and the head as well, the matches are doing nothing but causing the leak as they are holding it from full contact. I pull the nuts down snug with a regular gasket, and permatex, making sure to alternate from side to side. Then torgue the head using the correct pattern. no problems

Mitch//pa · 09-09-2014, 09:36 AM

i always use the thick copper gasket on the outlet neck. never cracked one or had a leak using them.

TinCup · 09-09-2014, 09:40 AM

I guess I am the bull in the china closet as I have snapped two over the years. None since I started just using RTV. I have used the thin paper as well as the thick copper in the past using the match trick as well. I have never had a problem with leaking using the RTV method.

wrndln · 09-09-2014, 10:11 AM

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Mitch,
What kind of sealer do you use with the thick gasket?
Rusty Nelson

Mitch//pa · 09-09-2014, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrndln

Mitch,
What kind of sealer do you use with the thick gasket?
Rusty Nelson

always dry...
i rarely use sealer on gaskets ,, just in certain strategic spots

it also looks like hell lol

Fred · 09-09-2014, 10:39 AM

I also only use the original type copper filled gasket with no sealer, and have had no problems or leaks.. And this for F/P..

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 09-09-2014, 10:39 AM

Rusty, the reason why they break is because people do not take the time to restore both surfaces. In your case, you cannot use a sealer as you will receive a deduction. Take the time to level both the gasket surfaces with a file or in the Mill, then use a copper gasket that has been annealed and it will be perfect without any leaks.

Purdy Swoft · 09-09-2014, 11:04 AM

I've used both type gaskets over the years and have broken several water necks in 54 years. When I used gaskets I had better luck with copper clad gaskets with Permatex , NO matches and broke very few. I now do as Mark in post # 2 and use no gasket and have never broken A single one that way . I apply a coat of clear RTV silicone and let a set a moment before installation of the upper neck. With some heads and thicker repro water necks you can run out of stud length before the nut tightens and using no gasket also solves this problem.

Tom Wesenberg · 09-09-2014, 11:53 AM

I have broken two when helping a friend who was using paper gaskets. I haven't broken any when using a thin coat of silicone only. I also haven't broken any when using the copper gasket. I usually spray the top and bottom of the copper gasket with Copper Coat, but I'm sure it isn't really needed. I do check the outlet with a straight edge and draw file it flat or even slightly concave in the center. I like to tighten the nuts in at least 3 stages, and when I reach 45 lbs. I let it set overnight and give them another torque to 55 lbs. then let it set again and recheck for 55 lbs. Then I recheck several times after short engine runs until it stays at 55 lbs.

JohnLaVoy · 09-09-2014, 12:52 PM

No gasket!

BILL WILLIAMSON · 09-09-2014, 01:12 PM

I wonder if alujimum re-pro necks would be less prone to breaking??????
Bill W.

Purdy Swoft · 09-09-2014, 01:27 PM

I've wondered the same. I've got one in my collection of stuff. I figure it would be the choice if I ever used an aluminum head .

BILL WILLIAMSON · 09-09-2014, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I've wondered the same. I've got one in my collection of stuff. I figure it would be the choice if I ever used an aluminum head .

Bro Purdy,
The aluminum one worked ok with Minerva's iron head. I bought it cuz it looked polished, in the catalog pic, it wuzn't polished, just rough cast, with a nice Ford logo on it. I didn't paint it, but it received lots of compliments!
Bill W.

CarlG · 09-09-2014, 02:24 PM

This one won't break. (No gasket, just silicone sealant)

supereal · 09-09-2014, 02:48 PM

If you haven't broken at least one water neck, you probably haven't replaced one. Many of the old cast iron necks have cracks between the ears and the body that are almost impossible to detect. We usually just replaced them with repros to save time and trouble.

Purdy Swoft · 09-09-2014, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Bro Purdy,
The aluminum one worked ok with Minerva's iron head. I bought it cuz it looked polished, in the catalog pic, it wuzn't polished, just rough cast, with a nice Ford logo on it. I didn't paint it, but it received lots of compliments!
Bill W.

Yo brother,
I jist went out to my little museum and checked .. Thet aloonieum water neck thet I've got is fer a 29 .. Iffen you want it its yourn.. It ain't rough cast and orten to be too hard to polish up. You could jist put it on vermin fer a purty !!!!!!! Send me a PM and I'll sack it up and send it to ya priority mail.
Yer brother Purdy .

Mitch//pa · 09-09-2014, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Yo brother,
I jist went out to my little museum and checked .. Thet aloonieum water neck thet I've got is fer a 29 .. Iffen you want it its yourn.. It ain't rough cast and orten to be too hard to polish up. You could jist put it on vermin fer a purty !!!!!!! Send me a PM and I'll sack it up and send it to ya priority mail.
Yer brother Purdy .

dad will pack ur neck on thee shelf next to the parts i sent hem.

sorry couldnt resist

Purdy Swoft · 09-09-2014, 04:20 PM

That would be ok. I've had it for years. Tried to sell it once but nobody would give anything for it. Brother Bill can just have it for a purty if he wants it . Its really a good water neck that is just begging to be used

larrys40 · 09-09-2014, 07:54 PM

Now that's Model A camaraderie! And putty good parts to good use!

I concur guys.. I surface them on my resurfacer, also the head surface if I have a head off. I have never broken one yet without a gasket and just RTV. Of course I don't leave any witness to be seen.
Larry

09-09-2014, 09:07 AM	#1
wrndln Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5,162	Installing gooseneck on head I have a small leak on the middle front side between the head and the gooseneck on my 28 coupe. When I installed it, I made sure the surface of the gooseneck was completely flat by sanding it flat on sandpaper laying on some plate glass. I believe the head surface is already flat. When I originally installed it, I used a thin paper/cardboard gasket with Permatex. Obviously I didn't do something right, as it leaks. I used paper matches on the outer ends to prevent the gooseneck ears from cracking. I was thinking of using a more authentic thick gasket similar to the asbestos type used by Ford originally. Would using paper matches work as well on the thicker gaskets? I am concerned about cracking the gooseneck when I torque the 2 bolts to 55 lbs. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to prevent the chance of cracking the gooseneck when tightening the head nuts and making it leakless. Rusty Nelson

09-09-2014, 09:25 AM	#2
Mark in MT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Western MT Posts: 218	Re: Installing gooseneck on head Rusty: What I do is to forget about the gasket all together and use a thin smear of RTV to seal it up, it won't leak and haven't broken a neck. When it is dry, take a razor knife and trim around the edges and it is almost undectable. Mark in MT __________________ Mark in MT Always looking for another opportunity to be wrong.

09-09-2014, 09:33 AM	#3
whirnot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Bend Or. Posts: 1,057	Re: Installing gooseneck on head If the gooseneck is flat, and the head as well, the matches are doing nothing but causing the leak as they are holding it from full contact. I pull the nuts down snug with a regular gasket, and permatex, making sure to alternate from side to side. Then torgue the head using the correct pattern. no problems __________________ Bill Worden 1929 Roadster 1929 Briggs Town Sedan 1930 Closed Cab pickup Smith Motor Compressor 1951 Ford F1 High Desert Model A's

09-09-2014, 09:36 AM	#4
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Installing gooseneck on head i always use the thick copper gasket on the outlet neck. never cracked one or had a leak using them.

09-09-2014, 09:40 AM	#5
TinCup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok. Posts: 1,977	Re: Installing gooseneck on head I guess I am the bull in the china closet as I have snapped two over the years. None since I started just using RTV. I have used the thin paper as well as the thick copper in the past using the match trick as well. I have never had a problem with leaking using the RTV method. __________________ Oklahoma City Model A Restorers Group.

09-09-2014, 10:11 AM	#6
wrndln Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5,162	Re: Installing gooseneck on head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Mitch, What kind of sealer do you use with the thick gasket? Rusty Nelson

09-09-2014, 10:39 AM	#8
Fred BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: California, Maryland Posts: 1,421	Re: Installing gooseneck on head I also only use the original type copper filled gasket with no sealer, and have had no problems or leaks.. And this for F/P..

09-09-2014, 10:39 AM	#9
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,513	Re: Installing gooseneck on head Rusty, the reason why they break is because people do not take the time to restore both surfaces. In your case, you cannot use a sealer as you will receive a deduction. Take the time to level both the gasket surfaces with a file or in the Mill, then use a copper gasket that has been annealed and it will be perfect without any leaks. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

09-09-2014, 11:04 AM	#10
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Installing gooseneck on head I've used both type gaskets over the years and have broken several water necks in 54 years. When I used gaskets I had better luck with copper clad gaskets with Permatex , NO matches and broke very few. I now do as Mark in post # 2 and use no gasket and have never broken A single one that way . I apply a coat of clear RTV silicone and let a set a moment before installation of the upper neck. With some heads and thicker repro water necks you can run out of stud length before the nut tightens and using no gasket also solves this problem.

09-09-2014, 11:53 AM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Installing gooseneck on head I have broken two when helping a friend who was using paper gaskets. I haven't broken any when using a thin coat of silicone only. I also haven't broken any when using the copper gasket. I usually spray the top and bottom of the copper gasket with Copper Coat, but I'm sure it isn't really needed. I do check the outlet with a straight edge and draw file it flat or even slightly concave in the center. I like to tighten the nuts in at least 3 stages, and when I reach 45 lbs. I let it set overnight and give them another torque to 55 lbs. then let it set again and recheck for 55 lbs. Then I recheck several times after short engine runs until it stays at 55 lbs.

09-09-2014, 12:52 PM	#12
JohnLaVoy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 779	Re: Installing gooseneck on head No gasket!

09-09-2014, 01:12 PM	#13
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Installing gooseneck on head I wonder if alujimum re-pro necks would be less prone to breaking?????? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

09-09-2014, 01:27 PM	#14
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Installing gooseneck on head I've wondered the same. I've got one in my collection of stuff. I figure it would be the choice if I ever used an aluminum head .

09-09-2014, 02:48 PM	#17
supereal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Re: Installing gooseneck on head If you haven't broken at least one water neck, you probably haven't replaced one. Many of the old cast iron necks have cracks between the ears and the body that are almost impossible to detect. We usually just replaced them with repros to save time and trouble.

09-09-2014, 04:20 PM	#20
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Installing gooseneck on head That would be ok. I've had it for years. Tried to sell it once but nobody would give anything for it. Brother Bill can just have it for a purty if he wants it . Its really a good water neck that is just begging to be used

09-09-2014, 07:54 PM	#21
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Installing gooseneck on head Now that's Model A camaraderie! And putty good parts to good use! I concur guys.. I surface them on my resurfacer, also the head surface if I have a head off. I have never broken one yet without a gasket and just RTV. Of course I don't leave any witness to be seen. Larry