The Ford Barn

Phil Gillespie · 01-28-2022, 02:34 AM

This is a RHD car Column change 3 speed gearbox. Never had any problems previously.
Came up to an intersection went to change down from 3rd gear to 2nd gear and unable to get out of 3rd gear down to 2nd gear!! Not too far from home so got it home using 3rd gear only into shed. Will disengage with clutch.
Remove levers from side shifter to check. Front lever is 2nd /3rd rear lever is 1st/Reverse. There appears to be some movement in way of steel pin at shifting lever. Thought with only the levers at side of gearbox to move I could get it back to neutral. No joy. Only a small movement possible.
Can I remove the gearbox side shift cover to perhaps try to get gears back to neutral this way? Have done this with a 39 top loader.
This is my first with this side lever gearbox.
All advice will be greatly appreciated.
RHD car looking at side of gearbox with operating levers. Front one is 2nd/3rd rear is 1st/reverse.
Tell me it can be done this way without removing gearbox Hope Hope.
Phil NZ

Brian · 01-28-2022, 03:29 AM

yes, you can do as you propose...don't forget to drain transmission of oil first!

69a · 01-28-2022, 06:04 AM

It's been a long time. But I'm sure the problem is NOT in the gearbox.
Put the lever in the neutral position and open the hood. you should be able to pull the selector going to the g/box Pull it up until it is in line with the 1st revers linkage.
It happens when the selector at the bottom of the column gets worn, you probably shifted before you fully disengaged the clutch.

Mac VP · 01-28-2022, 06:17 AM

If the initial shifting mechanism checks out correctly (from the steering wheel down to the rods that connect to the two levers on the transmission) you probably have a problem with the synchro within the tranny. This is usually one or more of the three synchro inserts popping up in front of the synchro sleeve. Sometimes you can sneak them back into place but most often that is only a temporary fix, and a tear down of the transmission is required to repair it correctly.

Be sure to check the rubber and brass bushings on the second/high shift rod. If they are badly worn, it could hang up during shifting. These are easily replaced without removing the transmission.

Automotive Stud · 01-28-2022, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69a

It's been a long time. But I'm sure the problem is NOT in the gearbox.
Put the lever in the neutral position and open the hood. you should be able to pull the selector going to the g/box Pull it up until it is in line with the 1st revers linkage.
It happens when the selector at the bottom of the column gets worn, you probably shifted before you fully disengaged the clutch.

I agree, probably nothing wrong internally, the linkage probably got bound up from being worn.

Phil Gillespie · 01-28-2022, 03:06 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Automotive Stud

I agree, probably nothing wrong internally, the linkage probably got bound up from being worn.

The linkage has been disconnected from side cover gearbox levers.
Cannot get any significant movement locally with side lever out of 3rd gear.
Hence my query about removing side cover, once oil has been drained for an inspection and hopefully side all back into neutral position.??
Phil NZ

KiWinUS · 01-28-2022, 03:27 PM

As Brian said. Drain oil and have at it.
Is 39 on the water yet.

bbrocksr · 01-28-2022, 04:16 PM

As Mac says the inserts have popped out blocking the synchro outer sleeve from returning to neutral. Usually cause by excessive endplay.
Bill

Phil Gillespie · 01-28-2022, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

As Brian said. Drain oil and have at it.
Is 39 on the water yet.

Just checked yesterday, other car is now there, 2 in container, ready to load and will be advised on sailing dept.
Phil NZ

Phil Gillespie · 01-28-2022, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

As Mac says the inserts have popped out blocking the synchro outer sleeve from returning to neutral. Usually cause by excessive endplay.
Bill

Yes sounds like this a likely culprit. Wanted to get a heads up on here.
Have Mac Van Pelts Gearbox book and also the Ford V8 & Mercury 1932-48 Service Manual,Scientific Magazines an Australian publication. This is a very old book but has some very good pictures on gearbox also. Gear change housing assembly and setting of gear change levers both very clear to follow from this book.
Phil NZ

Phil Gillespie · 01-28-2022, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac VP

If the initial shifting mechanism checks out correctly (from the steering wheel down to the rods that connect to the two levers on the transmission) you probably have a problem with the synchro within the tranny. This is usually one or more of the three synchro inserts popping up in front of the synchro sleeve. Sometimes you can sneak them back into place but most often that is only a temporary fix, and a tear down of the transmission is required to repair it correctly.

Be sure to check the rubber and brass bushings on the second/high shift rod. If they are badly worn, it could hang up during shifting. These are easily replaced without removing the transmission.

Thanks so much for your input and advice will check this out.
This is the first problem I've had but will look at brass bushings and rubber.
Phil NZ

Phil Gillespie · 01-31-2022, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac VP

If the initial shifting mechanism checks out correctly (from the steering wheel down to the rods that connect to the two levers on the transmission) you probably have a problem with the synchro within the tranny. This is usually one or more of the three synchro inserts popping up in front of the synchro sleeve. Sometimes you can sneak them back into place but most often that is only a temporary fix, and a tear down of the transmission is required to repair it correctly.

Be sure to check the rubber and brass bushings on the second/high shift rod. If they are badly worn, it could hang up during shifting. These are easily replaced without removing the transmission.

Many thanks for all advice and suggestions.
Mac VP was right on the money. As he said syncro problem. One of the inserts had popped u at the front. Refitted and now just awaiting bush kit to replace rubbers and brass bushes.

Phil NZ

Bored&Stroked · 01-31-2022, 08:17 PM

Popping it back in will usually NOT fix the problem - as the synchro and slider should not move enough for the insert to pop out. When I've seen this issue it was due to the synchro itself being excessively worn - allowing more movement of the slider and uncovering one of the three inserts too much.

The fix was to rebuild the tranny, make sure the main shaft was in perfect shape (bearing surface), install NOS Ford caged rollers, set the thrust clearances correctly and install new synchros.

01-28-2022, 02:34 AM	#1
Phil Gillespie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Christchurch New Zealand Posts: 1,610	1946 Mercury Gear box stuck in 3rd Gear. This is a RHD car Column change 3 speed gearbox. Never had any problems previously. Came up to an intersection went to change down from 3rd gear to 2nd gear and unable to get out of 3rd gear down to 2nd gear!! Not too far from home so got it home using 3rd gear only into shed. Will disengage with clutch. Remove levers from side shifter to check. Front lever is 2nd /3rd rear lever is 1st/Reverse. There appears to be some movement in way of steel pin at shifting lever. Thought with only the levers at side of gearbox to move I could get it back to neutral. No joy. Only a small movement possible. Can I remove the gearbox side shift cover to perhaps try to get gears back to neutral this way? Have done this with a 39 top loader. This is my first with this side lever gearbox. All advice will be greatly appreciated. RHD car looking at side of gearbox with operating levers. Front one is 2nd/3rd rear is 1st/reverse. Tell me it can be done this way without removing gearbox Hope Hope. Phil NZ

01-28-2022, 03:29 AM	#2
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,829	Re: 1946 Mercury Gear box stuck in 3rd Gear. yes, you can do as you propose...don't forget to drain transmission of oil first! __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

01-28-2022, 06:04 AM	#3
69a Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 143	Re: 1946 Mercury Gear box stuck in 3rd Gear. It's been a long time. But I'm sure the problem is NOT in the gearbox. Put the lever in the neutral position and open the hood. you should be able to pull the selector going to the g/box Pull it up until it is in line with the 1st revers linkage. It happens when the selector at the bottom of the column gets worn, you probably shifted before you fully disengaged the clutch.

01-28-2022, 06:17 AM	#4
Mac VP Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,361	Re: 1946 Mercury Gear box stuck in 3rd Gear. If the initial shifting mechanism checks out correctly (from the steering wheel down to the rods that connect to the two levers on the transmission) you probably have a problem with the synchro within the tranny. This is usually one or more of the three synchro inserts popping up in front of the synchro sleeve. Sometimes you can sneak them back into place but most often that is only a temporary fix, and a tear down of the transmission is required to repair it correctly. Be sure to check the rubber and brass bushings on the second/high shift rod. If they are badly worn, it could hang up during shifting. These are easily replaced without removing the transmission. __________________ VANPELT SALES LLC Cincinnati, Ohio Office: 513-724-9486 www.vanpeltsales.com www.classictransmission.com

01-28-2022, 03:27 PM	#7
KiWinUS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here Posts: 2,954	Re: 1946 Mercury Gear box stuck in 3rd Gear. As Brian said. Drain oil and have at it. Is 39 on the water yet.

01-28-2022, 04:16 PM	#8
bbrocksr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yakima Washington Posts: 913	Re: 1946 Mercury Gear box stuck in 3rd Gear. As Mac says the inserts have popped out blocking the synchro outer sleeve from returning to neutral. Usually cause by excessive endplay. Bill

01-31-2022, 08:17 PM	#13
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,062	Re: 1946 Mercury Gear box stuck in 3rd Gear. Popping it back in will usually NOT fix the problem - as the synchro and slider should not move enough for the insert to pop out. When I've seen this issue it was due to the synchro itself being excessively worn - allowing more movement of the slider and uncovering one of the three inserts too much. The fix was to rebuild the tranny, make sure the main shaft was in perfect shape (bearing surface), install NOS Ford caged rollers, set the thrust clearances correctly and install new synchros.