The Ford Barn

Baggs · 03-18-2021, 07:09 AM

I’d suggest taking a file to the corners of the cap and block areas , just the ends to take a possible high spot/ burr off. I do it with all my main caps and block, as well as the rods, even after the rods have been resized.

I have to trust the surfaces being flat, no way I have the equipment to check it.

I just use a small fine file, maybe 1/8 inch wide, to put a polish so to speak. It was how I was taught to ensure no cocking of caps when tapped down in place and torqued.

May or may not have caused the issue.

Flathead · 03-18-2021, 04:03 PM

The center main bolt holes aren't really blind, there is a window in the block where the bolt ends, and I'll bet that bolt would spin out with a reverse drill. These engines are old and nothing lasts forever so bad things will happen no matter who worked on it. If it went for 15 years it was likely put together right.

Bums F-1 · 03-18-2021, 04:26 PM

I lost a center main cap.the crank also broke in half.that gave me a
reason to buy a Merc. crank. For peace of mind I installed a center
main strap.

VeryTangled · 03-18-2021, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

...I built it for a fellow about 15 years ago... Did I make a mistake?? Not sure. Gramps

Hehe, this is a very honest perspective from Gramps. I'm pretty darn certain I did stuff 15 years ago that was a mistake. Yup. Pretty certain. I tried hard but ...

chain drive · 03-18-2021, 07:26 PM

they make a welding rod called stud rod you can go into a blind hole weld on the bolt it will not stick to the sides we weld on broken bolts all the time with it keep building weld up out of the hole and weld a nut or flat iron on the weld and they turn out has alot of nickel in the rod very strong good luck

tubman · 03-18-2021, 09:23 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chain drive

they make a welding rod called stud rod you can go into a blind hole weld on the bolt it will not stick to the sides we weld on broken bolts all the time with it keep building weld up out of the hole and weld a nut or flat iron on the weld and they turn out has alot of nickel in the rod very strong good luck

Basically, this sounds like a good idea and I was thinking of suggesting it myself. I do have a question, though. I have always used "High Nickel" content rod to weld cast iron. This makes me wonder about your statement "it will not stick to the sides". Can you explain this?

Frank Miller · 03-19-2021, 07:24 AM

Ron did not need to step u[ but he did. talk with any engine builder and they have stories about mistakes. Quite a few about the front plug being left out of the oil galley. An old radio guy once told me, the difference between a novice technician and an experienced technician is the experienced one has already burned someone else's equipment. So whether it's engines, radios or marriage there's a lot of mistakes out there. Maybe I should add kids too. :-)

Bob C · 03-19-2021, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Basically, this sounds like a good idea and I was thinking of suggesting it myself. I do have a question, though. I have always used "High Nickel" content rod to weld cast iron. This makes me wonder about your statement "it will not stick to the sides". Can you explain this?

X-Tractalloy

X-Tractalloy is a special application welding electrode designd for extracting broken bolts, studs and taps from threaded holes.

Saves time and money - reduces downtime and labor by getting parts back into service quickly.
Versatile - X-Tractalloy will also remove broken screw extractors, taps and broken drill bits.
Strong - tensile strength exceeds that of Grade 2, 5, 8, 8.8 and 10.9 bolts and stainless steel.
Nonconductive flux - ceramic-like coating insulates threads to prevent damage from welding.

JSeery · 03-19-2021, 10:58 AM

That's interesting information.

tubman · 03-19-2021, 11:25 AM

Yes it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4zohssWS7I

Bored&Stroked · 03-19-2021, 11:35 AM

Yes - that is really interesting stuff . . . will have to pick some up and give it a whirl. Might help with broken off studs in these dang blocks!

Kurt in NJ · 03-19-2021, 12:01 PM

First I would use the piece of bolt, put it in hole and try to unscrew by hand, I get 80% of bolts broke like that out that easy
I have also use arc welder rod with some tape to center rod to remove bolt down 6" hole

A left hand drill sized for easy out-- start drilling, most likely it will remove bolt piece before you get it drilled enough to use easy out

Russ/40 · 03-20-2021, 08:31 PM

I don't think a mistake was made. I had the same thing happen to an engine I built. Took two more owners and about 20k miles before the center main cap broke. Notice, it's almost always the center main. These parts are old, and, who mags main caps? Maybe that should be another MUST check to go along with pressure testing.

tubman · 03-20-2021, 09:44 PM

I thought I had an unusual occurrence, but from the posts here, this looks to be more common than I ever thought. Maybe this is why all current V8's use 5 main bearings.

Lawrie · 03-21-2021, 04:32 AM

And the new model A engine
Lawrie

Tony, NY · 03-21-2021, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Yes - that is really interesting stuff . . . will have to pick some up and give it a whirl. Might help with broken off studs in these dang blocks!

Seems to be very difficult to find. Video is from 2011. Let us know where you find it.

Wat-0 · 03-21-2021, 11:39 AM

https://www.tbcdistribution.com.au/p...-miscellaneous

Dlistro1950 · 03-21-2021, 12:28 PM

Update. I cleaned the pan. Buried in the sludge was a washer. So it did not fail because washers were neglected...and it matches the others. The cap just failed. I think Ron did not do anything wrong. The cap failed! Ron sent me caps and I just returned from Ron SanGiovani's and he lent me some as well. Between them, I hope to find a match and return the others. I need to check the length of the bolts after I pull the broken off bolt remainders from the block. I doubt that the bolts were too long.

Thanks for the help guys.

Dick Listro

Desoto291Hemi · 03-21-2021, 01:39 PM

Thank you for posting your findings .
I think you will find it was just a cap failure,,,,seems it happens more than we realize.

I’m not blaming anyone,,,,but some were quick to blame it on Ron without any real evidence,,,,and sometimes all anyone really has is their reputation !

So glad to see so many stand up guys here,,,,as well as yourself,,,,it makes you have confidence in your fellow hot rodders .

Tommy

earlyride · 03-21-2021, 04:56 PM

After that happened to me I installed a speedway main cap support, figured it couldn't hurt, so far so good. Has anyone else used one of these?

03-18-2021, 07:09 AM	#21
Baggs Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Oakdale, Ca Posts: 44	Re: Center main blowout I’d suggest taking a file to the corners of the cap and block areas , just the ends to take a possible high spot/ burr off. I do it with all my main caps and block, as well as the rods, even after the rods have been resized. I have to trust the surfaces being flat, no way I have the equipment to check it. I just use a small fine file, maybe 1/8 inch wide, to put a polish so to speak. It was how I was taught to ensure no cocking of caps when tapped down in place and torqued. May or may not have caused the issue.

03-18-2021, 04:03 PM	#22
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,497	Re: Center main blowout The center main bolt holes aren't really blind, there is a window in the block where the bolt ends, and I'll bet that bolt would spin out with a reverse drill. These engines are old and nothing lasts forever so bad things will happen no matter who worked on it. If it went for 15 years it was likely put together right.

03-18-2021, 04:26 PM	#23
Bums F-1 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Modesto CA Posts: 37	Re: Center main blowout I lost a center main cap.the crank also broke in half.that gave me a reason to buy a Merc. crank. For peace of mind I installed a center main strap.

03-18-2021, 07:26 PM	#25
chain drive Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 73	Re: Center main blowout they make a welding rod called stud rod you can go into a blind hole weld on the bolt it will not stick to the sides we weld on broken bolts all the time with it keep building weld up out of the hole and weld a nut or flat iron on the weld and they turn out has alot of nickel in the rod very strong good luck

03-19-2021, 07:24 AM	#27
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Center main blowout Ron did not need to step u[ but he did. talk with any engine builder and they have stories about mistakes. Quite a few about the front plug being left out of the oil galley. An old radio guy once told me, the difference between a novice technician and an experienced technician is the experienced one has already burned someone else's equipment. So whether it's engines, radios or marriage there's a lot of mistakes out there. Maybe I should add kids too. :-) __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

03-19-2021, 10:58 AM	#29
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Center main blowout That's interesting information. Last edited by JSeery; 03-21-2021 at 01:17 AM.

03-19-2021, 11:25 AM	#30
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,303	Re: Center main blowout Yes it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4zohssWS7I

03-19-2021, 11:35 AM	#31
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,062	Re: Center main blowout Yes - that is really interesting stuff . . . will have to pick some up and give it a whirl. Might help with broken off studs in these dang blocks!

03-19-2021, 12:01 PM	#32
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: Center main blowout First I would use the piece of bolt, put it in hole and try to unscrew by hand, I get 80% of bolts broke like that out that easy I have also use arc welder rod with some tape to center rod to remove bolt down 6" hole A left hand drill sized for easy out-- start drilling, most likely it will remove bolt piece before you get it drilled enough to use easy out

03-20-2021, 08:31 PM	#33
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Center main blowout I don't think a mistake was made. I had the same thing happen to an engine I built. Took two more owners and about 20k miles before the center main cap broke. Notice, it's almost always the center main. These parts are old, and, who mags main caps? Maybe that should be another MUST check to go along with pressure testing.

03-20-2021, 09:44 PM	#34
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,303	Re: Center main blowout I thought I had an unusual occurrence, but from the posts here, this looks to be more common than I ever thought. Maybe this is why all current V8's use 5 main bearings.

03-21-2021, 04:32 AM	#35
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,212	Re: Center main blowout And the new model A engine Lawrie

03-21-2021, 11:39 AM	#37
Wat-0 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Keizer, Oregon Posts: 29	Re: Center main blowout https://www.tbcdistribution.com.au/p...-miscellaneous

03-21-2021, 12:28 PM	#38
Dlistro1950 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 9	Re: Center main blowout Update. I cleaned the pan. Buried in the sludge was a washer. So it did not fail because washers were neglected...and it matches the others. The cap just failed. I think Ron did not do anything wrong. The cap failed! Ron sent me caps and I just returned from Ron SanGiovani's and he lent me some as well. Between them, I hope to find a match and return the others. I need to check the length of the bolts after I pull the broken off bolt remainders from the block. I doubt that the bolts were too long. Thanks for the help guys. Dick Listro

03-21-2021, 01:39 PM	#39
Desoto291Hemi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Carthage , Tennessee Posts: 199	Re: Center main blowout Thank you for posting your findings . I think you will find it was just a cap failure,,,,seems it happens more than we realize. I’m not blaming anyone,,,,but some were quick to blame it on Ron without any real evidence,,,,and sometimes all anyone really has is their reputation ! So glad to see so many stand up guys here,,,,as well as yourself,,,,it makes you have confidence in your fellow hot rodders . Tommy

03-21-2021, 04:56 PM	#40
earlyride Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Petaluma, cal. Posts: 132	Re: Center main blowout After that happened to me I installed a speedway main cap support, figured it couldn't hurt, so far so good. Has anyone else used one of these?