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Old 12-20-2018, 11:08 PM   #1
brsturges
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Default Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

I’ve started breaking down a pair of banjo rear ends I had set aside for my next project, to pick the best parts from both to use. I have a question about some wear I found on one of the axles. The area of concern is where the grease seal rides near the tapered end of the axle.

The picture below shows the three best axles I have out of the four I removed (the other has badly damaged threads that appear beyond any easy repair). The axle on the right is great, with no issues that I can see. The middle axle has some noticeable pitting on the grease seal surface. There is a closeup picture of that as well. The axle on the left looks ok, but I can feel a slight ridge where the seal rides.

I was hoping to get some opinions as to whether the middle axle and/or the axle on the left would cause me leakage problems down the road. I’ll be using new seals of course, but wanted to hear what you all thought about the wear and whether they will seal up okay. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
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Old 12-21-2018, 07:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

It's tough to give an accurate opinion based on viewing pictures on a small cell phone screen, but here's my opinion:
The rust pitting on center axle would need to be cleaned up, or you could consider relocating the lip seal a bit axially, so the lip rides on a different area of the axle.

I would also be concerned about the keyways, tapers, and threads on those, or any axles you plan to use on your rebuilds. I would suggest having those areas carefully checked before attempting any assembly.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:23 AM   #3
brsturges
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

Thanks John. The keyways, tapers, and threads look pretty good to me. I plan to lap the tapers to the hubs to get the best fit possible.

Over on the HAMB someone suggested a similar solution to yours of relocating the seal a bit. They mentioned installing two seals so that the working seal gets moved farther inboard where there is smooth metal on the axle. Do you know if the seal compartment in the housing has enough of a lip to seat two seals stacked like that?
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

Washer/spacer could also be made to fit behind a new installed seal.
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by brsturges View Post
Thanks John. The keyways, tapers, and threads look pretty good to me. I plan to lap the tapers to the hubs to get the best fit possible.

Over on the HAMB someone suggested a similar solution to yours of relocating the seal a bit. They mentioned installing two seals so that the working seal gets moved farther inboard where there is smooth metal on the axle. Do you know if the seal compartment in the housing has enough of a lip to seat two seals stacked like that?
No, I don't know if there is enough mounting diameter for two lip seals inside the axle housing, but Rob's idea of adding a spacer/washed in front of seal might do the trick.
One idea I had, but never tried, was to machine a two stepped diameter sleeve that presses into the existing axle housing seal diameter, and then mounts the seal in the second diameter. This would space the seal ~ 1/4" from the previous wear. (Probably clear as mud )
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Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 12-21-2018 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

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You could try a secondary seal that locates in the end of the axle casing. they were once a popular "fix" that was commonly available. You might put out a call for some NOS ones.

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Old 12-21-2018, 12:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

I wouldn't do anything until after the keyways have been mag inspected, or checked with dye penetrant inspection. There can be cracks stating your eye can not see. All three might be fine or all 3 might be junk. Not worth the risk of breaking the end off the axle. These are OLD and who knows how many miles they went without the proper torque.
That is my 2 cents.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

A speedisleeve would restore that pitted seal surface
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

It would be interesting to see if they made a speedy sleeve in the correct diameter; we used them with good results on hyd pump shafts with bad grooves. Probably have to install the sleeves after the differential was assembled.

Brian types faster and beat me to this idea
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

They make speedy sleeves in all sorts of diameters. We used to use them as a repair for a worn shaft but the manufacturers started using them from new since it is a replaceable sleeve and will protect the shaft from possible breakage after extreme wear situations. They are installed with a correct diameter and length of steel tubing and we use a dab of Devon plastic steel to set them. The driver flange can be removed or left in place if it doesn't interfere with the seal.

I'd check into sizes and see if there are any that would fit. Here is a link to SKF sizes.
https://www.oit.edu/docs/default-sou...g.pdf?sfvrsn=2
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Old 12-21-2018, 05:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

to add to deuce roadsters comments, i once had an axle i was planning to use standing up, leaning against the wall. i bumped it with somthing, and when it hit the floor the side of the keyway flew out! further inspection showed it had been cracked for a while, i just didnt see it. sure glad it fell over!
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

I used many speedy sleeves on trailer axles, from SKF and CR ( Chicago Rawhide). Don’t know what’s available for this application
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

Epoxy two seal together after roughing up the mating surfaces. Drive them home in each half and never look back.
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Old 12-22-2018, 12:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

Great ideas here, guys. Much appreciated. I think I’m going to try to bead blast the corrosion out of the middle axle, fill the pits with JB Weld, and polish smooth. That may be the simplest and most reasonably effective method. The JB Weld should hold up fine, especially if the pits aren’t too bad.
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Old 12-22-2018, 09:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

I'm going to throw another option out there; Fred at Southside Obsolete sells NOS axles. I think I got mine for $150.

Taking and setting up a banjo rear is a pain in tuckus. I didn't want any issues, so I chose to replace them. Just a thought .
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Old 12-22-2018, 01:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

sturges. Devcon makes excellent products for various types of repairs. One of them is, Devcon Plastic Steel Putty, which has good resistance to oil, gas and other things. I have used JB Weld, but not in a case where it is exposed to oil, so I don't know if it is resistant or not. I should read JB instructions some day.


https://itwperformancepolymers.com/p...-steel-putty-a
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Old 12-23-2018, 01:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

Quick update for you guys. I bead blasted the corrosion on the middle axle, and the pits don’t look too bad at all. I reposted the before picture so you could get a good before and after. I think some JB Weld or metal filler followed by a polish will do the trick. 51Woodie, I’ll check out that product you mentioned.
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Old 12-24-2018, 12:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

Something I always check is to see if the axles are genuine Ford. In my experience used axles showing cracks, odd wear etc. are most often replacement units. Ford axles are stamped with the Ford script toward the gear end of the axle.I will mot use non-Ford axles in a reared.
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Old 12-24-2018, 02:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

my 2 cents worth why not have them hard chromed and reground to std crack testing prior to commencing with out question have used this on other projects with outstanding success
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Old 12-24-2018, 04:37 AM   #20
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Default Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear

Chrome plating has become real expensive over here...and if the pits are deep you have to apply a layer that is thick enough to fill the deepest pit...thickness is proportional to cost.
May even be cheaper to spray on metal and grind.
Cold spraying metal is a bit of gamble though...if you get flaking it ends up bad real fast chewing up the seal.
Really hard to beat a speedy sleeve cost wise.
Repair products like the epoxi based works really good from pressure point of view...like in if you want to install a bearing over it...not as good for wear having a lip seal run on it.
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