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11-01-2016, 09:48 AM | #41 |
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Update: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
I drove the car to and from Hershey a few weeks ago, no problems. But I couldn't leave well enough alone, it was bothering me that I should have to have the adjustable thrust plunger, so I pursued it further. See the videos below:
The first one demonstrates a noise while cranking the engine manually with the valve cover off. The noise is significantly louder in the video than in person. The phone seemed to amplify it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty8R8IAzFus The second video shows the backlash up front of a section of the gear just past TDC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmqjggeQwsU The third video shows no significant backlash at another point in the gears rotation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpRcTs2Pc0k |
11-01-2016, 11:44 AM | #42 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
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'31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 02-02-2017 at 11:20 PM. |
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11-01-2016, 12:34 PM | #43 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
My gears are a matched set, aluminum timing gear, steel crank gear, standard size, purchased directly from Dan McEachern.
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11-01-2016, 01:47 PM | #44 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
You should contact Dan. He will not only make it right, he will want to know of any problems so he can correct them.
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11-01-2016, 03:45 PM | #45 | |
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Re: Update: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
Quote:
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11-01-2016, 09:40 PM | #46 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
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'31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 02-02-2017 at 11:21 PM. |
11-02-2016, 05:49 AM | #47 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
The backlash varies (loose/tight) at several points around the gear. Also, the points don't appear to be 180 degrees apart from on another. I'm having a hard time understanding how one would get these results if the mains were off center. If off center, wouldn't the backlash be either too loose or too tight consistently around the entire gear?
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11-02-2016, 06:03 AM | #48 | |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
Quote:
I use to grind cranks in my Dads garage many years ago. |
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11-02-2016, 06:26 AM | #49 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
I'm not sure if it means anything but the surface of the cam gear with respect to the crank shaft gear is greater in the "backlash video" to about even in the "no backlash video" making it seem that there is camshaft gear wobble. It could be only camera angle making the difference.
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11-02-2016, 08:37 AM | #50 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
my aluminum gear makes a ticking sound when cold , but goes away when warm . the clearance is the reason . takes the aluminum awhile to warm & expand . that way from new
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11-02-2016, 11:36 AM | #51 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
I have a standard size laminated timing gear. James Rogers had suggested I try this a while back. I'm gonna give it a try. I will update when installed.
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11-02-2016, 12:38 PM | #52 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
What about checking the run out using a dial indicator on the crank and cam to see if something is bent
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11-02-2016, 02:02 PM | #53 | |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
Quote:
in you initial post, you did not say that you tightened the cam gear to what value lbs/ft, did you tighten the cam nut ? I ask because important !!! Last edited by hardtimes; 11-02-2016 at 02:04 PM. Reason: .............. |
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11-02-2016, 03:57 PM | #54 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
"Hardtimes", I tightened the timing gear nut to 100 lbs. It does not appear loose.
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12-02-2016, 07:33 PM | #55 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
I finally got around to swapping out the aluminum gear for a laminated one. There is no noise now. See the video below. I have driven it about 200 miles.
So far, so good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDRxFuGMqLs |
12-02-2016, 09:38 PM | #56 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
Thanks for the follow-up. I have a clicking that I can't track down, I pulled the side cover off of my timing gear because of this thread. Sure enough there is an aluminum cam gear. Funny part is I really don't hear it when it's cool out like it has been lately, and never until the engine is warmed up. I'm very suspicious now that after the engine is warm, the aluminum expands and that brings on the noise.
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12-02-2016, 10:52 PM | #57 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
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'31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 02-02-2017 at 11:21 PM. |
12-07-2016, 12:44 AM | #58 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
Just ran on to this and a few comments- why on earth are you tightening the cam gear nut to 100 ft-lbs??? 30-40 is plenty IMO. 2nd queston, how did you keep the cam from rotating while you tightened the nut? The bore, od and backside of my blanks are all machined in the same setup to keep them concentric and square. If the cam gear was wobbling, that will certainly cause backlash variations. Most of the time this is due to a cam nose flange that is out of square or dirt between the flange and the gear.
As others have said, runout of the crank gear can be caused by an improper crank grind and its entirely possible that the crank nose is running out because the crank grinder indicated the front journal rather than the gear area or the nose. If you pull it down again, take the pulley off and put an indicator in the crank nose. If you want to return the gear, I'll be happy to replace it, inspect the old one and post here what I find. By the way, Bill Stipe makes great products but we all need to double check each others work solve these issues. Dan Thanks, Dan |
12-07-2016, 07:13 AM | #59 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
Thanks for the response Dan. I will send you the gear.
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12-07-2016, 10:59 AM | #60 |
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Re: Camshaft timing gear rattling noise
Sorry Dan, forgot to answer your two questions:
"why on earth are you tightening the cam gear nut to 100 ft-lbs??? 30-40 is plenty IMO." I used two books when rebuilding my engine: The Model A Engine by By Paul H. and William H. Mcree Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook by Les Andrews One of those books I believe states the timing gear nut should be torqued to 100 ft lbs. I also used Bratton's FORD MODEL A SPECIFICATIONS web page as a reference and I believe it also stated 100 ft lbs. "how did you keep the cam from rotating while you tightened the nut?" I recall that I held the crank to prevent rotation and tightened the nut to 100 ft lbs. Phil |
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