Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2021, 12:09 PM   #1
Bob Bidonde
Senior Member
 
Bob Bidonde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,432
Default Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

Engine is a standard size Model "B" with 48,433 original miles, stock 4.6:1 Compression Ratio, running with Motorcraft TT10 Spark Plugs. This engine originally powered a winch in a boat yard. When I put this engine into my Coupe, it had no ridges in the cylinders, and it was standard size.

I sensed while driving the Coupe, that this engine was down on power. Compression test indicated low pressures in Cylinders 3 & 4. Spark plugs in Cylinders 3 & 4 were wet with coolant. The coolant replenishment after a run was normal. No unusual bubbles were observed in the coolant of the upper radiator tank.


Removed the cylinder head and found coolant leakage stains by Cylinders 3 & 4. No cracks were found in the block and cylinder head. I attribute the coolant leakage to inadequate torque of local head nuts.
__________________
Bob Bidonde
Bob Bidonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 03:02 PM   #2
Ruth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 1,334
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

I have never used one but I have heard from others who complain about that type of gasket with the silicon around the water passages. I use Best Gasket Graphite #509 gaskets with no problems.
__________________
Ruth
"Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"

Last edited by Ruth; 02-12-2021 at 05:40 PM.
Ruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 02-12-2021, 04:35 PM   #3
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,472
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

This is obviously not the first time that engine has had head gasket problems. Those gaskets haven't been around for long (but still too long). If there are no cracks in block or head, I'd make sure the head is flat and reassemble with a Best graphite gasket with copper sealing spray applied. All that said realising the Bob knows enough to sort it out himself and do it well.
I wonder if the engine was retired from its former role because it was too troublesome because of a propensity for the head gasket leaking.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 04:46 PM   #4
Ernie Vitucci
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 611
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

Good afternoon...I wonder if the problem is/was that the head was not torqued once a year to at least 55 pounds in order to keep it snug on the gasket...Here in the desert, we often see A's come into the shop with loose heads...the owners have had them for a few or more years and have never checked the torque...should be done once a year with the engine cold...and torqued several times at 25, 50 and 100 miles after a new head gasket is installed and torqued down...A's do need a certain amount of love and maintenance to run happily...Ernie in Arizona
Ernie Vitucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 05:12 PM   #5
Kurt in NJ
Senior Member
 
Kurt in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 6,140
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

While all of the gasket is not pictured it is easy to see the bad area there between 4-3,use a straight edge in that area on both head and block
Kurt in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 05:42 PM   #6
nkaminar
Senior Member
 
nkaminar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,820
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
I will go with what Ruth said. I have also had bad luck with that gasket. Last gasket was the Best Gasket Graphtie #573 which is for B engines and high compression heads. I used the spray copper gasket sealer on both sides. The block and head have to be meticulously clean. I finished up with an acetone wipe. They also have to be flat with no low spots. I slightly dressed my head with some 220 wet and dry paper wrapped around a flat file. The head can be checked with bluing and a sheet of flat glass. Best to have it surfaced at a machine shop if in doubt. Ditto the block but that is more involved.

Torque following the recommended sequence in 5 foot-pound increments from 25 ft-lb to 55 ft-lb. Warm up the engine then let it sit overnight and re-torque. Drive it for about 50 miles, let it cool, and re torque. I am planning on re torquing my head at least 3 more times and then once a year.
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

Last edited by nkaminar; 02-12-2021 at 07:41 PM.
nkaminar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 07:13 PM   #7
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,472
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
I will go with what Ruth said. I have also had bad luck with that gasket. Last gasket was the Best Gasket Graphtie #573 which is for B engines and high compression heads. I used the spray copper gasket sealer on both sides. The block and head have to be meticulously clean. I finished up with an acetone wipe. They also have to be flat with no low spots. I slightly dressed my head with some 220 wet and dry paper wrapped around a flat file. The head can be checked with bluing and a sheet of flat glass. Best to have it surfaced at a machine shop if in doubt. Ditto the block but that is more involved.

Torque following the recommended sequence in 5 foot-pound increments from 25 ft-lb to 55 ft-lb. Warm up the engine then let it sit overnight and re-torque. Drive it for about 50 miles, let it cool, and re torque. I am planning on re torquing my heat at least 3 more times and then once a year.
Your procedure is very close to what I do.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 12:11 AM   #8
CWPASADENA
Senior Member
 
CWPASADENA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PASADENA, CA
Posts: 1,881
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

I also agree that this is not the gasket to use. They have been troublesome sense they were first available.

I agree with what Nkanimar is saying, this is the gasket and procedure I use with very good results.

Chris W.
CWPASADENA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 02:02 AM   #9
jw hash
Senior Member
 
jw hash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Washington
Posts: 2,550
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

almost all the Model A people around here that i know have sworn off those gaskets. to much trouble with them, I have been using "Best head gaskets" and so far have not lost one. some people say not to coat them, But I do coat them with copper coat. I hate it if the head even seeps at all.
jw hash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 10:16 AM   #10
kawagumby
Senior Member
 
kawagumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Hollister, CA
Posts: 133
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

I wonder why some people say you need to torque them multiple times...even let them sit overnight and torque again, or torque every year? What's up with that?
What's so different about a model A from the old flathead sixes chrysler made or any of the other brands of flathead engines you'd only torque once (with the right sequence)?
kawagumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 10:59 AM   #11
Ernie Vitucci
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 611
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

Good Morning...Just a note to your question...I also drive a 49 Packard straight 8. The book calls for it to be re-torqued once a year...34 head bolts to 64 pounds feet...many old flat head engines have this service suggested in their owners manuals and or shop manuals...Ernie in Arizona.
Ernie Vitucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 11:41 AM   #12
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,011
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

I'm not a fan of using gasket sealer, especially on head gaskets. If'n the head and block are both good and a good gasket is used there should be no problem. I have occasionally used silver (aluminum) spray paint on head gaskets, but not as a general rule.
It's your engine, do as you see fit.
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 11:55 AM   #13
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,332
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

Although unsecured fasteners will self-loosen under transverse vibration, I think in these cases it's more likely that the loosening is occurring because of a compression of the material between the nut and the block.

The cylinder head stud bosses will compress by some tiny amount over time. The gasket material will continue compressing after the initial break-in. If the block/head interface isn't flat, some amount of accommodation will occur over time that reduces the stress on the bolted joint. All of these combine to bring the clamp load to some long-term equilibrium that might be a lot less than the initial load. The purpose in re-torquing is to bring the joint back to the desired clamp load.

I should say, though, that using good thread lubricant is important in this quest. If no lubricant is used, the preload scatter on re-torquing will be significant.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2021, 12:02 PM   #14
Bob Bidonde
Senior Member
 
Bob Bidonde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,432
Default Re: Head Gasket Leak - Show & Tell

The subject engine has been running fine for several thousands of miles. I increased the head nut torque to 55 ft-lbs instead of 50 lbs-ft and annually, I re-torque the nuts.


__________________
Bob Bidonde
Bob Bidonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 PM.