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Old 12-02-2010, 07:20 PM   #1
Charles Reese
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Default Powder Coating: Wheels

am curious to know more about powder coating
1. how do judges view this (is it that obvious)
2. since i assume this is a very light coating, once the wheels have been media cleaned, how is the inevitable pitting dealt with ... primer surfacer when painting but don't know about powder coating
3. don't want to restart the 'blacker black' debate, but any experience with a particular product/color code one should ask for?
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:05 PM   #2
J Franklin
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Paint your wheels. It is easy and you can fill any pits you find after going to bare metal. Powder coatings will show any underlying flaws that are not ground or sanded out. Ford used black enamel, not blue-black or green-black. the paint store can supply black. It is usually already packaged and does not require mixing tints, Coach black is usually the color black that has been used for centuries to paint coaches and autos.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Real men paint their wheels, that or pay another guy to paint them. Save the powder coating for lawn and patio furnature.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:46 PM   #4
glenn in camino
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

If you use automotive primer and paint it's more expensive than powder coating.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:47 PM   #5
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Color and paint vs powder coat is very subjective to a judge. Either you get reasonable person or someone is of the opinion it is wrong. Powder coating is paint just put on differently.

Do not assume it is a light coating. When doing the rim I do not think that you can get it super even there are some shaded areas (electrically speaking) that requires you to put in a heavier fog. I should add this is based on my inexperience doing 8 wheels with a lower cost PC gun.

No matter what you put on the rims you must be sure there is not build up at the 2 major contact points between the wheel and the drum. It is best to just sand the 2 edges down to metal on the wheel. If you have uneven build up I found that the build up cause up to .012" in drum warpage. After sanding the wheel the drum went back to the less than .002".

Filling the pits can be done with low temp Lab Metal. The lesser pits I found easier to fill by thinning the Labmetal and using a small brush. You could better fill just the pits and not have as much to sand off. You must wait the 24 hours before PC and baking the rim. I did a part with Labmetal and only waited a few hours and it caused the PC to bubble in that area. PC is very hard to get off! I messed up a rim and cursed the clean up on that one.

I did the baking in an oven I modified with a box out the back to give enough room for the rim. The oven was picked from the trash. I had to make a jig for the wheel to let me have the wheel vertical to PC and horizontal in the oven. The rack also got reinforced because the wheel is too heavy.
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File Type: jpg rack.JPG (63.3 KB, 106 views)
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

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1 qt black and 1 qt primer and some thinner even a 1/2 pint of hardener will not break the bank and you will have enough left over to redo all the black accessory items on your car. Just mix only as much as you need as the jobs arise.

Kevin, I like that oven!
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

If you want durably, powder coat your wheels, they'll last a long time with less chipping and your car will look good for a long time, if your going to drive your car it's the way to go. If you want it for judging do what Henry did and go by the book, Id rather drive my car and enjoy it then leave it parked in a garage so it looks good..Drive them and have fun!! jUST MY 2 CENTS...
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:20 PM   #8
Roger W Gerow
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Those of you who live in an area where there are Les Schwab Tire stores might check out their powder coating. Not many colors to choose from, but they have black. Price per wheel abound $30.00.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Nice powder coating oven Kevin. I have an oven that I use as well, did not consider midifying it for doing a wheel. Great idea. Was nice meeting you in Hershey.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:19 AM   #10
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

A couple of notes on the oven addition.

You must put some air holes at the back to let the hot air circulate to the rear. You also need to insulate it with regular fiberglass insulation.

I made the box fairly large. It does not have to be so deep. When I have done long items like the brake cross shafts I bake for half the time and rotate the part 180 or the far end does not get cooked good enough.
The other solution I have contemplated is a venturi with a small air flow from the compressor. This will pick up the hot air and move it gently to the rear. A fan is another option, but you need to couple the fan to the motor so the heat does not affect the bearings. For the few times I use the oven I have kept it simple. Simple means I have had to make some complicated jigs to hold parts. I have the scrap metal and the welders so I could make it work.

What would be nice is an oven large enough to put rear bumper brackets, but that would be too large for my space.

I also used the powder from Caswel. I am pretty sure it has been Brent that talks Tiger Drylac to be the better PC and worth the $$$. This is back up by comments I found in other forums. The stuff I have been using works, but the Tiger PC goes on nicer and melts better when compared to the Caswel and other lower cost PC. I wish I knew this when I bought the powder.

Keep in mind I decided to go the PC route because it is more friendly for use in a garage attached to a house.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:25 AM   #11
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Geez, ...Who comes up with these opinions??

IMO, "Real men" DO powdercoat wheels, running gears, and lots of things. And who says powdercoat is more durable than sprayed urethane paint??? While I might agree that there was a time when there was some validity to that statement, things have massively changed during the past decade.



Mr. Reese, to answer your questions specifically, my experience has been as follows...

1) The Judges don't always know how to distinguish between the two coatings. I have had vehicles entered in Fine-point judging that the entire running gear was powder painted and it received full credit without deductions. I have even had one vehicle that had a spray painted running gear in matte finish and the Judges incorrectly criticized it for being powder painted and thus deducted points.


2) The pits are dealt with in several ways, ...much like regular spray applied paint would be. There are several filler-type products on the market that allow leveling to be done to marred or pitted surfaces. Since we powdercoat in-house, we sometime will apply powder to the problem areas and then do a half-bake to partially cure the powder followed by sanding those areas to "fill in" or level the pits & scratches. Either way you go, you really need to be able to have access to the oven or you pay the coater several times for him re-baking after either method is performed.

Just so you know, the durability of urethane paint vs powder paint is the same when applied in the same mil thicknesses. Think about it, ...both are plastic paints that are just cured differently. I can prove this by spraying powder paint on a piece of aluminum foil and doing a bake. Then I can take ready-to-spray PPG Concept and dip another piece of aluminum foil once in the paint and allow it to dry. Both pieces will withstand the same basic amount of bending and abuse.


3) Generally speaking, the better quality powders available from companies such as Tiger-Drylac or PPG will be suitable. T-G's Bengal Black in 95% gloss would work as that is one of the colors I use. It is all about how the application of paint is made, and how slick the finish is.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

[QUOTE=Kevin in NJ;120908]A couple of notes on the oven addition.

thanks for the notes and pic Kevin... I have a PC kit but have not got around to making/getting an oven yet. I plan on playing a bit before I find out how hard PC is to get off.

As for color...... When I got my black sampled by a local Dupont store, they told me the hardest color to match was black. The color that came up 3 times out of 4 (After sampling three times each) was "Porsche Black #741". The odd thing, blackest black is not correct. The paint has, of course, mostly black but also a small amount of White, gold and red.

Enjoy-- time to start the winter project. Ummmm need more parking space.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:10 PM   #13
Terry, NJ
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

This is going to make someone sick, buttttt here goes! I looked into powder coating and heard prices from $80 to $100 per wheel. I'm doing 12 wheels (5 16" & 7 19")
I was in my local Tractor supply and saw a can of impliment paint that sure resembled Tacoma Cream. I bought it and did two wheels. I figure Impliment paint? It's got to be pretty tough. Maybe the color is a shade off, but I'm sure the total impression will be the same, Tacoma Cream! I can hear you retching now! Try it!!!
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:33 PM   #14
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Terry, when you look at most impliments after they have been exposed to the sun for about 6 months and you will see why this paint is so cheap. Let the "wretching" begin.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

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This is going to make someone sick, buttttt here goes! I looked into powder coating and heard prices from $80 to $100 per wheel. Terry
Just had two new commercial (all steel) running boards powder coated, 40 bucks for the pair, they are beautiful and completely coated where paint can't get.

Headlight bar and bumper brackets $15 for both.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:12 AM   #16
Terry, NJ
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

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Just had two new commercial (all steel) running boards powder coated, 40 bucks for the pair, they are beautiful and completely coated where paint can't get.

Headlight bar and bumper brackets $15 for both.
Hey $40 bucks is no problem! It's $1200 that scared me. I was about to set up an oven on my own. Whew! This project is beginng to look like a money pit and I'm just getting started. I've got the wood, engine, glass, body work/painting, upholstestry, and interior. And I'm doing most of the work!
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:03 AM   #17
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

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Hey $40 bucks is no problem! It's $1200 that scared me. I was about to set up an oven on my own. Whew! This project is beginng to look like a money pit and I'm just getting started. I've got the wood, engine, glass, body work/painting, upholstestry, and interior. And I'm doing most of the work!
Terry
I understand your feeling Terry, however it is all about financial priorities and what you feel is the acceptable level of craftsmanship on your project.


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Old 12-07-2010, 08:30 AM   #18
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

The costs in NJ are fairly high good luck on finding a place to work at $40. I do not believe you are going to get good work at that rate in this area. I called a number of places in the S Jersey and Phila area and got costs in the $100 per wheel range. No one was cheap and I can understand their pricing.

I am assuming the price of $15 for a headlight bar is for something prepped and ready to powder. For a guy to hang, powder and bake a headlight bar with other stuff I can see $15 and no warranty. I do not understand how some places will blast and PC a wheel for $40 as some people have said they paid. From a time and materials standpoint I got to think $30 to $50 to do a headlight bar is more correct. There is a pretty heavy investment in equipment to do PC correct. Do not forget the costs of sand, air, glass bead booth and the costs to run the equipment.


For me the cost to get into the PC at home was just the cost of powder and a gun. The oven and all you see were from the trash. The problem today is scrap is worth too much and the appliance companies are taking the ovens home when they deliver. They also will not likely to sell you an old oven for various reasons.

You can also make a much larger oven using the parts from an oven. The heater elements, when both run on 220, can get a much larger box up to temp if well insulated. The controller will run both at 220. A search on how to build ovens will show you what others have done.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:43 AM   #19
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Terry,If you're going to keep the car garaged when not in use,and not left in the sun you could get by with the equipment enamel.It will fade fast if left parked in the sun all the time.It seems to stay on well if applied properly over a properly prepared surface.When I was painting a lot of equipment I had to buy it in drums.Farmall red,John Deere green,and Omaha orange were the common colors for me.Black I would buy in five gallon pails as I didn't use too much of it.I painted the wheels on my 30 pickup about 1985 with Farmall red,they have just started to go to a satin finish.But,they have always been under cover when not in use.We all have to weigh our budget against our real needs.Most everybody wants the top of the line product that will last forever when they start a project,and either back off when they see what things will cost them,or refuse to do it until they can afford the right stuff.A lot of those are the ones that never get done.I drive a truck that is on it's third body and second frame.If I had held out and done it once the right way I would have lost out on 30 years of driving it.I would not use the implement paint on outside body parts,that is where I would splurge.Even a cheap short line urethane works better than most of the good paints of 25 years ago.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:02 PM   #20
Terry, NJ
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Default Re: Powder Coating: Wheels

Thanks Keith! I didn't realise it and I figured that impliment paint must be pretty tough, after all they use on farm impliments, don't they? Even Construction eqiuipment doesn't get a beating like a farm impliment. I guess it isn't so. Well, Paint for now and PC when it's all done and I have some extra cash!
Thanks again for you input!
Terry



Quote:
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Terry,If you're going to keep the car garaged when not in use,and not left in the sun you could get by with the equipment enamel.It will fade fast if left parked in the sun all the time.It seems to stay on well if applied properly over a properly prepared surface.When I was painting a lot of equipment I had to buy it in drums.Farmall red,John Deere green,and Omaha orange were the common colors for me.Black I would buy in five gallon pails as I didn't use too much of it.I painted the wheels on my 30 pickup about 1985 with Farmall red,they have just started to go to a satin finish.But,they have always been under cover when not in use.We all have to weigh our budget against our real needs.Most everybody wants the top of the line product that will last forever when they start a project,and either back off when they see what things will cost them,or refuse to do it until they can afford the right stuff.A lot of those are the ones that never get done.I drive a truck that is on it's third body and second frame.If I had held out and done it once the right way I would have lost out on 30 years of driving it.I would not use the implement paint on outside body parts,that is where I would splurge.Even a cheap short line urethane works better than most of the good paints of 25 years ago.
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