MG shocks on model As

[Ron Lachniet]

Do MG shocks work good on Model vAs? They look like they would be easy to install.

[Richard Redmond]

I fitted MG shock absorbers to the rear of my 1929 Roadster. I think they came off an MG B, and I'll ask my friend who I got them from to check on this. The great thing was that the shock absorber mount holes matched the Ford chassis bolt holes exactly. I used the after-market 'dog-bone' connectors. I tried to use them for the front but if I remember, the elongated, rectangular body of the MG unit came very close to fouling the steering arm and might crack it if you hit a big pot hole etc. If you want, I probably have some photos that I can post.

[Terry, NJ]

I am very interested in this! In another posting/thread, Brent Terry suggested using MG shocks. This would solve some problems that I'm mulling over in my mind about my reluctance to drill extra holes in the frame. Please post those pics ASAP Thanks in Advance
Terry

Originally Posted by Richard Redmond

I fitted MG shock absorbers to the rear of my 1929 Roadster. I think they came off an MG B, and I'll ask my friend who I got them from to check on this. The great thing was that the shock absorber mount holes matched the Ford chassis bolt holes exactly. I used the after-market 'dog-bone' connectors. I tried to use them for the front but if I remember, the elongated, rectangular body of the MG unit came very close to fouling the steering arm and might crack it if you hit a big pot hole etc. If you want, I probably have some photos that I can post.

[Slantwindshield]

Richard,
I'm building a speedster, please send me some pictures. Thanks. Howard [email protected]

[Kurt in NJ]

I have had several MGBs, they were expensive then, out of curiousity I googled it and mostly tube shock conversions come up --1 e-bay listing as rebuilt at 70+30 core ---when looking at used ones feel for free play, they use 2 pistons with little connecting rods and can get "free play", this is another modification using parts that are becoming rare and harder to find ---as a plus the valving can be changed without total diss --on the car it just comes out
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MG-MGB-REAR-...item3a6a1549f1 -this link shows the insides too.

the rear ones lasted good, the fronts went bad often

[2manycars]

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Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

I have had several MGBs, they were expensive then, out of curiousity I googled it and mostly tube shock conversions come up --1 e-bay listing as rebuilt at 70+30 core ---when looking at used ones feel for free play, they use 2 pistons with little connecting rods and can get "free play", this is another modification using parts that are becoming rare and harder to find ---as a plus the valving can be changed without total diss --on the car it just comes out
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MG-MGB-REAR-...item3a6a1549f1 -this link shows the insides too.

the rear ones lasted good, the fronts went bad often

The front shocks on an MGB are the upper control arm of the suspension, so they are not part of this discussion. The rears are available brand new from Moss Motors, or Victoria British for $170 each. Two lefts an two rights would be needed, and installed on opposite corners, as model A shocks are.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Again, the link above that Kevin gave is just one of many but assume you will have about $500.00 by the time the core charge, the freight, the Spring Perch Balls, 'et al. are paid for. Like I eluded to in my other post, back when the Stipe repro shocks were not available and the purchase price for these was a little cheaper, these were a great option for someone who just wanted to "tour" with their car. Now I am of the opinion that if someone is going to spend the money & time to use these (on anything other than a speedster), then adding another $500 to the mix to purchase Bill's new shocks is probably the better way to go.

.

[Hotrodfil]

I've used a set of MGB rear shocks on the rear of my Fordor - but they wouldn't fit the front without fouling the trackrod. I use a set of '39 shocks up front.

[Bruce]

I had a '67 MGB when I was in college. I "fixed" the worn out shocks on the "Green Machine" by filling them with Andy Granatelli syrup. When I reinstalled them, the car rode like a buckboard. But on a new exit ramp it cornered like it was on rails. I remember it was such fun that I took all four corners of a new cloverleaf interchange on the still-under construction I-57 -- twice -- because I had time and it was such a hoot.
Now I am a Robert Paul fan and have no need to install Brittish stuff on an American icon -- not that I haven't tweaked Henry's product with some "improvements."

[jkeesey]

Why spend $170 a peice for mg shocks when original a's are $145. Even a modern tube shock kit is $325 for the complete car

[Super88]

I asked this question in another thread about shocks and never got a response, so I'll try again. Where are Bill Stipe's products available from?

[JBR]

This link takes you to Bill's website. http://specialtymotorcams.com/index.html He doesn't have information about the shocks on the site, but it does have contact information. Give him a call, he is a heck of nice guy and a hell of a machinist.

Snyder's also sells what they call a premium shock. I'm not sure, but they maybe made by Bill. You could call Snyder's and ask.

I saw an Ad by Bill somewhere, but can't find it now.
Jon

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by jkeesey

Why spend $170 a peice for mg shocks when original a's are $145. Even a modern tube shock kit is $325 for the complete car

I think that is a valid question that I can only answer by saying you really need to experience the differences first-hand to know why. My experiences have been that modern tube shocks do not ride well at all AND they are an eyesore to me when I view a Model A from any distance. Kinda like rubber stemmed tubes.

If you have ever had original ones rebuilt and had those to compare to Bill Stipe new shocks, you come to realize that rebuilt originals generally do not operate as they were originally intended. Sure, they are better than nothing, ...and probably better than tube shocks, but adjustability & functionability of the Armstrong shocks (which were also used on heavier Jags too) makes/made them attractive for me to use for awhile since there really wasn't other suitable options available to me at the time.

.

BTW, lets chase a rabbit here. If an original shock is to be rebuilt, almost every one I have disassembled has had a worn stator inside. Generally the housing is worn somewhat too however in the past I have tried welding the ends and machining in a lathe to tighten the clearance up somewhat so the oil (fluid) would not bypass in the worn areas. To my knowledge, no one who is commercially rebuilding original units for under $200 is doing all of the welding & remachining necessary to bring each of the internal pieces back within factory specifications. Therefore, are they really rebuilt, ...or just repaired?

.

[Bill Stipe]

Hi Guys,
for anyone that wants to contact me here is my information.
Stipe Machine Company
N5718 County Road M
Plymouth WI 53073
920-467-2895

I'm not sure I can add to what Brent has already said hear about my shocks but I have been down the road with rebuilt shocks and poorly make reproduction shocks and after wasting better than 2 years to find out they are not working properly I decided to started to Mfg. new ones making them as perfect or even better then to original ones.
I order to do this would require some very accurate and difficult machining and I would have to do it in a very timely manner. I had to first sit down and redesign how I would design and manufacture this shock the most efficient and economical way. This would also require a machine capable of 5 axis and be able to transfer the part to work on the back side without losing the indexing position from the front to back and machine the part complete. In other words done in one.
Such a machine would end up costing over $500,000.000 dollars plus tooling this meant unimaginable payments and an extremely risky endeavor financially.
Unfortunately I gambled and lost after almost 3 years!
As of January 6 of 2012 I will no longer be able to manufacture high quality shock absorbers for the Model A and B fords along with many other fine products Stipe Machine has made for many years. I had to sell this machine at a loss to keep from possibly losing my business or worse everything. I have worked hard for the last 40 years! Most of the Model A and T catalog suppliers find it necessary to contract there parts overseas to make more profit. This hurt me hard because the orders I did yesterday for them are not reordered today because they decided the profit margin was too small or the customer would not want to pay the cost for a more expensive quality USA made product.
I am very proud of the fact that I design and build all of my parts and product in the USA and I understand that all of us have to make that decision whether the USA parts and products are worth the cost or will the cheaper less expensive part do the job. I have bought import tooling for my shop also if I feel this is a onetime job that odd tap that will only be used once and that customer may never order again I make the decision to buy cheap and yes this has turned around and bit me from time to time.
I have a lot on my plate right now working 12 to 14 hours trying to finish jobs before January 6 2012 that can only be run on this machine and once gone some these parts will never be made again.
Also my father is approaching 96 years old and his health is failing very fast we are not sure if he will make it until Christmas or even through this week end, plus my mother who is 89 fell in the driveway this last Friday dislocating her wrist and had to be taken to the hospital for a cast. She was my dad’s care giver and now everything has change in the blink of an eye.
Life can twist and turn so fast it makes you head spin.
Well enough said I sure hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving and great holidays to come.
Thanks for all your support and orders the past years.
Bill Stipe

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by 29 Red Rocket

As of January 6 of 2012 I will no longer be able to manufacture high quality shock absorbers for the Model A and B fords along with many other fine products Stipe Machine has made for many years. Bill Stipe

CRAP!! I was saving up money for a set, unfortunatly I found that the amount I could save was very small and was looking forward to many years of these shocks being available.

[Terry, NJ]

Bill, We don't know eachother, but as one machinest to another, I'm hearing this story too many times lately. I was recently introduced to Chadd Watts, the owner of Watts and Campbell Machinery Co , in Newark NJ. Watts and Campbell was founded in 1854 and made things for the Govt in the Civil War. Remarkably, The produced their own Boring mills. One made in 1874 has a 30 FT capacity, an 8FT swing lathe, A Churchill Cyl. Grinder at least 15' B,C, a couple of large horiz, Boring mills. W&C built a lot of steam engines and has parts and patterns for parts on hand. As we went through the pattern room, I eye counted over a thousand patterns for gears, flywheels, you name it. Chadd wants to GIVE it all away for a museum. And he's having no luck. Even the Smithsonian is reluctant. They've wrecked our once proud machine tool industry with "Free Trade"
Terry

Originally Posted by 29 Red Rocket

Hi Guys,
for anyone that wants to contact me here is my information.
Stipe Machine Company
N5718 County Road M
Plymouth WI 53073
920-467-2895

I'm not sure I can add to what Brent has already said hear about my shocks but I have been down the road with rebuilt shocks and poorly make reproduction shocks and after wasting better than 2 years to find out they are not working properly I decided to started to Mfg. new ones making them as perfect or even better then to original ones.
I order to do this would require some very accurate and difficult machining and I would have to do it in a very timely manner. I had to first sit down and redesign how I would design and manufacture this shock the most efficient and economical way. This would also require a machine capable of 5 axis and be able to transfer the part to work on the back side without losing the indexing position from the front to back and machine the part complete. In other words done in one.
Such a machine would end up costing over $500,000.000 dollars plus tooling this meant unimaginable payments and an extremely risky endeavor financially.
Unfortunately I gambled and lost after almost 3 years!
As of January 6 of 2012 I will no longer be able to manufacture high quality shock absorbers for the Model A and B fords along with many other fine products Stipe Machine has made for many years. I had to sell this machine at a loss to keep from possibly losing my business or worse everything. I have worked hard for the last 40 years! Most of the Model A and T catalog suppliers find it necessary to contract there parts overseas to make more profit. This hurt me hard because the orders I did yesterday for them are not reordered today because they decided the profit margin was too small or the customer would not want to pay the cost for a more expensive quality USA made product.
I am very proud of the fact that I design and build all of my parts and product in the USA and I understand that all of us have to make that decision whether the USA parts and products are worth the cost or will the cheaper less expensive part do the job. I have bought import tooling for my shop also if I feel this is a onetime job that odd tap that will only be used once and that customer may never order again I make the decision to buy cheap and yes this has turned around and bit me from time to time.
I have a lot on my plate right now working 12 to 14 hours trying to finish jobs before January 6 2012 that can only be run on this machine and once gone some these parts will never be made again.
Also my father is approaching 96 years old and his health is failing very fast we are not sure if he will make it until Christmas or even through this week end, plus my mother who is 89 fell in the driveway this last Friday dislocating her wrist and had to be taken to the hospital for a cast. She was my dad’s care giver and now everything has change in the blink of an eye.
Life can twist and turn so fast it makes you head spin.
Well enough said I sure hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving and great holidays to come.
Thanks for all your support and orders the past years.
Bill Stipe

[Fordors]

The only "Free Trade" in this country is for the benefit of Wall Street.

[1931 flamingo]

Bill: So sorry to hear of your situation. Hoping you come out of this all right Problem is when you're down, life sneaks up and bites you in the Axx. God Bless your Dad and hoping for a speedy recovery for your Mom.
Paul in CT

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I am also going to take the liberty of hi-jacking this thread and take it down that road.

Since I am fortunate to be in a situation to be privy to information from both sides of the fence due to my profession, I have seen much of what Bill just stated coming for several years now. That is why I keep touting this idea of buying the best available of reproduction parts so it will continue to be manufactured. What many do not realize is that there are quite a few common components that were being reproduced several years ago that are no longer being manufactured. In a few weeks from now, we will be adding shock absorbers to that list.

One other thing that I have noticed in my line of work is that, (as many already know) I generally always buy the "best available" in reproduction parts as a 'value' for my customer. And just like opening a Big Mac box at McDonalds, that hamburger is basically still the same however most would agree that the size & quality are not the same as what it was a decade ago!! From what I am experiencing, that same mindset now seemingly applies to reproduction Model A parts. Springs are not the exact same length as they were a few years ago, machined tolerances are not within spec like they were a few years ago either, and materials used are often cheaper than what they used to be. It used to be that probably 90% of the best-available Model A parts was ready to install straight out of the shipping package. Now as many of you also experience, that is no longer the case!! Matter of fact, I would venture a guess that we now spend another 150-200 hours during a full frame-up restoration just tweaking the best-of-the-best repro parts to replicate the function Henry's boys originally intended. That can be as much as 10% of the entire time necessary to do a complete restoration! Sadly this is coming in an era when there is fewer & fewer "restorers" out there who actually have the tools and/or ability to do this type of 'tweaking' to make them perform satisfactorily. Maybe the pendulum of the proverbial clock of progress will start swinging in the opposite direction in the future. I truly hope so as we cannot afford to lose manufacturers with a commitment to quality such as Bill's.

.

[Jim/GA]

This is really a shame. I remember when I was a kid working on Model As with my Dad and brother, back in the 70s, most of the repro parts seemed to come from Argentina and most were junk. For about 30 years they were more and more made in USA and the quality got better and better. Now the manufacturing is shifting overseas again and the quality drops again. Only if we, the buyers, protest and don't buy the junk, will we stem this tide.

[Bill Stipe]

Terry I just read your post on Watts, it is so sad that all the history will be lost. I love the steam age and the industrial revolution. It is unreal the size of the parts that were machined and the capablitys they had so early. Mechanicly I don't believe we have improved all the much from the early 1900's we just reinvented the things and used better materials and hi tech equipment now that electronics has taken over.

[Bill Stipe]

Brent,
Just what you have said in your post that the quality part makes your job easier and more cost effective by reducing your time to rework that part to make it useable. So the difference in cost of a bad part verses a good quality part easily washes out because of all the extra labor.
My oldest son Tony wants to keep the sheet metal department going and would like me to make more dies to stamp out other Model A panels because of the poor quality that is out there. I will see where I am financially once this machine is gone. I will have to research quality and supply and demand of all the panels out there to see if there is a great need for any particular panel.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by 29 Red Rocket

Brent,
Just what you have said in your post that the quality part makes your job easier and more cost effective by reducing your time to rework that part to make it useable. So the difference in cost of a bad part verses a good quality part easily washes out because of all the extra labor.
My oldest son Tony wants to keep the sheet metal department going and would like me to make more dies to stamp out other Model A panels because of the poor quality that is out there. I will see where I am financially once this machine is gone. I will have to research quality and supply and demand of all the panels out there to see if there is a great need for any particular panel.

If this helps the sheet metal business any, my 17 year old son is working on an A with rotted cowl bottoms. He bought the panels from Bill and they have the "dual" bend that is they are not flat with a bead. They fit like a dream with NO additional tweeking needed. Looked great, worked great!

[hop up]

I have a set of rnos shocks for a 30-31 that were made in the 1970's as I was told. What happened to this supplier and who was it. I don't understand why use a MG shock when Model a shocks are plentiful in good usable condition

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by hop up

I have a set of rnos shocks for a 30-31 that were made in the 1970's as I was told. What happened to this supplier and who was it. I don't understand why use a MG shock when Model a shocks are plentiful in good usable condition

I am not sure what rnos shocks are but one can assume that maybe you are implying they are NORS (New Old Replacement Stock) ...which really would not "replacement stock" but more like 'reproduction'. Since I am at a disadvantage by not being able to identify your shocks, one can only assume they are similar to the cheap reproduction shocks sold by many of the major parts vendors. Experience by myself and many others have shown that using them has proven they are very poorly constructed and generally become ineffective (--or locked-up) after a short time of usage. Therefore they fit into my category of poor quality reporduction parts.

The 2nd parts of your statement which may be true for you however I have not found the case for me is the comment regarding " ...shocks are plentiful in good usable condition." I have the specialty tools necessary to disassemble shocks, and most shocks I have found are worn to a condition where it is not cost effective to restore them internally back to a condition where they perform as they were originally intended. Yes, I agree there are Rebuilders out there who claim they can refurbish a shock however when you compare theirs to the action of an unused NOS or newly manufactured Stipe shock, you realize they come up short in matching performance. Again, this is another one of those things where first-hand experiences are necessary to make an unbiased comparison. With regard to why I used the MG shocks, ...the Stipe shock was unavailable at that time and I was looking for a performance level above worn original shocks that had been "rebuilt".

[azmodela]

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Originally Posted by 29 Red Rocket

I have a lot on my plate right now working 12 to 14 hours trying to finish jobs before January 6 2012 that can only be run on this machine and once gone some these parts will never be made again.

Are the shocks officially done now? Do you have any in stock? What's the price on them currently?

[SGT in Ont.]

Bill, I've been trying to convince people to buy your shocks as well. Unfortunately the mindset is the cheaper the better. Then I look the same people in the eye and ask if they went cheap when they had their Lincoln serviced at the dealership. No they would say, then why would you go cheap on any car you would drive. Safe is safe no matter the price. Thanks Bill for the work you have done in providing quality parts.

[hop up]

I will post a picture and the shocks and they were made in the USA in your neck of the woods. I agree with the import shocks are junk and have tried to use them on my 32 when I couldn't find a real set. I find a good share of Model A shocks in very good condition but I need 32's . Have you tried to hard chrome the wore parts in your shocks and grind (surface/centerless) them back into original specs. We did a set of 32's that way and tightened up the clearances a bit. They have been working great for over 10 years now. Sorry I might be a hotrodder but don't like to use import repo crap and pay a bit more to use a real FORD. I am in the manufacturing business and import stuff get me all worked up , very sorry to hear about stipe we are going thru the same crap now.

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I am not sure what rnos shocks are but one can assume that maybe you are implying they are NORS (New Old Replacement Stock) ...which really would not "replacement stock" but more like 'reproduction'. Since I am at a disadvantage by not being able to identify your shocks, one can only assume they are similar to the cheap reproduction shocks sold by many of the major parts vendors. Experience by myself and many others have shown that using them has proven they are very poorly constructed and generally become ineffective (--or locked-up) after a short time of usage. Therefore they fit into my category of poor quality reporduction parts.

The 2nd parts of your statement which may be true for you however I have not found the case for me is the comment regarding " ...shocks are plentiful in good usable condition." I have the specialty tools necessary to disassemble shocks, and most shocks I have found are worn to a condition where it is not cost effective to restore them internally back to a condition where they perform as they were originally intended. Yes, I agree there are Rebuilders out there who claim they can refurbish a shock however when you compare theirs to the action of an unused NOS or newly manufactured Stipe shock, you realize they come up short in matching performance. Again, this is another one of those things where first-hand experiences are necessary to make an unbiased comparison. With regard to why I used the MG shocks, ...the Stipe shock was unavailable at that time and I was looking for a performance level above worn original shocks that had been "rebuilt".

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by hop up

I will post a picture and the shocks and they were made in the USA in your neck of the woods.

Yeah, I would like to see them.

[hop up]

A few pictures of the shocks thanks

[Fordors]

The fact that they say Chicago,IL tells me that they were manufactured by Pete Buciak; I think he advertised as "Shocks by Pete". Original Houdaille's came from New York didn't they?

[hardtimes]

Bill,
We are PROUD OF YOU and your efforts/products...MADE IN AMERICA!
I have bought and used your made equipment in my model A/B endeavors. In my opinion, NOTHING I've ever seen made for this use .. even comes close to your craftsmanship and quality!
Being in very similar circumstances , at this time, as you are in with your parents...I'm saying a prayer for your family health/welfare.

[Brian SATX]

The pat number on those shocks was issued in 1971 or 1972.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Fordors

The fact that they say Chicago,IL tells me that they were manufactured by Pete Buciak; I think he advertised as "Shocks by Pete". Original Houdaille's came from New York didn't they?

I was under the impression these weren't all that great as they really were not adjustable as were the originals and when Pete passed away, that was kind of the end of them. While I never personally owned a set, I knew several folks that did and my feedback on them was only hearsay from their experiences but I would like to have one to look at the internals someday just to see what is there. For those who have never experienced the ability to adjust a shock absorber, it is almost like having the ability to adjust the ignition timing to the manner in which you want to drive.