I Can't Stop My Clutch Chatter On My '53!

[northeastcarnut]

I have a 1953 Ford V8 stick shift with bad clutch chatter! So far I have done the following: new clutch disc, new pressure plate (3rd),new throughout bearing (3rd), new front engine mounts, new transmission mount, new equalizer rod and bushing, new universal joints (3rd), resurfaced flywheel-twice, balanced drive shaft, replaced rear drive shaft flange, changed bell housing from '51 Mercury to '53 Ford,(my engine is a Mercury) the clutch fork linkage was not in perfect alignment. Now it is straight. Today the chatter is the same or worse! Now what?

[J Franklin]

Any run-out on the flywheel? Angles of trans to flywheel straight and in the same plane?Was everything set up in clean room conditions?

[JSeery]

Did you check the flywheel, block bellhousing mounting surface and transmission mounting surface on the bellhousing to assure they are all parallel to each other?

Same as Franklin posted!

[drolston]

The only thing left is the pilot bearing and/or badly worn transmission front shaft.

[Binx]

As crazy as it may sound, if your engagement is now in the upper part of your pedal travel, readjust it to begin engagement 1" off the floor so it is fully engaged at half pedal travel.

Lonnie

[George/Maine]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I think with the ford bell housing use a 10" LONG pressure plate with 3 groups of 2 bolt pattern from Fort Wayne. If you have a pressure Plate with 6 even bolts its mercury.
Then you will need a Ford flywheel.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

I think with the ford bell housing use a 10" LONG pressure plate with 3 groups of 2 bolt pattern from Fort Wayne. If you have a pressure Plate with 6 even bolts its mercury.
Then you will need a Ford flywheel.

As CLEARLY stated, he already has NEW parts, bolted together and operational! DD

[4t8v8]

Had the same problem with my F1. The more I drive it the less chatter I have. Some times it is pronounced other times smooth as can be. I don't know what to blame it on other than the material used on the new clutch discs? If I ever have to tear it down again I will try a Ft. Wayne pressure plate and disc.

[Fortunateson]

I had an issue years ago caused by my drive shaft with the universal orientation at the tranny 90* out of since with the differential yoke.

[flatheadmurre]

How is your engine main bearings...if the axial play of the crank is bad you have another thing that moves.
If you do a hard takeoff putting more pressure on the enginemounts and pressureplate is the shutter less then when you go easy on it ?
Did you put a dial indicator on the flywheel in the car so it´s running true...if the mounting flange on the crank is for some reason not straight ?

[chuck stevens]

I had a similar problem on my 49 when I replaced the clutch and p plate. The replacement clutch disks are not made correctly, they should have a cushion (a wavy metal disk) between the friction surfaces. You should be able to squeeze this with your fingers. Talk to the guys at Fort Wayne clutch & drive line, they are the best. They will take care of you.

[Ford Freak]

Originally Posted by chuck stevens

I had a similar problem on my 49 when I replaced the clutch and p plate. The replacement clutch disks are not made correctly, they should have a cushion (a wavy metal disk) between the friction surfaces. You should be able to squeeze this with your fingers. Talk to the guys at Fort Wayne clutch & drive line, they are the best. They will take care of you.

Chuck's got it right !

[chap52]

I would assume that you replaced the pilot bearing after having the fly wheel it out 3 times.
Had a similar issue and discovered that in my "haste" I didn't notice that the throw-out bearing hub was worn out of round. Probably from 60+ years of being driven with a foot resting on the clutch pedal.
Please keep up posted on your progress, Chap.

[rick r]

I would replace the pressure plate with a modern diaphragm type

[northeastcarnut]

The pilot bearing was replaced. The flywheel was resurfaced twice by competent machine shops. The chatter starts when I let up on the clutch, engaging the flywheel. If I let up slowly, the chatter is the worst. If I let it up faster and drive right off, It's not as noticeable. I have the adjustment just right. There is enough play. The pressure plate is nos and everything else has been replaced. The clutch fork and throw out bearing are also new (different from Mercury). Everything appears tight and straight. There is some play in the rear end, but no noises from any bearings. This Ford idles smooth and runs great OTHERWISE! I appreciate all information from you folks.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by northeastcarnut

The pressure plate is nos and everything else has been replaced.

NOS does not mean it is good. Some NOS parts were rejects that are still around. If it was me, I would quit change parts and check out what I have. You need to assure the flywheel is on the same plain as the rear mounting surface of the block. And you need to have the pressure plate checked out. I would talk to someone like Ft Wayne and see what they can do for you.

Just reread your first post, you have a 3 after pressure plate. Does than mean you have installed 3 different pressure plates? I get really confused as to why folks keep changing parts and then don't understand why they still have the problem. You can change every part on a car numerous times and it is not going to help anything until you determine what the problem is and correct it. Parts changing is not always the best approach to problem resolution. Some of these changes were probably a smart move, such as motor mounts, trans mount, etc. But when that doesn't solve the issue, it is time for true trouble shooting.

[flatheadmurre]

Put a dial indicator on the flywheel and check if it runs true.
It will tell you both axial play and if its off in an angle.
If that checks out fine do as Jseery says and ship out your parts to good known clutch rebuilder.

[Greg58]

This is the kind of thing that kept me from changing my clutch for years, we've heard of this same problem from a lot of people so its not something that the installer is doing wrong its probably that the clutch system it self is the weak point. I changed my disc only last weekend with no problem, I reused the pressure plate and marked its location before removal so I could put it back. One of the earlier posts was to change to a different type pressure plate, I had to do that in the 70's to stop chatter in a GTO. I tried the same things you have, finally went with a much heavier unit for a 426 hemi to fix it.

[George/Maine]

I think a 51 mercury bell housing is a half bell. They had a 6 even spaced flywheel bolt pattern .What trans are you using one with 1" spline or larger 1 1/4"
If mercury flywheel throw-out bearing is larger.
If you have a 1953 car it uses a 9 1/2 clutch.
You should only Ford 49 to 53 parts. If you had the flywheel re drilled could be wrong.
Those new PP are not to good fingers like sliced bread. No Factory Adjustment screws at end of finger. Save money and relive the days gone by and don't fix.

[J Franklin]

A friend with somewhat similar deal was not supporting the trans well on install before tightening up and distorted the disk.

[Binx]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

A friend with somewhat similar deal was not supporting the trans well on install before tightening up and distorted the disk.

Excellent point. If the trans was brute force bench pressed in and left to hang by the clutch hub before stabbed into the pilot bushing/bearing it will likely bend the disc hub.

Lonnie

[northeastcarnut]

I had the transmission carefully supported level then installed it with the spline into the disc, then releasing the clutch just enough to let the transmission slip the rest of the way into the pilot bearing. Pressure plate bolts and transmission to bell housing were torqued to specs using new bolts. There is no play in the transmission spline or with the engine at the flywheel. Still a mystery !!

[rotorwrench]

Clutch chatter on the 59A era and earlier cars was mostly due to the push of the torque tube on the engine & trans. Movement could get excessive with worn mounts and cause the equalizer parts to get moved around too much.

On the 8BA era cars, the chatter is generally due to localized problems with the clutch components. Just about everything has been touched on in this thread so far. Flywheel warpage or crankshaft flange irregularities can be checked with a dial indicator as already mentioned. If it is a Long or Borg & Beck type clutch, the pressure plate has to be true and have the proper parts internally to get a good footprint on the disk. A clutch shop can check this stuff. Ft Wayne Clutch is highly recommended for this. The cushion plates or whatever the clutch disk cushion material is between the two friction plates has to be right. If it has a spring disk type clutch disk then the springs & hub have to be up to the task. Trans and input shaft alignment are in there too as was mentioned.

I've seen where folks have used diaphragm clutches from a mid 80s Camaro with a Borg & Beck type pattern or something of that nature but I can't tell you what parts work for that. It has to work for the 1-inch 10-spline input and the original type throw out bearing assy if you still have the OEM type transmission. Ft Wayne Clutch might be able to help out there as well. I know that it has been done before and the diaphragm types generally don't have near the problems with chatter that the old Borg Warner designs do.

[donald1950]

are all 3 fingers of the pressure plate adjust correctly to the same height ? if the throwout bearing is releasing one before the other two, and releasing the pressure plate unevenly that could well cause chatter...

[George/Maine]

If you can remember if the Pressure Plate had 6 even spaced bolt pattern.
You say Mercury maybe 51?
If you are using the mercury PP it larger in finger dia.
Your trans must have 1" dia shaft.
I think you NEED a flywheel for 9" PP and clutch.
Mercury had large throw out bearing and using small one could be problem.
Doing same thing over and over with no results, time to try something else.

[tubman]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by donald1950

are all 3 fingers of the pressure plate adjust correctly to the same height ? if the throwout bearing is releasing one before the other two, and releasing the pressure plate unevenly that could well cause chatter...

I had this problem myself when putting an engine together. I was using a new pressure plate of unknown origin I had gotten at a swap meet for an extremely reasonable price. When I checked it, it seemed to be out an unreasonable amount. Here's a link to what I found and how I corrected it : https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...light=pressure

[Bulligen]

I had been told in the old days they would pick a big old tree and pull the car up to it. Then slowly let out the clutch and burn it in !!!!!!

[J Franklin]

Burn it in, or burn it out!

[tubman]

Never worked for me. I once put a new pressure plate, disk, and resurfaced flywheel in my '51. When it still chattered, I followed my 80 year old neighbor's advice and tried this (only I used a power pole). Just made it worse. The next year I found out it was bad motor mounts. Luckily I didn't do any damage with this "technique". As I look back on it now, deep down I had little confidence in doing this, so I didn't really put full power to it.

Bottom line? If you have this much time and money into a project and still have problems, find them and fix them and don't resort to stuff like this.

[Shu47]

I agree that if you have all these new parts in it and have chatter then you want to figure it out and fix it right...... but I have an 47 tonner that has some chatter and I find that putting some firm pressure on the brakes and holding the RPMs up slightly with the dash mounted throttle and then put it in say 3rd gear and let the clutch out slightly until it drags for 5 or 10 seconds will get rid of my chatter for a little while. One of these days I will take it apart but for now it gets me by.

[Bulligen]

When I repeated the old timer solution it was just meant to make us smile. I would never do that to my car or truck. Keep investigating to discover the real issue and fix it right. Like someone else mentioned, have you checked the motor mounts and or the rear spring hangers for unwanted play or movement?

[Dick]

I have a '49 coupe that has extreme clutch chatter.
Everything in this thread has been done at least once without results.
Northeast told me he installed a completely new flywheel/clutch assembly without results.
I would like to formulate a methodical plan to solve this by changing parts known to be working from other vehicles. I have the parts available now.

Engine is smooth and quiet at all rpms
With rear wheels in the air, no chatter.
Car moving down the road it's quiet and smoothe.
Car sitting still; letting the clutch out slowly causes the violent chatter before the car starts to move.

As so much has been done I'm thinking replacing the trans first, easiest.
Then the bell housing. Then the complete flywheel assembly etc.

What would you do first?
I'd appreciate any input on this. I am determind to find the cause.
Thanks!
Dick

[adileo]

I didn’t read the posts, but my chatter stopped after I replaced the (very worn - dry rotted) motor mounts on my
52 F1.

[1948F-1Pickup]

I've got this chatter BS with my F-1 as well. Same modus operandi....
slow pedal release, bad news. Quicker release with a fair amount of
throttle and it's ok. It does put a damper on the driving experience though.
I suspect the clutch friction material in my case..... as it came from the
prior owner with who knows what "quality" stuff? I've replaced the engine mounts, the clutch linkage pivot bushings (which were totally thrashed) and carefully set up the clearance and operation of the linkage.
I may go with a diaphragm pressure plate and a Fort Wayne disc the next time I drop the trans......

[38 coupe]

I did three clutch jobs on my 53. The worst results were the completely new clutch kit. I found the new pressure plates to be junk. I got a good used original type pressure plate and a "NOS" clutch disk from that auction site (probably an old factory authorized rebuilt disk, but whatever). My clutch is now great.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Bulligen

I had been told in the old days they would pick a big old tree and pull the car up to it. Then slowly let out the clutch and burn it in !!!!!!

Usually that was to burn off oil, you'll never burn in an alignment as the clutch disc and the pressure plate arms meet different every time. I'd look at adjusting the clutch arms as mentioned. or stop riding the clutch.

[Dick]

Hi Guys,
I found the part that was causing the violent chatter. I wouldn't have thought of looking at this normally but was inspecting parts as I was removing the transmission. My helper noticed the throwout bearing hub wasn't sliding smoothly on the input shaft retainer.
I just happened to look at it while having coffee and spotted the problem.

The bearing is on the hub crooked. It's at an angle. I guess it would have acted like a cam lobe to the pressure plate fingers. It must have been driven onto the hub rather than pressed??

I still have a bit of a shudder but it's probably from damage done with this throwout bearing. I'll fix the rest when I change to an OD transmission.

Thanks to everyone that posted on this thread from the beginning as it save a lot of parts and labor!
Dick

[40cpe]

Good catch on the bearing. I love to see laser straight shoeboxes.

[Mart]

I'm glad you found the culprit, Dick.

But Northeast (I guess) still has the problem.

I can't offer much, but would strip and carefully inspect all the parts. I would definitely attach a dial indicator to the flywheel and clock both the bellhousing bore and face for trueness, shimming/redowelling as necessary.

[Ford Freak]

Hey Dick - great looking '49 . Gonna get me one of those someday !

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Mart

I'm glad you found the culprit, Dick.

But Northeast (I guess) still has the problem.

I can't offer much, but would strip and carefully inspect all the parts. I would definitely attach a dial indicator to the flywheel and clock both the bellhousing bore and face for trueness, shimming/redowelling as necessary.

His last post was in Sep 2018.

[Mart]

Originally Posted by JSeery

His last post was in Sep 2018.

Missed that. I feel like I wasted my time thinking about it now. At least Dick found something that might not be obvious. Something to look out for.

Mart.

[Dick]

A brief update.
Northeast replaced the throwout assembly 3 times. This wasn't his problem.
He found a beautiful '65 Merc convertible and sold his '53 without solving the chatter problem.

I'm the 3rd owner of the coupe. 2nd owner bought it from an estate. It had the problem when he got it. He said he installed the throwout bearing and his son had installed it on the hub.

It was bad when I got it, so much so I didn't drive the car but a few blocks.
When we accidentally found this problem we installed the new one I had and it solved 90% of the problem. There is still a little bit but it's very drivable now and I'm going to put some miles on it to get a better feel for the car.

Pretty nice original car, still has the red oxide paint/primer underneath even or the rockers. I'm determined to make it right. This will probably be my last old car due to age and health.
Thanks guys!

[frnkeore]

I read the whole thread and didn't notice it was old, until pointed out

While reading, I didn't see much focus on the spring loaded clutch disk hub. When I was a mechanic, in general, the #1 cause of chatter was worn spring seats and collapsed or broken springs. You need to check the springs for looseness, even in new clutch discs, especially rebuilt's. They shouldn't be have any movement. As a young street racer, I collapsed and broke, a few hub springs, too

It's always prudent to indicate the flywheel if you've had it off. You should check the fit of the pilot bearing and indicating the trans pilot and mounting face, is good if you have the ability but shouldn't cause chatter. Misalignment will cause fast front bearing and pocket bearing wear.

[flatford8]

Very pretty car !......congrats on finding the solution!......Mark

[40cpe]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Dick

A brief update.
Northeast replaced the throwout assembly 3 times. This wasn't his problem.
He found a beautiful '65 Merc convertible and sold his '53 without solving the chatter problem.

I'm the 3rd owner of the coupe. 2nd owner bought it from an estate. It had the problem when he got it. He said he installed the throwout bearing and his son had installed it on the hub.

Original poster said car was a '53. Dick indicates he bought the car and shows a picture of a '49? Or did he buy another car with a chattering clutch?

[36fordguy]

The clutch disc is not the correct one for the cover. If the fiber section of the clutch should be the exact same as as the cover if not the disc will chatter.36fordguy

[johnny]

an off the wall suggestion : Loosen off the bell housing bolts and try a drive .retighten the bolts .Q do not the flywheel bolts have a flange ,to fit tightly into the flywheel .Did you use them .Last might you have a tight universal joint that can cause a dance.

[54FordYBlockGuy]

I know this is an old subject, the latest post-2020, but maybe someone will read this. On my 54 Ford Customline, V8 Y Block; I'll get chatter when I slowly start off, but if I feather the throttle, a little more RPM, No Chatter; I've been driving it like that No Chatter going from 1st to 2nd, then to 3rd......."Should I worry or just enjoy the ride"?

[tubman]

Originally Posted by 54FordYBlockGuy

I know this is an old subject, the latest post-2020, but maybe someone will read this. On my 54 Ford Customline, V8 Y Block; I'll get chatter when I slowly start off, but if I feather the throttle, a little more RPM, No Chatter; I've been driving it like that No Chatter going from 1st to 2nd, then to 3rd......."Should I worry or just enjoy the ride"?

You would probably would be better off starting a new thread, but I'll try. First of all, have you done anything about it yet? Stuff like new disk and/or pressure plate? re-surface your flywheel? how are the motor mounts, both front and rear?

We need someplace to start.