oil pump

[tom1948]

Hi guys, usually I'm on the early v-8 forum, but, I have a question about a 302 in my '48 mercury coupe. I am using a 1986 mustang HO, I need to change it to rear sump, what oil pump can I use? Any thoughts are welcome

[55blacktie]

The pump mounts to the block. What you need is the pickup for a rear-sump pan.

[JeffB2]

Your 1986 should have come with the dual sump oil pan this is the correct part. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=12895&jsn=526 Because the oil pump is in the front on 302's you should already have the right parts.

[tom1948]

re: oil pump, A front sump falls right on top of the front crossmember. I purchased a rear sump pan and pickup for it, what I can't find is the pump that fits inside it.

[fordor41]

front sump pan is actually 2 sumps. larger in rear and smaller sump in front. I don't know if any 302 actually had a true rear sump because of the front driven oil pump. BTW I installed a '81 302/c-4 in my '41 ford . just pushed the engine as far back to just clear the firewall and front sump(smaller) just cleared the cross mamber. was a btich getting to the front sump drain plug but is doable.

[KULTULZ]

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Originally Posted by tom1948

re: oil pump, A front sump falls right on top of the front crossmember. I purchased a rear sump pan and pickup for it, what I can't find is the pump that fits inside it.

Can you post a photo or VENDOR SOURCE and PN for the oil pan? I am having trouble visualizing what you are describing.

[rotorwrench]

I always called them the double hump sump. This was all that was available for the rear sump. They fit Ford Mustangs and Mercury Capri as well as a few others. The first versions of the rear sump were made for the 1966 Ford Bronco with the 289 but it may be deeper in the front. I just don't remember. The Bronco may have had its own oil pump but I think the later ones all used the one type of oil pump and it may be the same as the one for the front sump set up. I've heard the bronco oil pickup tubes are different than the later 5.0 rear sump set ups. I don't think there would be any advantage with the Bronco type pan.

The pan has to clear the oil pump in the front so I don't know if the clearance can be reduced or not. I'd venture to guess that the clearance is already fairly close. If a person uses a high volume or larger type pump then prepare to get the hammer out to adjust for clearance. It always depends on where a person needs the clearance. Make a notch if it will work.

[55blacktie]

That "dual sump" pan was found on Fox-body Mustangs. I believe it was necessary to clear the steering rack. Having dual sumps/w dual drain plugs was a pain. I could never change the oil without spilling.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by tom1948

re: oil pump, A front sump falls right on top of the front crossmember. I purchased a rear sump pan and pickup for it, what I can't find is the pump that fits inside it.

Regardless of oil pan style, the pump is the same unless it is a HV.

Here is an actual OEM 4X4 rear sump.



It will be deeper at the front as it has to enclose the pump. What needs to be known, are you using an OEM (which) or aftermarket pan?

[tom1948]

re: oil pump, it's an after market oil pan, very low in the front, it comes up about 1 1/2-2" shy of meeting the block. Right now I have the aluminum pan off A 4X4 Explorer on it, but, it's just a butt-ugly thing.

[fordor41]

believe T-birds and vans came with double sump pans

[tom1948]

re oil pump, here's some pics: the first one is the explorer pan, the second two are the aftermarket pan

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by tom1948

re: oil pump, it's an after market oil pan, very low in the front, it comes up about 1 1/2-2" shy of meeting the block. Right now I have the aluminum pan off A 4X4 Explorer on it, but, it's just a butt-ugly thing.

Tom, you need to bare with me as I have no knowledge or experience with anything before 1954.

If the EXPLORER pan works in the chassis, the double hump steel pan should work? You have an aftermarket pan presently and it will not allow the engine to set correctly in the cradle?

Has the front end/steering been modified from stock? The 2nd photo shows an OEM/or aftermarket rear sump?

Can you give a description (supplier - PN) of the aftermarket pan that supposedly works?

The actual pump is the same. The only difference is the pickup tube and of course the pan.

(Another reason the SBC was so popular for swaps, the oil pump was in the rear)

[tom1948]

re: oil pump, I tried to fit that pan on, it hits the pump way before the pan meets the block. to be honest, I don't remember who I got it from. btw garden spot hs class of '66. the pan I have on it barely clears the ho pump.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by tom1948

re: oil pump, I tried to fit that pan on, it hits the pump way before the pan meets the block. to be honest, I don't remember who I got it from. the pan I have on it barely clears the ho pump.

I believe the pan you are showing is an early SBF 289/302 front sump pan. That is why it won't clear the pump (it's being mounted backwards).

The EXPLORER PAN works with the HO pump and front axle?

That pan can be cleaned and either painted, powder coated or polished.

The take-out 5.0L HO is a stock engine or has it been modified (particularly the oil pump)?

[tom1948]

The pan on it is odd looking, I can't get to the other side to show what it looks like at this time. To answer your other questions, yes, it is a modified engine, the front crossmember has been replaced and now has rack and pinion steering. i'll try to post some pics

[1fastbyrd]

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by tom1948

re: oil pump, it's an after market oil pan, very low in the front, it comes up about 1 1/2-2" shy of meeting the block. Right now I have the aluminum pan off A 4X4 Explorer on it, but, it's just a butt-ugly thing.

OK ... I am starting to see light ...

You have a 1996-97 ALUM EXPLODER OIL PAN on the engine (86 MUST HO) and it works other than appearance (which I understand).



The EXPLODER also used a steel pan -



Are there any salvage yards in your area where you can go looking (before spending big $$$)? If you find a steel pan, measure the front drop section and compare it to the aluminum. If the same drop (+ / -) that may be your answer.

Was the car modified when you got it (front suspension)? Was the ALUM PAN included?

Now this is all conjecture as I have no late LT MPC INFO.

EDIT -



The STEEL pan was used 1997-2001 I believe, the ALUM 1995-96.

PAN PN - F87Z 6675-GA
PICKUP - F87Z 6622-CA

The oil pump itself is the same 1962 -

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by tom1948

The pan on it is odd looking, I can't get to the other side to show what it looks like at this time. To answer your other questions, yes, it is a modified engine, the front crossmember has been replaced and now has rack and pinion steering. i'll try to post some pics

That is a little gnarly looking ...

[5851a]

Tom1948, the blue oil pan pictured doesn't look right for small block Ford to me. Have you tried to lay a set of gaskets on the pan rail? It kind of looks like a GM pan. Small block Fords had dipstick in timing cover with front sump and dual or rear sump into pan until around 1982, then through side of block. I don't remember a little kick out in the pan like the one pictured. As others have stated, the oil pan needs to be deeper in the front than the oil pump hangs down on any sump.

[tom1948]

the dipstick on my'86 mustang ho is on the l/s between the back 2 spark plugs, without the pump the pan mates to the block perfectly. thanks everyone for your input. btw, I'm not a tyro on this, I worked as an import tech for 30+years before cancer took me out of the workforce and built many engines, foreign and domestic.it may be for a marine application, dunno

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by tom1948

re: oil pump, it's an after market oil pan, very low in the front, it comes up about 1 1/2-2" shy of meeting the block. Right now I have the aluminum pan off A 4X4 Explorer on it, but, it's just a butt-ugly thing.

Originally Posted by tom1948

re oil pump, here's some pics: the first one is the explorer pan, the second two are the aftermarket pan

There was only one pump for the run (other than the BOSS 302) so if the steel pan doesn't go up, it has to be the pan (or possibly the wrong pickup - did they supply a rear sump pickup?).

That pan looks to me as being an early SBF front sump. Maybe it was altered incorrectly or something was lost in communications somewhere.

If the 1997/ EXPLORER steel pan will not work, I would imagine you are going to have to get with a custom pan fabricator and have something made.

Early oil pan front sump are shown below -