The Ford Barn

Walworth · 06-17-2022, 08:03 PM

Greetings! I have a 1935 Ford 5 window that is a retired modified asphalt stock car and runs a FE ford. The combo has a generator and voltage regulator from a 64 Galaxie. When the car fires up cold, the amp meter registers a charge of almost 30 amps, but within 5 minutes it falls to 0 and never picks up charging again after that until the car is started again the next time. NOTE:The voltmeter slowly drops as the engine runs during this time as low as 10 volts. Anyone know whether I should be targeting the voltage regulator or the generaor? I'm not too smart on either one. Thx in advance.

paul2748 · 06-17-2022, 08:31 PM

Got a gauge or tool to check voltage? I don't trust ampmeters. With a generator and the engine off, you should get around 12.6 volts if the battery is fully charged. Running, at about 1,000 rpm, it should be between 13.5 and 14.5 volts. If your getting that, then you should be ok.

Walworth · 06-17-2022, 09:30 PM

well- I have an Optima gel battery, it reads between 11 and 12 before start. 12.5 or so while "charging" and then once ampmeter drops to 0 it will slowly show 12 and as time goes on down to almost 10 usually. Are Optima batteries compatable with early 60's generators?

KULTULZ · 06-18-2022, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walworth

well- I have an Optima gel battery, it reads between 11 and 12 before start. 12.5 or so while "charging" and then once ampmeter drops to 0 it will slowly show 12 and as time goes on down to almost 10 usually.

Are Optima batteries compatable with early 60's generators?

The BAT is compatible but the trick is to have a GEN that is actually able to keep the BAT fully charged (12.7V). It would require at the least a 60A GEN and fully functional VR (good luck finding one today).

Have you thought about an ALT UPGRADE?

Walworth · 06-18-2022, 10:06 AM

Are you thinking that a 64 galaxie generator isn't capable of doing the job? Im not opposed to a alternator upgrade but if its just a bad voltage regulator or something i would like to simply replace it.

KULTULZ · 06-18-2022, 10:23 AM

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GEN's come in varying AMP as to how the car was built and how much electricity it needed. Usually there are from 30-40A.

It will not power a hot ignition or fuel pump. A 60A was offered as an option but 60A just isn't going to do it. If you do need just a VR, it would be hard to find in today's market a quality replacement.

Now if you are set on keeping the GEN (and that's your business), the best source of diagnosis is a period FORD WORKSHOP MANUAL.

I am surprised that the usual 'I FIXED MINE BY' methods haven't started to be posted.

Walworth · 06-18-2022, 10:53 AM

I guess the thing that is throwing me off is how when the car starts, the charging system is working, but then within 5 minutes, it drops out and does nothing. Then, like clockwork, the next time the car is started its working again

KULTULZ · 06-18-2022, 11:04 AM

That's why you use a WSM as it gives you a DIAGNOSTIC SEQUENCE that will cover the complete electrical system.

The GEN itself needs to be tested under a load. Box stores used to do this on the bench for no charge (hoping you would buy either a reconditioned GEN or off-shore repair parts).

rotorwrench · 06-19-2022, 12:56 PM

It may be functioning on some level but if it wouldn't hold a voltage over 13.5-volts then the voltage regulator isn't working like it should. If it still has a 3-pole voltage regulator then is has a cut out on the battery terminal, the center pole is the current limiter just above the field terminal, and the voltage regulator pole is just above the armature terminal. The first thing to do is flash the field and especially if the system has set for a long time or it has a newly overhauled generator. This will set the field pole shoes up with enough residual magnetism to get the generator to produce some power. As it starts to turn after engine start then is generates enough voltage off that residual magnetism to close the cut out pole switch and bring the generator on line. The voltage regulator should buzz right along and hold the output voltage within specs.

Check the voltage output at the battery while it appears to be charging. It has to be a good bit above battery voltage to charge. The cut out pole is preset to bring the battery on line with the generator after the voltage increases above battery voltage. The current limiter keeps the current level below the max limits to protect the system in case of a major short to ground.

The generator can be tested to see if it will put out the max amperage that it's rated for. The test is in the shop manual but a person needs a good amp meter to check it. If it won't generate needed amperage then there is an internal generator problem. It may need brushes or it may have a shorted or open segment in the armature or an open field winding. A growler will test the armature and an ohm meter will test the field. It should have a specific ohms reading per the shop manual. If the generator is good then the regulator is crap. a lot of the modern replacements aren't made very well and can be bad right out of the box.

06-17-2022, 08:03 PM	#1
Walworth Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 14	any generator guru's? Greetings! I have a 1935 Ford 5 window that is a retired modified asphalt stock car and runs a FE ford. The combo has a generator and voltage regulator from a 64 Galaxie. When the car fires up cold, the amp meter registers a charge of almost 30 amps, but within 5 minutes it falls to 0 and never picks up charging again after that until the car is started again the next time. NOTE:The voltmeter slowly drops as the engine runs during this time as low as 10 volts. Anyone know whether I should be targeting the voltage regulator or the generaor? I'm not too smart on either one. Thx in advance.

06-17-2022, 08:31 PM	#2
paul2748 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Midland Park, NJ Posts: 3,982	Re: any generator guru's? Got a gauge or tool to check voltage? I don't trust ampmeters. With a generator and the engine off, you should get around 12.6 volts if the battery is fully charged. Running, at about 1,000 rpm, it should be between 13.5 and 14.5 volts. If your getting that, then you should be ok. __________________ 48 Ford Conv 56 Tbird 54 Ford Victoria

06-17-2022, 09:30 PM	#3
Walworth Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 14	Re: any generator guru's? well- I have an Optima gel battery, it reads between 11 and 12 before start. 12.5 or so while "charging" and then once ampmeter drops to 0 it will slowly show 12 and as time goes on down to almost 10 usually. Are Optima batteries compatable with early 60's generators?

06-18-2022, 10:06 AM	#5
Walworth Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 14	Re: any generator guru's? Are you thinking that a 64 galaxie generator isn't capable of doing the job? Im not opposed to a alternator upgrade but if its just a bad voltage regulator or something i would like to simply replace it.

06-18-2022, 10:23 AM	#6
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,475	Re: any generator guru's? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) GEN's come in varying AMP as to how the car was built and how much electricity it needed. Usually there are from 30-40A. It will not power a hot ignition or fuel pump. A 60A was offered as an option but 60A just isn't going to do it. If you do need just a VR, it would be hard to find in today's market a quality replacement. Now if you are set on keeping the GEN (and that's your business), the best source of diagnosis is a period FORD WORKSHOP MANUAL. I am surprised that the usual 'I FIXED MINE BY' methods haven't started to be posted. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

06-18-2022, 10:53 AM	#7
Walworth Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 14	Re: any generator guru's? I guess the thing that is throwing me off is how when the car starts, the charging system is working, but then within 5 minutes, it drops out and does nothing. Then, like clockwork, the next time the car is started its working again

06-18-2022, 11:04 AM	#8
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,475	Re: any generator guru's? That's why you use a WSM as it gives you a DIAGNOSTIC SEQUENCE that will cover the complete electrical system. The GEN itself needs to be tested under a load. Box stores used to do this on the bench for no charge (hoping you would buy either a reconditioned GEN or off-shore repair parts). __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

06-19-2022, 12:56 PM	#9
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: any generator guru's? It may be functioning on some level but if it wouldn't hold a voltage over 13.5-volts then the voltage regulator isn't working like it should. If it still has a 3-pole voltage regulator then is has a cut out on the battery terminal, the center pole is the current limiter just above the field terminal, and the voltage regulator pole is just above the armature terminal. The first thing to do is flash the field and especially if the system has set for a long time or it has a newly overhauled generator. This will set the field pole shoes up with enough residual magnetism to get the generator to produce some power. As it starts to turn after engine start then is generates enough voltage off that residual magnetism to close the cut out pole switch and bring the generator on line. The voltage regulator should buzz right along and hold the output voltage within specs. Check the voltage output at the battery while it appears to be charging. It has to be a good bit above battery voltage to charge. The cut out pole is preset to bring the battery on line with the generator after the voltage increases above battery voltage. The current limiter keeps the current level below the max limits to protect the system in case of a major short to ground. The generator can be tested to see if it will put out the max amperage that it's rated for. The test is in the shop manual but a person needs a good amp meter to check it. If it won't generate needed amperage then there is an internal generator problem. It may need brushes or it may have a shorted or open segment in the armature or an open field winding. A growler will test the armature and an ohm meter will test the field. It should have a specific ohms reading per the shop manual. If the generator is good then the regulator is crap. a lot of the modern replacements aren't made very well and can be bad right out of the box.