Y-block ‘B’ intake manifold question

[yblock57]

Recently picked up a manifold to change out the stock 2v intake on my ‘56 truck to a 4v. Plan is to have it hot tanked first. While it’s at the machine shop, should I have them deck the carb mounting surface? Outer perimeter looks ok. It’s the center section that has me wondering. Pics below. Thoughts?

[dmsfrr]

.
Are the intake manifold surfaces that mate to the heads in similar condition?
.

[scicala]

The '57 B intake will have slightly larger ports than the '56 heads, but will still work.

Sal

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

.
Are the intake manifold surfaces that mate to the heads in similar condition?
.

No, they’re very serviceable

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by scicala

The '57 B intake will have slightly larger ports than the '56 heads, but will still work.

Sal

Yeah, that’s right. Just a stock 272 .040 over. Adding ram horn manifolds to get rid of the crossover pipe. Also adding a ‘57 up distributor. Should help wake it up a little bit.

[KULTULZ]

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IMO

The mounting pad needs to be surfaced. If you do the inner pad you also have to do the outer pad or it will not seal.

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

IMO

The mounting pad needs to be surfaced. If you do the inner pad you also have to do the outer pad or it will not seal.

That’s what I was thinking. Removed the studs in anticipation of that.

Thanks

[cb]

That will make a nice combination my buddy did it to his 56 F-100 with a 292, he is using a 500 cfm Edelbrock carb. runs great.

[dmsfrr]

.
If your '56 truck has its original Loadomatic distributor don't forget to replace it with a '57+ version.
.

[55blacktie]

Yblock57, your machine shop should be able to tell you whether or not the intake manifold needs to be surface. Gasket choice/sealant could make a difference.

Have you selected a carburetor? Although I have a Holley 4150 Street Avenger 570 for my .060 over 292, the Summit 500 and 600 cfm carburetors have gotten good reviews and are cheaper. You can also go to Holley's site and see what they have in factory refurbished carburetors in stock. You might be able to save some money, if they have what you're looking for.

[Crankster]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

I have a Holley 4150 Street Avenger ...

Has it ever in fact been conclusively established specifically why the streets need "avenging"? Or is it the other way around? There's a couple potholes I could get mad at I'm pretty sure.

[Gene F]

I have a Summit street/strip carb on my streetrod, and it is a nice trouble free piece. I did some tuning on it, and now I never touch it.

[55blacktie]

Jim Morrison said they're bloody.

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

.
If your '56 truck has its original Loadomatic distributor don't forget to replace it with a '57+ version.
.

Yes sir, you are correct. Picked up a ‘57 + strib with the intake as a package deal. In the process of cleaning it up







Weights are sticky and everything needed a good cleaning & lube.

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

Yblock57, your machine shop should be able to tell you whether or not the intake manifold needs to be surface. Gasket choice/sealant could make a difference.

Have you selected a carburetor? Although I have a Holley 4150 Street Avenger 570 for my .060 over 292, the Summit 500 and 600 cfm carburetors have gotten good reviews and are cheaper. You can also go to Holley's site and see what they have in factory refurbished carburetors in stock. You might be able to save some money, if they have what you're looking for.

I do not have a carburetor yet and was planning on asking here as part of the research. Thanks for the recommendations.

I’d like to keep the manual choke knob on the dash functional. Can the new carburetors be converted to manual or do they have to be built that way from new?

That also brings up the choke tube in the intake manifold… should I just plug each end with a cap or screw?

[miker98038]

This isn’t directly applicable to your engine, but here’s a link to Ted Eaton’s carb test on one of his engines.


https://www.eatonbalancing.com/2012/...ting-on-the-y/

There’s also been some discussion on the autolite and new summit carbs over at yblocksforever that you might find interesting.

Pretty good looking engine compartment, and about to look better. How about a picture of the whole truck?

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by miker98038

This isn’t directly applicable to your engine, but here’s a link to Ted Eaton’s carb test on one of his engines.


https://www.eatonbalancing.com/2012/...ting-on-the-y/

There’s also been some discussion on the autolite and new summit carbs over at yblocksforever that you might find interesting.

Pretty good looking engine compartment, and about to look better. How about a picture of the whole truck?

Appreciate the link. Have a lot of reading in my future.

Truck in question:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[miker98038]

That’s a sweet ride. Thanks.

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by miker98038

That’s a sweet ride. Thanks.

Thank you, sir [emoji1303]

[55blacktie]

Yblock57, that distributor looks pretty rough. Don't you think that nice truck deserves something better?

Ted Eaton recently tested a CRT Performance electronic distributor for Y-blocks. Although they're made in China, he could not fault it. It has a mechanical tach drive for 55-57 Tbirds, but also provisions for hooking up an electric tach. It also has an adjustable vacuum advance. Expect to pay about $250/w free shipping. They may have one without the mechanical tach drive that's even cheaper.

Lots of good stuff can be found at y-blocksforever.com, and Ted is very good about replying to email.

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

Yblock57, that distributor looks pretty rough. Don't you think that nice truck deserves something better?

Ted Eaton recently tested a CRT Performance electronic distributor for Y-blocks. Although they're made in China, he could not fault it. It has a mechanical tach drive for 55-57 Tbirds, but also provisions for hooking up an electric tach. It also has an adjustable vacuum advance. Expect to pay about $250/w free shipping. They may have one without the mechanical tach drive that's even cheaper.

Lots of good stuff can be found at y-blocksforever.com, and Ted is very good about replying to email.

Read that thread the other day on that forum. Didn’t realize they were that affordable. If this one doesn’t clean up & check out well I’ll definitely consider CRT.

Thanks for the info.

[KULTULZ]

... un-believable...



Everyone is crying about the quality of replacement parts and then buy a CHI-COM knock-off GM HEI dist and carb.

Do me a favor. The distributor you have is very desirable. If you decide to go YELLOW RIVER on your build advertise it so someone can use it.

The intake manifold carb pad just needs a kiss. The machinist will realize this hopefully. All you want is a flat surface so there are no vacuum leaks.

[Crankster]

That was an excellent distributor design, though with long use the hardened steel pins on those "comma" shaped weights often show heavy flat wear spots where they fit into the reluctor slots, and also elongated reluctor slots. This causes erratic ignition advance. This is on top of excessive bushing and/or shaft wear, be sure to check for this. If running points it is especially important that wear tolerances are within spec.

Some of the parts are getting hard to find, I rebuilt one and it was like pulling teeth to find some of the parts. Dennis Carpenter had a pretty good stock of the weights but they weren't listed on their website (I think they have a fair amount of NOS parts, but you have to ask). The reluctor is practically a Unicorn part, it is possible to braze up the slots and file them back square.

[yblock57]

Surprisingly enough, this one is showing that exact wear you described. Should I shop around for another or would you attempt to rebuild this one?





https://youtu.be/InJN9nGog1Q

Excuse my ignorance. First time I’ve dug this deep into a strib.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

... un-believable...



Everyone is crying about the quality of replacement parts and then buy a CHI-COM knock-off GM HEI dist and carb.

Do me a favor. The distributor you have is very desirable. If you decide to go YELLOW RIVER on your build advertise it so someone can use it.

The intake manifold carb pad just needs a kiss. The machinist will realize this hopefully. All you want is a flat surface so there are no vacuum leaks.

Yellow River… Ha! Thanks for the reminder. I’ll do my best to resist the communist temptation. Prefer to keep everything period correct. I’ll have the shop clean that pad up on the manifold.

[Crankster]

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That one doesn't look too bad, compared to some I've seen. But that isn't saying much, considering how worn they often are. It probably depends how picky you are, how advanced your ODC might be.

The distributor is absolutely critical to a smooth idle, good power, and all around fine running machine. Another consideration is when running points, it is important that the distributor cam lobes are clean and perfectly smooth or even polished. Also check for distributor shaft sideplay. If you can detect any slop with your fingers it's probably too much.

Unfortunately what I found, when the distributor bushing is excessively worn, so is the steel distributor shaft, so bushing replacement alone isn't enough to bring it into acceptable limits. Excessive mechanical wear, sideplay, worn or pitted cam lobes, distributor gear backlash, all of these defects "stack up" and generally plays hell with the timing curve, contact points, "cam wobble", you'll pull your hair out trying to get the same dwell reading twice in a row.

[KULTULZ]

Excuse my ignorance. First time I’ve dug this deep into a strib.

It is not ignorance, just being mis-lead by others. If I am going to drive a FORD, I want a FORD.

What you have is a 57/59 DIST and the service parts are getting hard to come by. But this was the better of designs as it allowed a more stable dwell. There were four generations of the FYB DUALING ADVANCE DIST. If I was doing what you are doing, I would try and fine one from a 63/64 292 truck engine. Much easier to restore (parts) and make modifications (IMO).

[KULTULZ]

It probably depends how picky you are, how advanced your ODC might be.

That's CDO for correct alphabetical order ...

[KULTULZ]

- When Must Have The Best -

- CLICK URL BELOW -

Study - https://4secondsflat.com/Ford%20Y-Bl...stributors.htm

[KULTULZ]

PARTS BREAKDOWN of SINGLE PLATE DIST -



Ah... We have the IMG DISAPPEARING SYNDROME raising it's head once again ...

[scicala]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

Yblock57, that distributor looks pretty rough. Don't you think that nice truck deserves something better?

Ted Eaton recently tested a CRT Performance electronic distributor for Y-blocks. Although they're made in China, he could not fault it. It has a mechanical tach drive for 55-57 Tbirds, but also provisions for hooking up an electric tach. It also has an adjustable vacuum advance. Expect to pay about $250/w free shipping. They may have one without the mechanical tach drive that's even cheaper.

Lots of good stuff can be found at y-blocksforever.com, and Ted is very good about replying to email.

Why spend the money. His is fixable.

Sal

[Crankster]

Here is an older webpage (last updated way back yonder in 2004) which discussed these particular distributors and alerted me to the specific wear problems. I found he knew exactly what he was talking about! He explains setting up the advance curve, too.

http://m571.com/yblock/distributortuning.htm

It gets complicated quickly rebuilding FYB distributors because of the different parts they used depending on the iteration. If a replacement distributor shaft is necessary, they are unobtanium except the particular type as discussed here, with the "comma" shaped centrifugal weights. N.b. these are not drilled for the drive gear, and it needs to be precisely located.

The ball bearing style plates are still available, or, you could use the later type, which were also problematic. Ford also (naturally) changed the housings somewhere in there, which governs what type Vacuum Canister (which they also changed) will fit, depending on the housing or breaker plate. The earlier style vacuum advance used a fiber spacer, a spring, and shims (washers) for the advance curve, and connected it all with steel hardline with a special type of compression fitting.

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

It is not ignorance, just being mis-lead by others. If I am going to drive a FORD, I want a FORD.

What you have is a 57/59 DIST and the service parts are getting hard to come by. But this was the better of designs as it allowed a more stable dwell. There were four generations of the FYB DUALING ADVANCE DIST. If I was doing what you are doing, I would try and fine one from a 63/64 292 truck engine. Much easier to restore (parts) and make modifications (IMO).

Interesting. Learn something new every day. I thought there was just one change from the '56 & older loadamatic style to the later '57-up with the mechanical advance.

I'd like to try and fix this one, but can feel some side-to-side play in the shaft.

Can you provide any details on the '63—'64 strib? Like what to look for or any identifying features?

Thanks

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by Crankster

Here is an older webpage (last updated way back yonder in 2004) which discussed these particular distributors and alerted me to the specific wear problems. I found he knew exactly what he was talking about! He explains setting up the advance curve, too.

http://m571.com/yblock/distributortuning.htm

It gets complicated quickly rebuilding FYB distributors because of the different parts they used depending on the iteration. If a replacement distributor shaft is necessary, they are unobtanium except the particular type as discussed here, with the "comma" shaped centrifugal weights. N.b. these are not drilled for the drive gear, and it needs to be precisely located.

The ball bearing style plates are still available, or, you could use the later type, which were also problematic. Ford also (naturally) changed the housings somewhere in there, which governs what type Vacuum Canister (which they also changed) will fit, depending on the housing or breaker plate. The earlier style vacuum advance used a fiber spacer, a spring, and shims (washers) for the advance curve, and connected it all with steel hardline with a special type of compression fitting.

Thanks for all the helpful info. Bookmarked the link.

[55blacktie]

I fully support buying American-made products, but where do you think the replacement parts for a Ford distributor come from? The OP will have a difficult time just finding a condenser that works.

I also doubt that anyone posting does not have items in his home that were made in China. Sometimes you have to face reality. We can't return to the 50s.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

I fully support buying American-made products, but where do you think the replacement parts for a Ford distributor come from? The OP will have a difficult time just finding a condenser that works.

I also doubt that anyone posting does not have items in his home that were made in China. Sometimes you have to face reality. We can't return to the 50s.

Damn I hate to reply to this post ...

No you don't. Your first response was CHI-COM which is a GM HEI spin-off (copy in fact) with electronic components which fail regularly. Try and warranty one. Nice thing about them is they readily accept AC-DELCO replacement parts. But that is how CHI-COM works, steal another's technology.

Most anything one will need for the distributor being discussed will be NOS. The points are readily available from FORD. Points and cond are old tech. PERTRONIX is the way out (IMO)

I will face reality when they come in and make English a 2nd language (which is not that far away) (well, actually it is now).

The reason(s) most product is made off-shore is an unfriendly business atmosphere here.

If this country ever has to go to full war again, it will collapse over-nite.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by yblock57

I'd like to try and fix this one, but can feel some side-to-side play in the shaft.

Can you provide any details on the '63—'64 strib? Like what to look for or any identifying features?

The bushing can be replaced. If you don't want to go ahead with what you have -

The 63/64 is 292 truck only -

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

The bushing can be replaced. If you don't want to go ahead with what you have -

The 63/64 is 292 truck only -

Appreciate the pics & knowledge shared.

Will do some more digging on this unit before any other decisions are made. Lucky to be in no rush as the stock setup is still working fine. Want all the parts ready to go before any disassembly starts.

[55blacktie]

I'm pretty sure that 59-up distributors do not use the ball-bearing plate, and the vacuum-advance arm is straight, not curved as found on earlier distributors.

[yblock57]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

I'm pretty sure that 59-up distributors do not use the ball-bearing plate, and the vacuum-advance arm is straight, not curved as found on earlier distributors.

Good to know

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

I'm pretty sure that 59-up distributors do not use the ball-bearing plate, and the vacuum-advance arm is straight, not curved as found on earlier distributors.

Close...

photo 1: The '57 to early '59 distributors with a ball bearing plate have a straight flat arm from the vacuum canister.

photo 2: The points plate on '59+ distributors pivots on a small pin (arrow) and the flat arm from the vacuum canister has a double curve in it.

[55blacktie]

dmsfrr, you are absolutely right. I just popped the cap off my 57 Tbird distributor, and the vacuum advance arm is straight. I knew there was a change in 59, I just got it backwards.

Let's hope I get this right: You can get a Pertronix l or ll for the pre-59+ distributor; however, Pertronix lll will only fit the 59+ distributors.

When you are doing a body-on restoration on a 66-year-old car, don't expect to commit every detail to memory. By the way, what day is it?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

. . .
When you are doing a body-on restoration on a 66-year-old car, don't expect to commit every detail to memory. ...

I hear ya. Been there, doing that too...

This one has been sitting in the garage for the last year. Waiting her turn in the painter's schedule.
I don't have enough room in the garage for all the parts that came off so they're scattered around the various rooms inside the house. Hope I can find everything later.

Today might be Tuesday

[darrell]

you have to check the cam lobes close on a dist with that much rust.

[55blacktie]

dmsfrr, I have plenty of space, just too much stuff! Good thing I have a large bedroom. My 55 Tbird's bare seat and new foam (still in the box) are in the back of my trunk (it has a shell/w rug). At least I have room in the garage for the Tbird; some people don't even have that. Sounds like we've got a lot in common.