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Old 11-22-2021, 11:15 AM   #1
steve hackel
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Default The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

Thanks to Terry Burtz for accomplishing the task of nearly finding the Holy Grail for the Model A' hobby with his new motor, possibly he can come up with a new casting (size wise) for the Model A' transmission that would accept a modern style set of gears ! It would be sort of like winning the football game but deciding to play an extra quarter, just because you had

so much fun doing it and getting there....

P.S. my Burtz engine should be here in a few weeks - just say'n
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Old 11-22-2021, 04:28 PM   #2
Jeff/Illinois
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

Agree, Terry Burtz has done the hobby a tremendously great cause here, but I'd like to see it go one step beyond a Model A transmission case.

How about a new Ford 59AB V-8 Flathead block! That would really go well! It would be a lot more complicated I'm sure though
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Old 11-22-2021, 05:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

I agree with this too. Quite a few years ago in July 2014 Dave Mossman and I, together with our Wives, were hosted by Terry at his home and workshop. We were shown the amazing projects, work and trial castings Terry had done without any resolution or reward for the time put in. It was very impressive, though a little heartbreaking to see that the USA had not produced a good enough result after many trial castings and a long passage of time
Some years later we visited some of the foundries he had tried, just to get a sense of what they can do nowadays and it was clear that the quality Terry demanded was no longer available from them. Their current work was manhole covers, garden furniture etc., not precision engine parts made to fine tolerances.
It was a joy to hear his dream come to fruition, and between Dave and I we have 12 or 14 new Burtz blocks on the way. I have lost count, but 2 sets have arrived for Dave from the first production run. Mine are still on the way.
Well done Terry! For those who want trouble free touring in the years ahead this is a great answer.
My original Schwalms engine has already worn out rod babbitt after 25000 hard miles and it is full of pinned cracks, helicoil repairs and a 125 thou overbore. It may well carry on for many more years, but again it may finally fail due to cyclic fatigue somewhere and, when it does, I will be ready with a brand new block and crank - if I can wait that long!!
My wife's Tudor engine is in a similar category, not a Schwalms rebuild, but a less skilled resurrection by me with repaired mains Babbitt of unknown origin, and a welded-weights counterbalanced crank that I straightened, with who-knows how many more fatigue cycles left in it.
Again, I will be ready when it happens, which is a nice feeling as I get older and less capable of heavy engine-reconditioning work due to creeping arthritis.
SAJ in NZ

Last edited by SAJ; 11-23-2021 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

Thank you for this write up...certainly something worth investigating!
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:04 PM   #5
Jeff/Illinois
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

In an interview with Terry at the 2021 MARC National Meet concerning this new engine, Marc Maron thanked Terry for a 'Brand new, 2021 Model A Ford engine that can probably go 150,000 miles' to which Terry responded 'Easily!'

That says it all to me, the way this bad boy has been engineered, it will give a lifetime of service. I don't believe that remark was an over exaggeration, at all

Terry Burtz' NEW and improved 5 main bearing Model A Ford engine vs. a 90 year old who-knows-how-many heating and cooling cycles it has been exposed to plus overbores, crack repairs, pinning, helicoil repairs 3 main bearing crankshaft whipped to death original engine with rusted up clogged inner block cavities.

Yeah kind of a no brainer for the $$ you will spend. You can sink $5K REAL fast in an original engine rebuild and hope that it holds together.
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Old 11-23-2021, 12:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

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As Jeff concludes, spending money on one of these engines is money very well spent. To get that sort of life out of an engine that costs all up, not much more than a rebuild of an original one makes this a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.
I bet if Henry weren't working to such a tight price for the Model A and could do an engine like this, history would be different. GM and Chrysler wouldn't have had a chance.
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Old 11-23-2021, 12:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
............
I bet if Henry weren't working to such a tight price for the Model A and could do an engine like this, history would be different. GM and Chrysler wouldn't have had a chance.............
Excellent point well said
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Old 11-30-2021, 11:36 PM   #8
Chris Haynes
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

How about a like block, crank, and rods for Model T?
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Old 12-01-2021, 12:34 AM   #9
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

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How about a like block, crank, and rods for Model T?
Wow, you'd have to be a real thrill seeker to want to go that fast in a Model T. I'm told the brakes are like holding a cotton ball against the wheel
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Old 12-01-2021, 02:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

Yes to all above,
the one in our 28 pickup with a 6 2 head 350 lift cam and 97 carb will wind the speedo to the stop ,I got off the gas at 72 mph on the GPS and it was still pulling.
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Old 12-01-2021, 12:35 PM   #11
Chris Haynes
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

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Wow, you'd have to be a real thrill seeker to want to go that fast in a Model T. I'm told the brakes are like holding a cotton ball against the wheel
I guess you haven't heard about the disc brakes for T's.
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Old 12-01-2021, 07:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

Wow, mechanical disk brakes!!!
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Old 12-01-2021, 10:47 PM   #13
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

Regarding “On to the Next Project”, I’m 77 years old and very busy regarding the “New Engine Kit”, new flywheel, new camshaft, and the new head for Model A Fords.

I have been involved with Model A Fords for 60 years.

I ask that anyone building one of the new engines, please read the “Builders Guide” found at www.modelaengine.com because that will answer most questions.

I make several other Model A parts that are in the vendor's catalogs.

Every part that I make is either hidden or has an external appearance that agrees with the Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards.

I do have some ideas to improve other Model A parts that have problems and will get to them as time permits.
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
How about a like block, crank, and rods for Model T?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Wow, you'd have to be a real thrill seeker to want to go that fast in a Model T. I'm told the brakes are like holding a cotton ball against the wheel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
I guess you haven't heard about the disc brakes for T's.

Chris, I have a new SCAT crank & new rods in 3 of 5 of my Model-Ts. Les Shubert has already made a new Model-T aluminum block, -and the patterns are still around from the T-100 project that Ford and Guy did. So what am I missing in your asking Terry to manufacture those items too??


I agree that four-wheel braking is not anything new on a Model-T, -nor is disc brakes. Matter of fact, many Ts will outstop many Model-As! My Model-Ts will keep up with, -or outrun most 'restored' Model-As as far as just driving. My downside is not my car's brakes, but it is the original steering that I can exceed the limits on. Therefore I just choose to stay under 50mph on good safe roads and all is well.
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Old 12-02-2021, 04:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

I have never heard of disc brakes for a Model T - I only know one person who even owns one but maybe similar disc brakes for the Model A would be a good next project. They might even be hidden from prying eyes inside he existing brake drum.
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Old 12-02-2021, 06:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

I'll stay down around 40-42 MPH in a Model A, thanks.

You guys that go faster than that frighten me
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:53 AM   #17
Chris in WNC
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

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Originally Posted by steve hackel View Post
......possibly he can come up with a new casting (size wise) for the Model A' transmission that would accept a modern style set of gears !
Mitchell Manufacturing has already done this- synchronized transmission in original case......

https://mitchelloverdrives.com/
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Old 12-03-2021, 10:08 AM   #18
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Default Re: The new "Burtz" motor - onto the next project ?

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I'll stay down around 40-42 MPH in a Model A, thanks.

You guys that go faster than that frighten me

I try and cruise at around 50 or so. The natives around here will run over you if you go to slow!


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