The Ford Barn

tn97ahs · 08-07-2015, 04:49 AM

Hi!
I’ve got a Victoria -52 with the eight and the 3 speed without OD. As a winter project I want to do something about the trans. The alternatives are to go for an OD or to find an easy convert to automatic. I have read a lot and it seems to be a lot of adapters for a swap to automatic. I have also found a Ford OD from a 49-51 and my first question is: Does it fit spot on or with some easy mods? I have read something about to reverse a support but is that all? I know that I need something to activate the solenoid with, a release wire and the electric cables. Is there something else to think about? Of course I want to find out the status of the OD and calculate to repair something. I have a picture of the OD I have found for about 300 USD. They are not easy to find in Sweden!
Regards!
Anders from Sweden

JSeery · 08-07-2015, 08:27 AM

There are some obvious things you didn't list, such as shorten or fabricate a driveshaft. Need to be sure the input splines and output splines are compatible or accounted for. Is the input shaft the same length and diameter as the existing one? Is the pilot bearing the same size for the new transmission? Will the existing driveshaft yoke work on the new transmission?

Johnnydidd · 08-07-2015, 01:50 PM

Go with the automatic, Speedway has an AOD with adapter for $2300. good deal that includes everything.

Karl Wolf · 08-07-2015, 04:23 PM

My first car was a 1952 Ford with a broken second gear, bought a 49-51 trans with overdrive, it is shorter by about 2 inches... (fifty year old memory)

I soon wished that I had just gone the extra trouble to get the right trans.

Karl

tn97ahs · 08-10-2015, 01:06 AM

Thank You allJ
My “feelings” goes most of the time for the automatic unless I find the right complete OD. I have not the knowledge and experience to rebuild driveshaft and perhaps repair an OD I don’t know anything about. I may fix it but I want some time to drive my car toJ. Maybe it’s better to get a good adapter for a nice automatic. If I go for the Speedway, must I rebuild the driveshaft then? Is there a good way to still use a steering column shifter?

/Anders

JSeery · 08-10-2015, 08:19 AM

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You are going to be rebuilding the driveshaft no mater which way you go. The only way around that would be a transmission the same length as the current one with the same output shaft. T5s are the most popular swaps for the OD and there is a lot of detailed information on that swap. You may need to find someone to install whatever transmission you decided on for you. Transmission swaps are not that simple if you are not mechanically incline and wanting to put the amount of work required into it. There are a lot of little issues that have to be resolved with any swap and requires the tools and knowledge to deal with them.

About the shifter linkage, anything is possible with enough effort, but using the column shifter would be a really big challenge. With almost any transmission swap such as the AOD by far the easiest shifter installation is going to be a floor shifter.

Back to the driveshaft, that is not something you can modify yourself. It requires a shop that deals in driveshaft modifications. In some cases they may have to build a driveshaft from scratch. Then it requires balancing and the u-joints have to be matched to what you are needing.

flatheadmurre · 08-10-2015, 08:27 AM

I like the overdrives.
And shortening balancing a driveshaft isnt to bad.
I have the T-5 with speedway adapter the overdrive and C-4 with adapter here if you want to take a look at them in real...

JSeery · 08-10-2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

I like the overdrives.
And shortening balancing a driveshaft isnt to bad.
I have the T-5 with speedway adapter the overdrive and C-4 with adapter here if you want to take a look at them in real...

Great offer flatheadmurre!! I think tn97ahs would really benefit from talking firsthand to someone who has done these type of modifications!

tn97ahs · 08-17-2015, 05:58 AM

Thank you all!

I've got a little to thing about now!

Anders

Ol' Ron · 08-17-2015, 07:28 AM

You'll have to change the drive shaft reguardless what transmission you choose. You might get lucky and find a stock OD unit with the same length, However you'll also have to change the rear axle gear ratio, to take advantage of the OD. Price wise the stock OD is the cheapest way to go. A stock flathead might not work very well with an AOD, but does with a C-4, but you'll still have to change the rear axle ratio (3.3 works well). Best bet, find someone that's made the swap already.

rotorwrench · 08-17-2015, 10:03 AM

The difference between the 1949 & 50 Ford/Borg Warner overdrive transmissions and the later 1951 & 52/53 transmissions of the same type is mostly the type of gears used starting somewhere in early in 1951. Generally the standard 3-speed has a long tail shaft so that it uses the same drive shaft as the overdrive in it's model year group. There are some differences in the way the rear engine mount is installed between the early models and late models when they changed to the flat mount. The spacing is the same on the bolt holes for the mount in the 51/53 and they use the same part. In 52/53 they increased the overall length of the manual transmissions so they also use a different length drive shaft than the earlier models. The 1949/51 Ford cars use the 61 23/32" shaft and it is interchangeable with the standard Mercury shaft in 49 & 50. In 51, they made a new P/N 1A-4602-C when the Mercury cars changed to a different transmission. In 1952 & 1953, they used P/N AB-4602-C that is 59" long to work with the longer tail shaft & housing. The 52 & 53 Mercury overdrives should be very similar to the Ford if not the same.

Station wagons used different components for the rear axle & drive shaft so a person has to be careful not to mix it up. You might get away with using the earlier transmission if you use the earlier drive shaft but I can't say for certain. Your best bet would be to look for the 1952/53 stuff since it would be a bolt in job with little or no modifications.

An automatic conversion would be a lot of work due to modifications required and I would go with a later C4 type transmission due to availability problems with hard parts on the old Ford-O-Matics. Flat -O and others have adapters for the C4 but you would need an automatic column shift, rear mount modifications, and drive shaft modifications to do a good job of it. Plus you would need a transmission oil cooler or change over to a different radiator modified for auto trans cooling.

Overdrive wiring harnesses for a 52/53 cars should be available as a separate harness and a person would then need the relay and the kick down switch for the overdrive to have full use of it's capabilities. Solenoids & governors usually come with the transmission but they show up as NOS now and then or at least good used sometimes.

tn97ahs · 08-18-2015, 12:48 AM

Big Thanks!

Maybe I have a trans in a" little sight"! A guy who sells used parts have a complete Mercury -53 engine with, as I can see, a OD. I think he sells the trans separately! Is this OD trans exactly the same as in the Ford? If so I think its the best and easiest project for me to begin with. I'm not afraid to find and handle the "outside" parts and overhaul it.

/Anders

flatheadmurre · 08-18-2015, 02:58 AM

If he wont sell it separately i got a couple you can take a look at.
Just bring a DMM and check so the solenoid is ok otherwise it starts to cost money fast.
Just unbolt it run it in all gears check with one hand at input and one at output for excessive play and noise.
Or if he lets you look inside.
Good luck with the project

Im trying to make a F-2 more drivable right now so a gearbox swap is coming up here to...

Cecil/WV · 08-18-2015, 08:21 AM

'52-'56 OD will bolt right into your '52. I don't know about Mercury, but suspect they are the same. We put a '52 OD in a '59 Pickup with a 292 and had to change the splined shaft on the front of the driveshaft. I once put a '52-54 OD in a '70 F-1 with a 302 and drilled the bell housing and changed the clutch for a different spline to make it fit. Changed the clutch on the '59 as well.

rotorwrench · 08-18-2015, 08:59 AM

My 49 to 52 Mercury chassis part book show them to be the same as Ford for 1952. I don't have the 53 parts book but I suspect they are the same or close enough. All are part number AB-7003-B for early 1952 then the part number changed to AB-7003-E for 52 & 53.

08-07-2015, 08:27 AM	#2
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1952 transmission swap There are some obvious things you didn't list, such as shorten or fabricate a driveshaft. Need to be sure the input splines and output splines are compatible or accounted for. Is the input shaft the same length and diameter as the existing one? Is the pilot bearing the same size for the new transmission? Will the existing driveshaft yoke work on the new transmission?

08-07-2015, 01:50 PM	#3
Johnnydidd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Overland Park, Ks Posts: 559	Re: 1952 transmission swap Go with the automatic, Speedway has an AOD with adapter for $2300. good deal that includes everything.

08-07-2015, 04:23 PM	#4
Karl Wolf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mill Valley,Ca. Posts: 1,509	Re: 1952 transmission swap My first car was a 1952 Ford with a broken second gear, bought a 49-51 trans with overdrive, it is shorter by about 2 inches... (fifty year old memory) I soon wished that I had just gone the extra trouble to get the right trans. Karl

08-10-2015, 01:06 AM	#5
tn97ahs Junior Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Mora, Sweden Posts: 8	Re: 1952 transmission swap Thank You allJ My “feelings” goes most of the time for the automatic unless I find the right complete OD. I have not the knowledge and experience to rebuild driveshaft and perhaps repair an OD I don’t know anything about. I may fix it but I want some time to drive my car toJ. Maybe it’s better to get a good adapter for a nice automatic. If I go for the Speedway, must I rebuild the driveshaft then? Is there a good way to still use a steering column shifter? /Anders

08-10-2015, 08:19 AM	#6
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1952 transmission swap Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) You are going to be rebuilding the driveshaft no mater which way you go. The only way around that would be a transmission the same length as the current one with the same output shaft. T5s are the most popular swaps for the OD and there is a lot of detailed information on that swap. You may need to find someone to install whatever transmission you decided on for you. Transmission swaps are not that simple if you are not mechanically incline and wanting to put the amount of work required into it. There are a lot of little issues that have to be resolved with any swap and requires the tools and knowledge to deal with them. About the shifter linkage, anything is possible with enough effort, but using the column shifter would be a really big challenge. With almost any transmission swap such as the AOD by far the easiest shifter installation is going to be a floor shifter. Back to the driveshaft, that is not something you can modify yourself. It requires a shop that deals in driveshaft modifications. In some cases they may have to build a driveshaft from scratch. Then it requires balancing and the u-joints have to be matched to what you are needing. Last edited by JSeery; 08-10-2015 at 08:28 AM.

08-10-2015, 08:27 AM	#7
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: 1952 transmission swap I like the overdrives. And shortening balancing a driveshaft isnt to bad. I have the T-5 with speedway adapter the overdrive and C-4 with adapter here if you want to take a look at them in real...

08-17-2015, 05:58 AM	#9
tn97ahs Junior Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Mora, Sweden Posts: 8	Re: 1952 transmission swap Thank you all! I've got a little to thing about now! Anders

08-17-2015, 07:28 AM	#10
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: 1952 transmission swap You'll have to change the drive shaft reguardless what transmission you choose. You might get lucky and find a stock OD unit with the same length, However you'll also have to change the rear axle gear ratio, to take advantage of the OD. Price wise the stock OD is the cheapest way to go. A stock flathead might not work very well with an AOD, but does with a C-4, but you'll still have to change the rear axle ratio (3.3 works well). Best bet, find someone that's made the swap already.

08-17-2015, 10:03 AM	#11
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: 1952 transmission swap The difference between the 1949 & 50 Ford/Borg Warner overdrive transmissions and the later 1951 & 52/53 transmissions of the same type is mostly the type of gears used starting somewhere in early in 1951. Generally the standard 3-speed has a long tail shaft so that it uses the same drive shaft as the overdrive in it's model year group. There are some differences in the way the rear engine mount is installed between the early models and late models when they changed to the flat mount. The spacing is the same on the bolt holes for the mount in the 51/53 and they use the same part. In 52/53 they increased the overall length of the manual transmissions so they also use a different length drive shaft than the earlier models. The 1949/51 Ford cars use the 61 23/32" shaft and it is interchangeable with the standard Mercury shaft in 49 & 50. In 51, they made a new P/N 1A-4602-C when the Mercury cars changed to a different transmission. In 1952 & 1953, they used P/N AB-4602-C that is 59" long to work with the longer tail shaft & housing. The 52 & 53 Mercury overdrives should be very similar to the Ford if not the same. Station wagons used different components for the rear axle & drive shaft so a person has to be careful not to mix it up. You might get away with using the earlier transmission if you use the earlier drive shaft but I can't say for certain. Your best bet would be to look for the 1952/53 stuff since it would be a bolt in job with little or no modifications. An automatic conversion would be a lot of work due to modifications required and I would go with a later C4 type transmission due to availability problems with hard parts on the old Ford-O-Matics. Flat -O and others have adapters for the C4 but you would need an automatic column shift, rear mount modifications, and drive shaft modifications to do a good job of it. Plus you would need a transmission oil cooler or change over to a different radiator modified for auto trans cooling. Overdrive wiring harnesses for a 52/53 cars should be available as a separate harness and a person would then need the relay and the kick down switch for the overdrive to have full use of it's capabilities. Solenoids & governors usually come with the transmission but they show up as NOS now and then or at least good used sometimes. Last edited by rotorwrench; 08-17-2015 at 10:22 AM.

08-18-2015, 02:58 AM	#13
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: 1952 transmission swap If he wont sell it separately i got a couple you can take a look at. Just bring a DMM and check so the solenoid is ok otherwise it starts to cost money fast. Just unbolt it run it in all gears check with one hand at input and one at output for excessive play and noise. Or if he lets you look inside. Good luck with the project Im trying to make a F-2 more drivable right now so a gearbox swap is coming up here to...

08-18-2015, 08:21 AM	#14
Cecil/WV Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gerrardstown, WV Posts: 2,266	Re: 1952 transmission swap '52-'56 OD will bolt right into your '52. I don't know about Mercury, but suspect they are the same. We put a '52 OD in a '59 Pickup with a 292 and had to change the splined shaft on the front of the driveshaft. I once put a '52-54 OD in a '70 F-1 with a 302 and drilled the bell housing and changed the clutch for a different spline to make it fit. Changed the clutch on the '59 as well.

08-18-2015, 08:59 AM	#15
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: 1952 transmission swap My 49 to 52 Mercury chassis part book show them to be the same as Ford for 1952. I don't have the 53 parts book but I suspect they are the same or close enough. All are part number AB-7003-B for early 1952 then the part number changed to AB-7003-E for 52 & 53. Last edited by rotorwrench; 08-18-2015 at 09:41 AM.