Car died 2 blocks from home.

[Ford56]

Took out the '56 Victoria yesterday. Car started right up. After only 2 blocks, making a left turn, it died. No warning. No chugging, sputtering, hesitation. Nothing. Just died. Coasted to side of road. Tried turning key, no clicking or starter noise. Checked battery cables, and all other observable electrical connections; all secure. Dome light bright. Called flat bed. Shop says maybe the "Neutral safety switch". They said there was only one bolt holding it on, and it was loose. They tightened it. They said there should be two.

Does this make sense to you? I know nothing about a neutral safety switch, other than what Google just told me. I drove it home from the shop yesterday, and it seemed fine, but, what advice can you give me going forward? I'm hesitant to take it out now. LOL.

[ahshoe]

Neutral safety switch would not make the car kill in the first place. It is ONLY for Starting. Your car was already running.More like a bad coil but even they usually need to warm up before failing.Sounds electrical for sure Maybe condenser.

[40cpe]

Don't give up on enjoying that beautiful car! It is very possible that the neutral safety switch caused the no-start issue. Since you had only driven it two blocks, it could be as simple as a tune-up issue with the choke or carburetor that caused it to die on the turn. Of course, it could be an electrical issue, so carry some diagnostic tools with you as you drive.

[Ford56]

Yeah, it sure did seem likely it is an electrical issue, but the coil and condenser are relatively new, as is the battery. So, it has me stumped. The carburetor was running a little "rich" so that was 'leaned' out. The RPM's were a little low too, so that was raised by 50. After the holiday, probably on Saturday, if the weather cooperates, I'll take it out for a test spin to try to restore my confidence. Thanks for your replies.

[Ford56]

Also, thanks for calling it a beautiful car! While it was sitting on the flat bed, gleaming in the sunlight, it sure did look great. I don't get to see it too often 'from a distance'.

[Y-Blockhead]

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Originally Posted by ahshoe

Neutral safety switch would not make the car kill in the first place. It is ONLY for Starting.

Originally Posted by 40cpe

It is very possible that the neutral safety switch caused the no-start issue.

Yes, it's true the Neutral Safety Switch could cause the No-Start issue but it would not have shut off the car in the first place.

Once you move the gear selector out of neutral the Neutral Safety Switch is out of the picture.

I think I would investigate farther as to WHY to engine died...

[scicala]

New ignition parts are the scariest ones. Lots of issues with condensers from China.
NAPA has the best quality as far as parts stores.


How did you determine the carb was running rich, and what did you change on it ?


Sal

[dmsfrr]

A couple things to double check...
Loose or corroded connections on the ballast resistor, including the rivets that connect the terminals to the resistor coil itself. I had to solder these to get a good connection.

The wire from the coil to the points may be intermittent/broken inside the insulation if someone pulled on it too hard when installing it thru the wall of the dist housing, or...
If the dist has a ceramic insulator and small bolt for that connection, the ceramic sleeve and insulating washer can be broken.

And, loose connections on the ground wire from the points to the dist housing.
.

[Herman Munster]

Yes, the NSS will only cause a no start condition. I often need to jiggle my shifter in neutral for my car to start. I've had a hard time trying to get my switch adjusted just right.
Try a good quality condenser to see if that helps. Then if that doesn't help a new coil may be needed.

[Ford56]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I've got a lot going on today & tomorrow, but, I'll check out these ideas on Saturday. I'm thinking like most of you, its an electrical problem, which is typically the most difficult to determine. I'll take a peek in the distributor to see what those connections look like, and the ballast resistor connections. I'm hesitant to start replacing parts, like the condenser or coil, until I get a better idea of what it most certainly is not.

[Daves55Sedan]

Earlier this year, I made a right turn into a grocery store parking lot in my '55 Courier wagon and she died. I coasted into an empty parking spot. But the engine started right up again and ran fine about 30 seconds after I had turned that corner. I immediately became suspicious that possibly the car battery had enough sediment to slide over to one side when I turned that corner and build up touching the bottom plates and shorting out the battery. But once the car had levelled off again in the parking lot, the sediment settled back down flat away from the bottom of the plates.
After I got back home, I took the battery out (it was just barely three years old) and took it down to Autozone to be checked. They said it checked out fine. But I didn't want to mess with it. I bought a new battery, and it has never happened again.

[Daves55Sedan]

The Ford starter/neutral switch is mounted to the base of the steering column on a bracket held in place with a U-bolt. It is located just behind the steering gearbox. the switch is fastened to that bracket with two 5/16" hex-head self-tapping machine screws. The switch has slotted holes to allow for proper adjustment. If one of those screws is missing, it is not enough to hold the switch in place securely. I suggest replacing the missing screw.

[Daves55Sedan]

My experience with condensers goes kinda like this; If it starts and runs, leave it alone (especially now that good condensers are very difficult to find). I have run the same condenser in a distributor for 20+ years without fail. There have been a couple of times that a very old condenser, having been rode too hard and put away hot caused the condenser to break down enough that it let me know it was time for a change. After a long trip I had a little trouble starting the next morning. The second morning, the car would not start at all. Changed the condenser and the engine started right up. But I have never had one fail in the middle of a trip before. Not saying it couldn't happen, but maybe much less of a possibility.
If you need to buy a new condenser, I would warn against getting any from the repro parts suppliers. They are Chinese junk and many of them are bad right out of the box and the ones that do work are lousy quality and only last a year or so.
Right now, I am running a Lucas brand heavy duty condenser from NAPA in my '55 Fairlane sedan. Getting good service out of it.

[Daves55Sedan]

The thing that caught my eye is that you said it died after making a turn, which immediately led me to suspect your battery might be shorting out on turns. But another thing that can cause the engine to die on a turn is if your carburetor float needle gets temporarily stuck open by some sediment. That will cause your float bowl to fill up to high, spill over and flood out your engine, killing it.
Don't know if you have the Holley 2100, Ford EBU 2bbl, or the 4bbl teapot. I know it can happen with both the 2bbl carbs they offered then and also the Holley 1904 used with the 223 I-block 6 is susceptible. Not sure if the teapot has this problem.
I personally would not hesitate to take off the air-horn of the carb, blow out the float needle with spray carb cleaner and check the float setting. Last time I did it, took me less than 15 minutes. But that is just me. If you are mechanically minded, these cars are great to learn with. A shop manual is always helpful and you can get more detailed rebuilding literature for your specific carb from oldcarmanualproject on the internet.

[Ford56]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

The Ford starter/neutral switch is mounted to the base of the steering column on a bracket held in place with a U-bolt. It is located just behind the steering gearbox. the switch is fastened to that bracket with two 5/16" hex-head self-tapping machine screws. The switch has slotted holes to allow for proper adjustment. If one of those screws is missing, it is not enough to hold the switch in place securely. I suggest replacing the missing screw.

I was told by the shop mechanic, a guy in his 60's who seemed to know all about this type of vintage, that it should have had two screws holding that bracket in, and there was only one, and he tightened that one, and added the missing one. When I drove it home Wednesday, I made several 90 degree turns w/o problems. Today, I checked all the connections suggested above, and all is good; no loose or frayed wires, and no corrosion on any cables or wires I can see. I know its always possible there is corrosion under a part of insulation, and it would break the electrical circuit, but everything is only a few years old, so, I'm reluctant to start just pulling out parts to replace what "could" be the problem.

I started the car up today, and it fired right up. I didn't get a chance to take it out, and probably won't for a few days, but, when I do, I'll get back to everyone with follow up/status.

I really appreciate the suggestions, if for no other reason, to confirm what I was thinking, and point out something I might have forgotten from "back in the day" when I had these kinds of cars, over 50 years ago. Can you believe it, right??!! LOL.

[Ford56]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

My experience with condensers goes kinda like this; If it starts and runs, leave it alone (especially now that good condensers are very difficult to find). I have run the same condenser in a distributor for 20+ years without fail. There have been a couple of times that a very old condenser, having been rode too hard and put away hot caused the condenser to break down enough that it let me know it was time for a change. After a long trip I had a little trouble starting the next morning. The second morning, the car would not start at all. Changed the condenser and the engine started right up. But I have never had one fail in the middle of a trip before. Not saying it couldn't happen, but maybe much less of a possibility.
If you need to buy a new condenser, I would warn against getting any from the repro parts suppliers. They are Chinese junk and many of them are bad right out of the box and the ones that do work are lousy quality and only last a year or so.
Right now, I am running a Lucas brand heavy duty condenser from NAPA in my '55 Fairlane sedan. Getting good service out of it.

I agree 100%; if it runs, leave it alone. In my experience, from "back in the day" it was pretty unusual for a condenser to fail. But, they were so cheap, that while in the distributor changing things, why not change that out too? Today, I try not to mess w/anything that is working. I drive my old cars so seldom, maybe only 200 to 400 miles a year, that I rely somewhat on nothing needing work for years at a time

[Ford56]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

The thing that caught my eye is that you said it died after making a turn, which immediately led me to suspect your battery might be shorting out on turns. But another thing that can cause the engine to die on a turn is if your carburetor float needle gets temporarily stuck open by some sediment. That will cause your float bowl to fill up to high, spill over and flood out your engine, killing it.
Don't know if you have the Holley 2100, Ford EBU 2bbl, or the 4bbl teapot. I know it can happen with both the 2bbl carbs they offered then and also the Holley 1904 used with the 223 I-block 6 is susceptible. Not sure if the teapot has this problem.
I personally would not hesitate to take off the air-horn of the carb, blow out the float needle with spray carb cleaner and check the float setting. Last time I did it, took me less than 15 minutes. But that is just me. If you are mechanically minded, these cars are great to learn with. A shop manual is always helpful and you can get more detailed rebuilding literature for your specific carb from oldcarmanualproject on the internet.

Thanks for these thoughts. I hadn't thought about it being a battery problem, although I realize it could be. I once had a battery cable somehow come right off the post while I was driving. The car died and I coasted to the side of the road. I was looking over the engine and just about ready to call for a flat bed, when I saw the cable was laying beside the battery. WTH??!! For the life of me, I don't know how that happened. So, hooked it up, was on my way.

The thing that makes me think its not a battery problem this time is the dome light was a strong as ever, and the car started right up when I first went out, and after being flat bedded to the shop, and getting shaken around, and maybe reconnecting some electrical connection, it started right up again in the shop parking lot after being removed from the flat bed. Then, it was shut off, and it wouldn't start up. Then, it did when they drove into the rack area. After reattaching the bracket and inserting a second holding screw, its started every time, which must be 12-15 times.

I hate electrical problems.

[poolplayer1]

My 55 ford wagon would run for a few miles and than shut off,like If I had turned the key off. I replaced the condenser,the points,the wire that goes from the dist.to the coil,and the coil.Still had the same problem,shutting off.
I removed the ballast resistor and found it had been getting hot so I replaced it.
Ran the wagon for 20 miles and never shut off.In my case,it was a faulty ballast resistor.

[Ford56]

Originally Posted by poolplayer1

My 55 ford wagon would run for a few miles and than shut off,like If I had turned the key off. I replaced the condenser,the points,the wire that goes from the dist.to the coil,and the coil.Still had the same problem,shutting off.
I removed the ballast resistor and found it had been getting hot so I replaced it.
Ran the wagon for 20 miles and never shut off.In my case,it was a faulty ballast resistor.

Thanks. Yup, I've had a ballast resistor go bad on me too, not in my Ford, but, I've experienced it. Something for me to keep in mind.

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by poolplayer1

My 55 ford wagon would run for a few miles and than shut off,like If I had turned the key off. I replaced the condenser,the points,the wire that goes from the dist.to the coil,and the coil.Still had the same problem,shutting off.
I removed the ballast resistor and found it had been getting hot so I replaced it.
Ran the wagon for 20 miles and never shut off.In my case,it was a faulty ballast resistor.

===============================================




The ballast resistor Does get hot, because it is a resistor.


I had one that was getting bright red hot, and found that my
coil was more of the problem. Replaced coil, then started good.





.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Earlier this year, I made a right turn into a grocery store parking lot in my '55 Courier wagon and she died. I coasted into an empty parking spot. But the engine started right up again and ran fine about 30 seconds after I had turned that corner. I immediately became suspicious that possibly the car battery had enough sediment to slide over to one side when I turned that corner and build up touching the bottom plates and shorting out the battery. But once the car had levelled off again in the parking lot, the sediment settled back down flat away from the bottom of the plates.
After I got back home, I took the battery out (it was just barely three years old) and took it down to Autozone to be checked. They said it checked out fine. But I didn't want to mess with it. I bought a new battery, and it has never happened again.

Hmm, "sediment" build up thick/heavy enough to "short out" the battery? How fast did you turn that corner in order to move that much sediment? Did you then make a hard left turn to move the sediment back in place? With so much plate material laying in the bottom of the battery, how was it able to pass a load test?

I suspect that the problem was elsewhere and you bumped a wire or connection while R&R'ing the battery.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Hmm, "sediment" build up thick/heavy enough to "short out" the battery?

You seem to assume the bottom plate is inches away from the bottom of the battery case. What if it is only 1/4 inch or less?

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

How fast did you turn that corner in order to move that much sediment? Did you then make a hard left turn to move the sediment back in place?

It was a hard right off the main drag and I was probably going 25-30mph. I did need to make a soft left coasting into a parking spot, but 30 seconds later, the sediment apparently settled enough to allow the engine to start right up again.

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

With so much plate material laying in the bottom of the battery, how was it able to pass a load test?

It did pass a load test and the battery would also start the car without fail. However, the engine died on a turn more than once, probably due to sediment bunching up opposite the direction of the turn, shorting out the battery. It is not possible to simulate the inertia experienced on a turn during a load test.

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

I suspect that the problem was elsewhere and you bumped a wire or connection while R&R'ing the battery.

I checked all the battery connections including the battery to ignition switch connection the first time it happened. All battery cables, wiring and connections were clean, tight and in pristine condition.
I have not had any problem since replacing the battery and I have made the exact same turn at the grocery store parking lot several times since then many times. I have absolutely no doubt that the old battery was shorting out on turns.

[Grumpy Rick]

I had a similar problem last year on my T-Bird. Checked out EVERYTHING, got new coil, resistor, condenser, points were burned and got new ones, Carb and fuel pump checked out.

Got really good advice here, and tried it all. Cannot say for sure what the problem was, but I finally put in a Pertronix ignition and matching coil in a later 292 distributor from E-bay. Eliminated condenser, points, and resistor.

Problem solved.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

You seem to assume the bottom plate is inches away from the bottom of the battery case. What if it is only 1/4 inch or less?



It was a hard right off the main drag and I was probably going 25-30mph. I did need to make a soft left coasting into a parking spot, but 30 seconds later, the sediment apparently settled enough to allow the engine to start right up again.

It did pass a load test and the battery would also start the car without fail. However, the engine died on a turn more than once, probably due to sediment bunching up opposite the direction of the turn, shorting out the battery. It is not possible to simulate the inertia experienced on a turn during a load test.

I checked all the battery connections including the battery to ignition switch connection the first time it happened. All battery cables, wiring and connections were clean, tight and in pristine condition.
I have not had any problem since replacing the battery and I have made the exact same turn at the grocery store parking lot several times since then many times. I have absolutely no doubt that the old battery was shorting out on turns.

Okay, I need to learn to never say never, I guess. But in 40+ years as a mechanic plus growing up on a farm, I never saw this. It been awhile since I've seen the inside of a battery, but it seems like there used to be at least 1/2" or so space for sediment. Maybe some plates were loose. I've always assumed (yes,assumed) that battery sediment was semi-solid, like sludge in an oil pan and couldn't slosh around. Anyway, if a new battery fixed, the old one was kaput.

[Daves55Sedan]

I doubt they are leaving that much space at the bottom of the battery anymore now that everything has become more condensed to save money on material. That battery was just three years old. It was an Exide battery from Rural King (Farm supply store).

[L5wolvesf]

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Originally Posted by Grumpy Rick

Got really good advice here, and tried it all. Cannot say for sure what the problem was, but I finally put in a Pertronix ignition and matching coil in a later 292 distributor from E-bay. Eliminated condenser, points, and resistor.

Problem solved.

I'm going to second this recommendation. I have a Pertronix ignition in an off road race car and it has survived the beating. They are a very good upgrade.

[50fordcoupeman]

Grumpy.............I too run a Pertronix in a 302 in my avatar. Have been pleased with it for 4 yrs now. Was recommended to me by a member of the Portland OR Thunderbird Club.

[Ford56]

Just an update for anyone who might be interested; I've taken out the car again, yesterday, and drove it around town, making several 90 degree turns, and even a 180 degree turn, and there haven't been any problems. The car starts right up, every time. I am not really convinced that the original problem was the neutral safety switch, but, the tightening of the loose bolts is the only thing that has been done, so, maybe it was the cause. How that could affect a car while it was driving fine, in the middle of a turn, I don't understand. I still suspect an electrical component, like the ballast resister, or coil, but, they checked out okay. So, I'll continue to keep my phone w/me on any drive, and keep a sharp eye out for any possible sputter, hesitation, or out of the ordinary noise. Thanks to all for the comments.

[ford32tudor]

Onwards and upwards my friend

[Ford56]

Originally Posted by ford32tudor

Onwards and upwards my friend

Thx for the interest. This is a five year old thread, but, as an update, I've had the car out many many times since then, and no problems. So, I just let well enough alone. Haven't done anything to it and it's running fine.

[Merc Cruzer]

If it aint broke, don't fix it!