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Old 09-29-2013, 11:08 AM   #1
DavidNA
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Default English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Hi,

Just joined, this is my first post, I have just bought was is believed to be the only surviving UK Ford Dagenham built 1935 V8 22 HP three window coupe de luxe .It is RHD, was originally fitted with the early 2 exhaust valve 22 HP engine, which was replaced by the slightly later Model 62 22 HP engine which is the same as the US V8-60 from 1937 onwards.

It has been off the road since 1940 when the first owner died, the original engine block cracked in the harsh winter of 1962, and between 1962 and 1978 the damaged engine was replaced with a Ford Dagenham replacement engine R88505P, which is in the car today, however it has not run for many years, and is seized.

In 1978 the coupe was sold by Sotheby's in the UK, and the car was sold to a Mr Bass, an American, who shipped the car back to Chicago, it remained unused although dry stored until he died in the last couple of years. I have bought the car from the very helpful Nick Ellis and his father from Old Creek Motors near Chicago, who bought it from the Bass family.

Condition is excellent, 19652 miles on the clock from new, original interior, mats, original seats and mats in the dickey (rumble) seat, original paint and all original fittings which are a little different for the US Home market cars, headlamps, side lights (fender lights), semaphore indicators on the scuttle, and the 22HP engine. I've posted a few pics, the cream side panel is period, having been added by the first owner, Dr Robert Shephard of Cookham Dean, Berkshire, who ordered the car from the stand at the 1935 Ford show in London.

The car will stay as is, due to the rarity and originality, it will be cleaned and sympathetically re-commissioned, so hence I need some advice on engine compatibility with the British V8-60 and the US V8-60 . Just as intro I have collected cars for forty years since my teens, mainly British 1930's sports and racing cars, a few E Type's and XK's, AM DB's and last year a prototype FWD '64 Mustang - so happy working with older engines as well as classic. The last three years have mainly been 37/38 Buick Coupes and a '40 Packard 120, and now the Ford V8.

From what I understand, the original 60 engine is rare, as most were updated to the 62 engine, there being perhaps under 10 of the original 3355 known in Europe and Australasia. The 2227 cc 60 HP engine was designed for Europe, and launched in Europe before the US, where it became popular for Midget racers.

Question 1. Are the British engine parts interchangeable with US or Canadian parts ? The British engine has a different inlet with no provision for a mechanical pump, as it runs on an Autopulse electric pump, plus the engine has an aluminum sump, which was also on the early 37/38 US V8-60 engines ?

Question 2. The V8-60 (22HP) engine has a different gearbox to the 30 HP 3621 cc car, and the 30 HP engine will not fit the 22HP transmission. As I want to install a replacement engine whilst the existing engine is rebuilt over the winter,has anyone any experience of fitting a 1940 V8-60 engine with the heavier crank to an earlier transmission or earlier 22HP / V8-60 car. The 1940 V8- 60crank is some 2" longer, and I will need to change install the existing dynamo due to the fact the 40 engine drives from the bottom pully, probably the alloy sump, and possibly the inlet manifold from my British engine to utilize the electric fuel pump.

So any information about the interchangeability of the 1940 V8-60 engine with the 37/39 engines and transmission would be welcome as well as parts interchangeability between US V8-60 2227 cc (136 cu in) and the British manufactured 2227 cc V8-62 22HP engine.

Thx

David
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:24 AM   #2
Mark Slight
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Very nice photos, thanks for sharing.

I can't answer your questions as I've never has a and Early V-8 Ford with a 60 hp engine. I'm sure you will get some answers soon.

Mark
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:41 AM   #3
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Very interesting car. I was not aware of the small V-8 being avaiable prior to 1937. I would like to see some pics of your prototype FWD '64 Mustang too. Can you post some pics of it on the late V-8 forum for us to see?
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

If it were mine, I would rebuild the engine rather than replace with another engine for the interim. It doesn't take long to rebuild a V8 60 and i'm sure you will find a shop that can handle the job. Just because it is siezed does not mean that it is not salvagable and maybe still in reasonable shape. My first try woud be to get it unsiezed. It may be OK on the inside, just stuck.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:49 AM   #5
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Nice car David, I remember it being for sale a few months ago.I had two 36 rhd Dagenham 3 windows, ...I believe there is a 35 3 window in Durham and another 35 rhd 3 window surfaced a couple of years ago.....I think Dream Cars bought it.There are a couple of V8 60 engines for sale on ebay UK ...not sure of the year etc, but might be worth a look.

Welcome to the barn, and keep the updates coming on that great coupe.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:51 AM   #6
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

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The 60 hp engine was actually designed for use in the year or two prior to the U.S. 1937 Ford model year. It was targeted for the UK because of a sort of luxury tax on larger cubic in.engines that the Ford 221 V8 fell into and hurt sales. Ironically the tax was lifted later on. I have always wondered if this is why Henry pushed the "thrifty sixty" in US production 1937-1940 or was it really to compete with the Chevy 6 economy engine.
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Those are some rare heads, with front water outlet. Neat car.

Neal
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Welcome David, Nice car ,I have a 35 Five window owned 52 years ,
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:58 PM   #9
DavidNA
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

This week the pre war registration documents were located and the engine in the car, is original to the period 1937 - 1939, it is the engine number in the registration book from 1939.
It is no doubt a factory replacement for the two exhaust valve engine, so I will now rebuild rather than replace it, thanks for all your posts.
Thx
David
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:40 PM   #10
Ian NZ
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

The English 1935 Ford V8 came in assembled from Canada S.K.D. from Canada and there were 3355 two exhaust port, four main bearing engines produced at Dearborn and were fitted at Dangenham, England to the 1935 cars, trucks, and chassis. Some were also supplied from Dearborn to Strasbourg in France for their Matford Ford models until the started their own production of the three exhaust port model engines. Also available for these 1935 English models was the larger 21 stud V8 engines. You will see on the front cross member the mounts for fitting either the 60HP or the 21 stud engines. The two exhaust port engine which was first designed in U.S. 1934 only lasted in vehicles one year, 1935, and was not a good engine, parts for them were hard to find when they had a problem, so in 1936 onwards several of the 1935 vehicles had the two exhaust port V8-60 engine replaced with the later three exhaust port V8-60 engine and some had the larger 21 stud V8 engine fitted as well.
The transmissions on the V8-60 engine had lower, and different ratio gears to the 21 stud V8 powered cars and the rear end ratio was lower at 4.44 to 1 and front spring and the radiators were different, so quite a bit had to be changed if the car was to run correctly with the 21 stud engine.
All the main parts in three exhaust port V8-60 engine fitted to the English vehicles are the same as the U.S.A V8-60 engines.
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File Type: jpg Mountings for the V8-60 and the 21 stud engines.jpg (78.4 KB, 61 views)
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

What a great littlle coupe! Can't help you with the tech but I like your car.
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Ian, what a great lot of info.
this is indeed a great site.
Lawrie
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:16 PM   #13
Graeme / New Zealand
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle buck View Post
Very interesting car. I was not aware of the small V-8 being avaiable prior to 1937. I would like to see some pics of your prototype FWD '64 Mustang too. Can you post some pics of it on the late V-8 forum for us to see?

Grouse 35, love it! Like Uncle Buck I'd like to see the proto Mustang ( Mustangs are my other motoring passion). Please post pics.

GB
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:48 PM   #14
Ian NZ
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrie View Post
Ian, what a great lot of info.
this is indeed a great site.
Lawrie
Some of the 1935 two exhaust port, four main bearing V8-60 engines fitted to a 25cwt chassis was a Model 61 with a single rear wheel, it was designed in America for the English market in 1934 and were imported into Australia where they were fitted with a cab and tray or van body, and some could have come to N.Z. that's where the two remaining engines came from. Two more of these engines have now been imported into N.Z. from U.S.
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File Type: jpg 1935 Ford V8-60 engine.jpg (51.8 KB, 100 views)
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Thanks Ian that is very useful, I have found a 39 US engine rebuilt, just trying to work out if my inlet manifold will fit, as I have the Autopulse rather than the mechanical fuel pump fitted, plus I would like to use my aluminium sump, rather than a steel sump
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

'64 FWD MUSTANG V8 FF PICS.
I have posted two sets on the Post 50's V8 page
Enjoy !
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidNA View Post
'64 FWD MUSTANG V8 FF PICS.
I have posted two sets on the Post 50's V8 page
Enjoy !
Thank you!
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:10 AM   #18
Graeme / New Zealand
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

I second Uncle Buck. Amazing Mustang.

GB
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:53 PM   #19
DavidNA
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

If anyone wants to see the car it is on display at the Tampa Bay Museum

http://www.tbauto.org/cars/ford_mustang_awd.htm

Cheers

David
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Old 10-07-2013, 06:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: English Built '35 V8 22HP Three window coupe

David , I have an Aluminum oil pan for a 60 with the part # 52P-6676 B3
I have never been able to find what it came off . Does yours have the same # /
You care is awesome , I have quite a bit of v8/60 stuff if you need something .
Cheers
Tony
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