open drive shaft converstion

[Popeye31]

Ok guy and gals I have a costumer that bought an open drive shaft conversition kit from craigs list. the owner had died and the wife was selling all his Model A stuff. anyway there are no instructions. but I was hoping some one might reconise the parts. ill get pics as soon as I get home tomorrow. but all of the parts are in that redish brown primer.the drive shaft the housing to hold the pinon gear,the four linksfor the rear end the brake rod even the bell housing for the t5 convertion. any of this ring a bell for any one.was hoping the primer would Id the supplyer so I can get some instructions. I prity much have it sorted out how things go but there is always the little detail I might not know about . Im building this speedster for him because he want to drive in the great american race. any help is apprecated.

[brokenspoke]

Check out Hot Rod Works....might be one of theirs

[Earle]

Just a thought: Whenever you consider a change to an existing design, ask yourself - why was it designed this way in the first place? Henry wouldn't have incorporated the torque tube just because he enjoyed adding extra weight, expense and manufacturing complexity to the car - for no practical reason.

Isn't the "torque tube" or drive shaft housing on the Model A there to react and transfer thrust loads from the rear end into the rear of the transmission and engine and ultimately to the engine mounts and frame? It's not there just as a dust cover for the U-joints.

If the torque tube is removed the rear axle housing is then free-floating (except for the radius rods) and the rear wheel drive torques and thrust loads and axle housing twisting will have to be dumped into the drive shaft and universal joints. They are not designed for those loads. The rear transverse springs won't effectively react forward thrust loads.

Also, the rear radius rods are bolted to the forward end of the torque tube. Where will you attach them if the torque tube is removed?

Maybe the more-seasoned experts here can chime in and enlighten us on why one would want to remove the torque tube in the first place and where I may be missing something in my comments above.

Earle

[frank mcdaniels]

Hey popeye, The kit I got from auto restorations came in redish brown primer. I think I might still have the instructions somewhere in my paper work. The kit worked well for me after I sorted out some wrong bearings that came with the kit. The instuctions where a little sketchy in a few places. But I love being able to down shift with ease,hardly ever use the brakes, and my A flys like the wind. Frank

[John Schlegel]

Try search engine "model a 5 speed conversion"

[George Miller]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I go along with Earle

[Earle]

Hey, George, You and I must really be missing something about how this "open drive shaft conversion kit" works and the reasons for doing it. I've heard of folks talking about this conversion previously here so it must work and handle all the related load conditions properly.

But I still would like to hear an explanation of what benefits and functional improvements are achieved by doing such a "conversion." What drives poeple (no pun intended) to even want to go to the trouble of doing it?!

Earle

[flatheadernie]

Earle, could be the T 5o/d tranny u can use, ernie n tx

[modelAtony]

Popeye 31. Make sure that style overdrive can be used in the great race. In 2003 I entered the great race with 31 tudor and Im glad that I called Gary Benard from FT Worth, tx to have him install the f150 4 speed overdrive. Gary advised me that the f 150 was not ok'ed by great race during this time because it was not allowed. This is the reason I went with Mitchell overdrive. Corky coker owns great race now . Have your customer check what he can run before he gets into trouble. have fun modelAtony lafayette,la

[just plain bill]

Originally Posted by Earle

Hey, George, You and I must really be missing something about how this "open drive shaft conversion kit" works and the reasons for doing it. I've heard of folks talking about this conversion previously here so it must work and handle all the related load conditions properly.

But I still would like to hear an explanation of what benefits and functional improvements are achieved by doing such a "conversion." What drives poeple (no pun intended) to even want to go to the trouble of doing it?!

Earle

I own 2 A's and can no longer drive them do to inability to operate clutch. Considering an automatic and plan on open drive. Do you suppose the 4 links could be part of the suspension conversion?

[brokenspoke]

Originally Posted by Earle

Just a thought: Whenever you consider a change to an existing design, ask yourself - why was it designed this way in the first place? Henry wouldn't have incorporated the torque tube just because he enjoyed adding extra weight, expense and manufacturing complexity to the car - for no practical reason.

Isn't the "torque tube" or drive shaft housing on the Model A there to react and transfer thrust loads from the rear end into the rear of the transmission and engine and ultimately to the engine mounts and frame? It's not there just as a dust cover for the U-joints.

If the torque tube is removed the rear axle housing is then free-floating (except for the radius rods) and the rear wheel drive torques and thrust loads and axle housing twisting will have to be dumped into the drive shaft and universal joints. They are not designed for those loads. The rear transverse springs won't effectively react forward thrust loads.

Also, the rear radius rods are bolted to the forward end of the torque tube. Where will you attach them if the torque tube is removed?

Maybe the more-seasoned experts here can chime in and enlighten us on why one would want to remove the torque tube in the first place and where I may be missing something in my comments above.

Earle

I'm putting in a T-5 and keeping the torque tube....I'm using a T-5 from a 4x4

[Popeye31]

Hi Earle. I get what you are saying about the torque tube and ford built it and it worked fine. No argument there. But the car is not mine I’m just building it for a friend. He is a very enthusiastic car Hobbiest and Model A lover and has 7 of them to prove it. All of which are all original. With flat head fours and three speed trans and all still have the torque tube. This particular build is a speedster. I don't believe Ford made a speedster. They were the hot rod of the day. Some speedsters weren’t even all ford parts. As far as experts go. I’m also a car Hobbiest and Model A enthusiast with five in my stables all of them all original except for my Tudor sedan it has a flat head v8 but I did retain the torque tube because it was simple and it works. All of my As were destin for the scrap yard before I came along and bought them to restore and save a piece of history. I’m also ASE, and I car certified. With a degree in automotive repair. I am the New Orleans As personal mechanic and have worked on about 50 As in the past year with problems ranging from tire repair to full engine rebuilds. So I think I am qualified to do any and all mods that are common place in the model A world. I’m not fussing just giving a little back ground of me and my friend.

[denis4x4]

I have a 1929 CCPU with the T-5 conversion, reinforced stock radius rods and a B motor with a CRAGAR head. A real joy to drive with the Mel Gross F-100 steering box.

[Earle]

Hi, Popeye31. Your automotive credentials and Model A experience are impressive. It's obvious that you'd have no problem doing any conversion or modification on any car very successfully. But I'm still curious about what the benefits are in removing the torque tube from the Model A drive train. And, generally, what other drive train and rear suspension "modifications" must be made at the same time to handle the various loading conditions that the torque tube was designed for.

It all seems to be part of building a speedster.

But, again, what is gained by going to all this trouble?

Thanks, Earle

[PetesPonies]

Roadster, not much more to say than what you have experienced is not good MIG welding. So it isn't accurate for you to make a comparison to TIG with your limited experience. I do know what you are talking about when you say OCC MIG welds just to hold something on But really, it's not that bad. Here are some I do.

Here is a patch just tacked to get it in place




then here is the same patch welded and finished.



Hopefully you can see there is a difference between a "hack" and doing it correctly.

[Stretch Cab]

Just asking...... Where the torque tubes the standard of the day accross the automotive industry? Did Ford have a choice of going open? What was Chevy using at the same time?

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Stretch Cab

Just asking...... Where the torque tubes the standard of the day accross the automotive industry? Did Ford have a choice of going open? What was Chevy using at the same time?

!955 was the first year for Chev cars with a open drive. 1949 was the first year for the Ford car. Trucks came much quicker.

[Popeye31]

sorry for the late reply.

Earl the whole reason for the conversion is the owner is going with a t5 S10 trans which is a open drive shaft trans.I don’t believe there is a conversion kit to make the s10 trans a torque tube type trans . The reason behind the s10 Trans is. This transmition is a synchronized 5 speed and will allow the owner to up shift and down shift easer and drive at faster speeds and lower rpms than the 3 speed Model A trans. Im sure you have heard of guys beating the mains out of there A motors. That is because of sustained high speeds. This is due to the engine not being able to handle the rpms .now as far as the torque tube goes since the S10 trans is a open drive shaft type and there is no adapters to convert the s10 trans to torque tube. The torque tube needs to be eliminated. The fix for that is a four link that attach to the rear end and also attach to the frame so the rear end doesn’t spin around and put undo load on the ujoints. Or make a bracket that will allow the existing bars to attach in a similar location as they were originally. There is also a ladder bar setup that can be used to remedy the rear end twist. I’ve heard of a f250 Trans being used to accomplish the same goal (lower RPMs higher speeds) and still retaining the torque tube but my friend had already purchased all of the parts to do it this way. And it is a very common swap in the Model a seen. Hope this helps. If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them if I can.

[Bob C]

Somebody makes a closed 5 speed conversion.

Bob

[Not George]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Somebody makes a closed 5 speed conversion.

Bob

Popeye31's Customer all ready has the parts for the open conversion.