Squealing Brakes

[Earle]

Front brakes squeal as I'm coming to a stop. Started only a couple hundred miles ago (embarrasing in public!). It's reduced somewhat, but still there, after driving a while and the brakes get warmed up. The noise is increased while in a turn as compared to rolling straight.

All new Schwalm-installed brakes, cast-iron drums, shoes, etc. about 1000 miles ago. Over the winter, I pulled all the wheels and drums and thoroughly blew out and vacuumed away any accumulated dust ('wasn't much there).

About 100 miles ago I tried roughing up the brake lining surfaces with a wire brush to try to remove any hardened, "glazed" surface I thought was causing it. And I cleaned out the inside of the drums (braking surfaces) with laquer thinner. This all helped a little but only for a very short time.

Am I too "squeeky clean"? Do these brakes actually need some lining dust coating everything in there to lend a "cushioning" effect?!

Any suggestions?

Thanks, Gents...

[lindy williams]

Try tightening the front brake operating wedge stud. It tightens with a castle nut on the outside of the backing plate. One cotter key hole tighter on mine stopped the squeal.

[Patrick L.]

What kind of shoes and are the ends chamfered ??

[Earle]

I just pulled the drums. Everything looks clean, normal and dry.

Checked tightness of nuts on operating wedge studs. They were very tight, both wheels. I couldn't begin to get another cotter pin hole without breaking something from over-torqueing.

The woven fabric (asbestos?) linings are riveted to the shoes (10 rivets each). The linings are practically new looking and are not worn down to anywhere near the rivet heads. Disbursed throughout the fabric linings are tiny metallic "fibers" that resemble brass or copper.

All linings are chamfered at both ends.

The surfaces of the linings are run-in to a smooth, almost shiny finish. Wear and contact look evenly distributed

The drum braking surfaces are nicely turned, smooth and without any score marks, gouges, rough spots, etc. Just the faintly-visable machining marks from being turned when the brakes were completely redone ~1000 miles ago.

I typically tighten the spindle nut finger tight (while spinning the wheel slowly) then to the next cotter slot.

[Patrick L.]

Generally woven linings are used with steel drums and bonded/molded with cast iron, but, some have had good luck with woven and steel .. Loose/bulging linings can cause squealing..

[Patrick L.]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I meant woven and cast.. I need to proof-read 'more better'..

[1931 flamingo]

I question the "smooth shiny surface" on the shoes................
Paul in CT

[1crosscut]

I think that Patrick might be right. I understand that the woven linings should be used with steel drums and the composite shoes with cast iron drums.
Dave

[Earle]

Gents, I spoke too soon. I made an assumption after checking only one (right side), and before getting to the other, operating wedge stud nut tightness. The nut on the operating wedge stud outside the left backing plate was dead loose! Not even finger tight! And it was cotter-pinned in that condition!

My "stupid" assumption was that if all my brake rebuilding work was done in the same shop, then their mechanic would be consistant in the thoroughness of his work from left brakes to right brakes. - and that some level of quality inspection was being done. WRONG. (very first "alleged" glitch of any kind for this particular shop over many years of extensive work).

I highly doubt the nut could have gotten that loose just under normal operating conditions.

Lindy - you get the stuffed teddy bear prize for your excellent suggestion to check these wedge-stud nuts.

Taking her to a show tomorrow. We'll then see if this was indeed the culprit. (You can keep the teddy bear, Lindy, even if the squeak is still there. The nut needed to be tightened anyway and I missed it after many years and miles of careful service and inspections!).

'Will report back with driving results.

[RHD]

Sounds to me like the linings are too hard.
There is a grey softer bonded lining available, which I have used for 25 yeas with no problems on steel ansd cast drums. See pic.

[Earle]

RHD - Do you have a name and source for that gray, softer lining?

And I would suppose that you have to use it on both the front and rear brakes for consistant braking friction?

Thanks.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Earle

RHD - Do you have a name and source for that gray, softer lining?

And I would suppose that you have to use it on both the front and rear brakes for consistant braking friction?

Thanks.

A source for it is Mel Gross. I do not know the name, however. He uses it on the shoes he re lines with his cast iron drums.

[V4F]

i have bonded shoes . they squeal now & then , but i figure it is just dirt .

[Earle]

50 miles round trip to the show today and no brake squealing.

The only significant thing I did was to tighten the left brake operating wedge stud nut as Lindy suggested. 'Had to be it - or MOSTLY it....

I'm concerned about other possible contributors that were mentioned here as well:

> Wrong lining material for cast iron drums (woven vs molded/composite?)
> Lining material that's too hard?
> Riveted vs bonded?
> Lining surface too smooth and shiny?

Could tighteneing the wedge stud, although necessary and obviously effective, be masking the other issues and they will simply get worse and eventually bring the noise back?

Would like to hear other input too before I bite the bullet and change out my linings for something else. I've gotta be sure that would be a move in the right direction per other folks' experiences with cast iron drums and noise issues.

I admit I'm strongly biased in favor of Schwalm's (Ora) for his great reputation and the fine work he's always done for me (and many, many others) over many years. It was Schwalm's that recommended and installed the riveted, woven linings (with little metallic fibers in them) when he installed my cast iron drums. That carries weight with me - unless he simply made a very rare mistake.

Thanks for any additional thoughts.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I wouldn't change linings and I wouldn't worry about it. No need to worry about a non-problem!

[Jim Parker Toronto]

There is really not a whole lot of difference in the material, woven vs molded, IMHO. I find the largest difference to be in the fact of whether or not you use rivets or get the material bonded on. They (the rivets) alone will use up 2/3 of the thickness of the lining. Why not get to use all of the brake material? Its cheaper in the long run......

[juke joint johnny]

Some of the late 31 Model A's had cast iron Rocky Mountain brake drums on the front , Didn't they also have pressed steel drums on the rear? Somehow I can't imagine Ford fitted 2 different types of shoes at the factory!! So the soft woven shoes must be good for either type drums. The Key word is Soft linings for mechanical brakes, Hard linings for Hydraulic's
Hope this Helps
John Cochran

[ctlikon0712]

John, the rears in late 31 were cast iron also. They were just a more nomal lookin drum than the 5 spoked so called Rocky Mountain drum. Here are a few pics.

[juke joint johnny]

Craig,
Thanks for posting those pic's I have some of the Rocky Mountain fronts

but I have never seen the old cast rears !!! Thats 2 things I've found out on the

Ford Barn today and it's only 10:30 in the morning here !! Never to Old to learn!!!

Did Ford still put the soft woven linings on the cast drums ? or did they go to

something else?
John Cochran

[ctlikon0712]

Your very welcome John! I love this forum, so much to learn and trade.
I had heard, and I havent seen it in writing, but that was when Ford went to the "composite" matl. The changeover was along side the cast iron.