How many Open Bumpers were made for 28 ARs?

[Jayce]

Every "AR" model A I see has the closed bumpers, I've only seen about 10 pictures of Open Bumpers. My dad has a 28 AR with an open bumper and I really want to know what he's got.

I read on google once that 200 were made, but I may of read it wrong. Any experts on this?

[plind]

Hi..
They said the first 200 was born with oben Bumpers.. But i know that * A 189* did came with closed Bumpers.. But the Car was first going of the assambly line 25.Nov 1927..
So if you have Oben Bumpers on the Model A, it may have a very low Win nr..

Per,

[Charles Reese]

1. Suggest you measure your open bumpers end-to-end. The early ’28 "A" open bars were 63-1/2 inches long. The later Model “T” open bumpers were 60 inches long.

2. can you determine the number stamped on the driver side of the engine? Here's hoping another ‘early bird’ has been found!

[Jayce]

Originally Posted by Charles Reese

1. Suggest you measure your open bumpers end-to-end. The early ’28 "A" open bars were 63-1/2 inches long. The later Model “T” open bumpers were 60 inches long.

2. can you determine the number stamped on the driver side of the engine? Here's hoping another ‘early bird’ has been found!

The original engine block was cracked a while back, but I think we still have it laying around under some junk.

[dlshady]

Jayce,

If you can post some detailed pictures of the car, it won't take long for a few of us to tell you if it's an early enough car to have had open bumpers. There are enough unique features on those earliest cars that it should be very obvious one way or the other. Not to be a pessimist, but my guess is that you've got a car with Model T bumpers (assuming you're talking about the front bumper). That's what 99.9% of them are.


Deron

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by Jayce

The original engine block was cracked a while back, but I think we still have it laying around under some junk.

Just saying, cracked blocks can be repaired. Number matching E28's are rare.

[Tudortomnz]

Most of the existing late 1927 production cars do not have open bumpers.
A 495, Deans Phaeton [Montana] does have open rear bumperettes but as noted A189 does not.
We can discount A1 as that car was basically a mid '28 with an engine stamped A1 at some point for promotion purposes ; a photo of it in 1943 shows it with regular bumpers .[ as last used by Edisons wife in 1933.
I think only some pre production or display cars had the open bumpers?

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by Tudortomnz

Most of the existing late 1927 production cars do not have open bumpers.
A 495, Deans Phaeton [Montana] does have open rear bumperettes but as noted A189 does not.
We can discount A1 as that car was basically a mid '28 with an engine stamped A1 at some point for promotion purposes ; a photo of it in 1943 shows it with regular bumpers .[ as last used by Edisons wife in 1933.
I think only some pre production or display cars had the open bumpers?

Watch out, the lynch mob will be along shortly to tell you how "authentic" that car is...

Seriously though, I agree with you. I have my doubts as to how many really escaped with the open bumpers, especially the front one. I have only seen one photo of a real live open front bumper car "in the wild" (I.E. Not a Ford promotional photo) and that was posted here not too long ago.

Having said that, the ratio of a possible 200 cars to the total production of roughly 4.5 million is pretty small so I could understand why we haven't exactly seen a lot of them.



Deron

[Tudortomnz]

Deron, yes you do have to be careful. Anyway, any discussion on the v.e. cars is interesting.
Tom.

[Bick in New Zealand]

I am of the opinion that perhaps more than 200 escaped !
I cannot imagine why Ford, that was rushing to produce the 'New Car' would produce only 200 of any part let alone the front bumpers, particularly when they had been on Model Ts for a year.
I also recall reading an article by Doc Kalinka where he estimated perhaps 2000 would be more likely figure.
It is interesting to see that the very early English cars on display in late 1927 had open bumpers yet the earliest motor designated for RHD was in the A1200-1400 range ( I cannot find the exact number at the moment)
On another side note Doc posted a picture of an early Canadian roadster with no bumpers in the MARC News a while back, with a question why? In the May '28 Canadian Service Bulletins it states that there has been a shortage of bumpers and bumperettes during the past few weeks and gives full instructions for assembling them to the frame when they arrive! I wonder why there was a shortage?

[ericr]

on this subject, any speculation as to why they changed the design? did the open-ended ones rumble more? confusion with the appearance of the last Model "T"s that was thought unfashionable?

[clo2jim]

I have a friend in Nova Scotia that has the front open-ended bumpers on his 28. This car also has emergency brake on left side against the side panel. The next time I am in Nova Scotia I will try to get more information on the car.

[dlshady]

Interesting perspective Bick. I've wondered the same thing, but then again they changed the location of the serial number pad on the engine block after only a very few were produced. Heck, that was changed before the first car actually rolled off the line. Hard to say what they might have done back then, or why they might have done it.

I can say that A745 had the more traditional closed bumpers, at least when it was a month old. Below is a photo of it when it was a month old, and if you look closely you can make out a 1927 Tennessee dealer plate on the front. I suppose it's possible that it could have had the bumpers changed at some point in the first month, but I seriously doubt it.

[Ron in Quincy]

My Light Delivery, A1276, engine to Assembly 12/3/1927, has the Style 1 Closed End Front Bumper; the Style 1 Front Bumper has the same arc at the end as the earlier open end style front bumper. The Style 2 Closed end Front Bumper is what you find on most 28 and 29 vehicles.

Attach is a drawing I made a number of years ago of the two styles of Front Bumpers:

[d.j. moordigian]

Once you see one in person(thank you Ron!),...you won't forget the look of the bumper.
The photo that Deron posted, #13, shows what Ron is saying...

[dlshady]

Ron and Dudley,

Did the change in profile of the rear bumpers happen around the same time as the change in front bumpers?



Deron

[Ron in Quincy]

I do not know about the rear bumpers ? ;
my Light Delivery does not have a rear bumper so I never had the occasion to look into the subject.

I suspect Gary Karr, Mike Gooding, Dean Drenzek, or one of the other early A guys may have the answer ?

Ron

[Tom Wesenberg]

Did the early open end bumpers have manufacturing marks on them like the later bumpers with a large "C" or another repeating design?

[Ron in Quincy]

Tom,

My mother's cousin, my 2nd cousin, Bill Salmon purchased all the new parts in 1933 from the Ford agency in Sonora, CA when the agency went broke and closed; he moved all the parts to his ranch on Weber Rd. in Stockton, CA.

I had an occasion to open a new box that contained a new 26-27 "T" front bumper, the bumper clamps and center bumper medallion . As I recall they were no special marks on the back of the bars. My cousin gave me the center bumper medallion "Ford Made in U.S.A." which was painted with a black background. Being it was N.O.S. I put it on A1276 when I did the restoration.
Still have the original that came on the A.

Ron

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by dlshady

Ron and Dudley,

Did the change in profile of the rear bumpers happen around the same time as the change in front bumpers?



Deron

No,...not from what I understand.
They closed the ends, changed the "plate" were the rivets are and left
the shape (profile / top view). Then in 1929 they changed the shape..