The Ford Barn

stallerl · 07-13-2013, 11:44 PM

I'm installing new repo brake rods and am finding that the clevis ends are not aligning with the cross shaft arms very well. I actually have to pull on the rod sideways to pull the clevis end to fit into the arm. What's up with that? I'm sure the arms on the backing plates are straight (hopefully) as are the cross shaft arms (hopefully!). Other then them not being straight what could cause the ends not to fit into the arms without tension? Or is that fit typical? I would appreciate any input before I go back out to the garage tomorrow and pull the rods so they fit to find that they will bind when the brake is applied.
So in summary, is it OK to have some sideways tension on the rods to get them to fit the arms?

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 07-13-2013, 11:52 PM

The problem will be in the arms as the brake rods should be straight. Do not bend the rods sideways to make them fit.

pat in Santa Cruz · 07-14-2013, 01:55 AM

I do not know if you changed or had someone change the arms on the backing plates. But, they are a right and a left. If you have them reversed, the rods will not align with the cross shaft.

stallerl · 07-14-2013, 10:17 AM

Thanks for the input. What I meant when I said I had to pull on the rods sideways is, I just have to pull, not bend, the rods to align with the arms. The rods are straight (no bends in them). They would not just simply slip into the two arms as I would think they should.
I'll check the arms to see if I can 'move' them a little bit so the rods do just slip in. At least I hope I can do that. I didn't change the arms on the backing plate although the PO surely could have??? Thanks again!

Tom Wesenberg · 07-14-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stallerl

Thanks for the input. What I meant when I said I had to pull on the rods sideways is, I just have to pull, not bend, the rods to align with the arms. The rods are straight (no bends in them). They would not just simply slip into the two arms as I would think they should.
I'll check the arms to see if I can 'move' them a little bit so the rods do just slip in. At least I hope I can do that. I didn't change the arms on the backing plate although the PO surely could have??? Thanks again!

I first thought the problem was as Pat said.

So, are you saying the flat antirattle brake rod springs are what's pulling the rods over some?

stallerl · 07-14-2013, 11:21 AM

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Yes, the flat antirattle springs are pulling the rods over some, but I also have to pull them to the side to get the clevis to fit into the cross shaft arm. Maybe it's nothing and I'm making more of it then it really is. I would like to think that if all was 'perfect' the clevis would slip right into the arm. I have to pull mine over a bit for it to fit. Like I said, maybe it's fine and I'm making more of it then need be. I'm going back in the garage in a few minutes to see if it 'looks' better today then it did yesterday! Sometimes ya just gotta walk away from it for a while.

Tom Wesenberg · 07-14-2013, 11:49 AM

I have to pull mine slightly over also. I'd loosen the flat spring mounting bolt, then install the pins and tighten the bolt last. This way you can let the spring find it's most natural position and have the rods as straight as possible.

Remember the flat springs are mounted on the front side of the bracket on the front, and the rear side on the rear bracket.

QGolden · 07-14-2013, 03:18 PM

I did the same thing Tom did. Mine were a bit tight. I loosened all the spring bolts, put the clevis' in, then bolted the springs tight, pulling a slight bow in the rods.

stallerl · 07-14-2013, 05:12 PM

OK, thanks. I was going to go and mess with the car earlier today but my wife had other plans for me! Oh well, there's tomorrow. Thanks again...

Greg out west · 07-16-2013, 09:29 AM

Hi Lou,,

When I first had my car year's ago there were no emergency brake rod's...when I went to put the rod's on, had to bend the rod at the end as somebody had put the wrong lever on..

It was year's latter before I found out there was a left & right..I don't think that's
your problem...Clevis pin should slip right in..On the rear service brake lever you have to install it the correct way angled toward the crossshalf Had to redo one side having installed it wrong....

Also thank's for your help with my license question the other day,,,,

Greg out West,

stallerl · 07-17-2013, 12:37 AM

Hey Greg out West, you are not the first to tell me about bending the rod at the end to make it fit. Hopefully I can get into the garage tomorrow and see what I have and how best to approach the fix.
Are the rear arms removable with the brake backing plates intact? If so I think I'll make an attempt to remove them and make sure the left is on the left and the right on the right which should allow the rods to better align with the cross shaft arms.
Thanks...

Greg out west · 07-17-2013, 10:08 AM

Hey Lou,

Got to thinking why one of the rear lever "Arm's" was on wrong ?. I replaced the bushing in the backing plate & the left it sit for "year's" as I worked on other part's of the chassie...I used some kind if drift to knock out the pin with the backing plate installed on the axle...

Just looked at my car, the top of the lever where the pin & rod attach (look's like a "L" ) faces to the outside to the wheel...I wish I had a digital camera, I'ed take a picture of it..There is a picture of the correct position of the lever in one of my book's Practical information about 30-1 Coupes A toZ by Marith McCoul page 26,

Take care,

Greg,

Tom Wesenberg · 07-17-2013, 10:56 AM

Greg, the brake lever clevice has an offset that should face IN, but your's was facing OUT, is that correct?

Greg out west · 07-17-2013, 12:57 PM

Hey Tom,,

Yes,, the offset as you call it is to toward the inside...I guess I just worded it differently ?

Take care my friend

Greg out West,

stallerl · 07-18-2013, 12:32 AM

Got some garage time today and crawled under the '29 and checked out what I had going with my brakes. I looked at the rear arms and determined that are mounted correctly as they are marked lh and rh. So I'm good there. I disconnected the 4 service brake rods to see how much pressure is on them when pinned in place and found that they're not really too bad. I also removed the flat anti-rattlers to see what they did to the straightness and found that there was more on one side then the other. I may just leave them off???
Now to start over with the adjustment of the pedal rod then onto the brake rods again...
Fun times!

Tom Wesenberg · 07-18-2013, 05:43 AM

Harmonics may start your brake rods vibrating without the flat springs. They also help the brake pedal return to the full up position, so the brake light goes out.

flatheadkev · 07-18-2013, 07:18 AM

I am also in the process of finishing a brake job, hopefully this weekend. When I took the rods off they all had been bend in order allow installation. I straightened three and replaced one that was worn half way through were it rubbed on the flat spring. I plan on having to rebend the arc on the flat springs so hole the rod passes through lines up with the two clevis ends. Does this make sense?

Tom Wesenberg · 07-18-2013, 08:07 AM

Kev, yes, I've had to rebend many flat springs so they give proper support to the rods. If I remember right, one did snap years ago.

Greg out west · 07-18-2013, 09:24 AM

Hi Lou,,

I remember way back I got the wire type spring's at Ford Obsolete..They rattled pretty good. So I put silicone on them where the rod went thru the spring...worked pretty good,,,I was thinking why couldn't one use a rubber grommet in the flat type to hold the rod quietly ?

Hey Lou,,,Do you ever make it to the Knott's buffet on Tuesday for the Senior's ?

Greg out West,

stallerl · 07-18-2013, 10:27 AM

I'm the type of guy that has to do things to the extreme, so I've been told. So for me to just clean and repair isn't what I like. I have always taken something completely apart then go through every piece then re-assemble it back to where it's near perfect. I've done more body off restorations then not, so doing the brakes without completely taking them apart is a bit difficult for me. (yup, I'm a sick!)
My immediate goal is to be able to drive my car for short neighbor drives. So before I take it off of the jack stands and fire up the motor I want to make sure I have 'some' brakes.
Based on my past, and present ways, I'm sure I'll be taking the car completely apart for a full restoration one day. But until that day comes I'm going to try and keep the car drive-able, and stop-able even if it's not as I would want it.
Thanks for all your input. This place is great!
Greg out West, no I haven't been to Knott's buffet on Tuesdays. At least not yet! We should plan to meet there one day for great fried chicken and some Model A talk.

07-13-2013, 11:44 PM	#1
stallerl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Huntington Beach CA Posts: 157	Brake Rod Alignment? I'm installing new repo brake rods and am finding that the clevis ends are not aligning with the cross shaft arms very well. I actually have to pull on the rod sideways to pull the clevis end to fit into the arm. What's up with that? I'm sure the arms on the backing plates are straight (hopefully) as are the cross shaft arms (hopefully!). Other then them not being straight what could cause the ends not to fit into the arms without tension? Or is that fit typical? I would appreciate any input before I go back out to the garage tomorrow and pull the rods so they fit to find that they will bind when the brake is applied. So in summary, is it OK to have some sideways tension on the rods to get them to fit the arms?

07-13-2013, 11:52 PM	#2
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,520	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? The problem will be in the arms as the brake rods should be straight. Do not bend the rods sideways to make them fit. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

07-14-2013, 01:55 AM	#3
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? I do not know if you changed or had someone change the arms on the backing plates. But, they are a right and a left. If you have them reversed, the rods will not align with the cross shaft.

07-14-2013, 10:17 AM	#4
stallerl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Huntington Beach CA Posts: 157	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Thanks for the input. What I meant when I said I had to pull on the rods sideways is, I just have to pull, not bend, the rods to align with the arms. The rods are straight (no bends in them). They would not just simply slip into the two arms as I would think they should. I'll check the arms to see if I can 'move' them a little bit so the rods do just slip in. At least I hope I can do that. I didn't change the arms on the backing plate although the PO surely could have??? Thanks again!

07-14-2013, 11:21 AM	#6
stallerl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Huntington Beach CA Posts: 157	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Yes, the flat antirattle springs are pulling the rods over some, but I also have to pull them to the side to get the clevis to fit into the cross shaft arm. Maybe it's nothing and I'm making more of it then it really is. I would like to think that if all was 'perfect' the clevis would slip right into the arm. I have to pull mine over a bit for it to fit. Like I said, maybe it's fine and I'm making more of it then need be. I'm going back in the garage in a few minutes to see if it 'looks' better today then it did yesterday! Sometimes ya just gotta walk away from it for a while.

07-14-2013, 11:49 AM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? I have to pull mine slightly over also. I'd loosen the flat spring mounting bolt, then install the pins and tighten the bolt last. This way you can let the spring find it's most natural position and have the rods as straight as possible. Remember the flat springs are mounted on the front side of the bracket on the front, and the rear side on the rear bracket.

07-14-2013, 03:18 PM	#8
QGolden Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 1,231	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? I did the same thing Tom did. Mine were a bit tight. I loosened all the spring bolts, put the clevis' in, then bolted the springs tight, pulling a slight bow in the rods. __________________ It's not what people think they know that will hurt them, it is what they think they know that aint so! -Mark Twain. It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.- Unknown

07-14-2013, 05:12 PM	#9
stallerl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Huntington Beach CA Posts: 157	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? OK, thanks. I was going to go and mess with the car earlier today but my wife had other plans for me! Oh well, there's tomorrow. Thanks again...

07-16-2013, 09:29 AM	#10
Greg out west Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So. Cal Posts: 249	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Hi Lou,, When I first had my car year's ago there were no emergency brake rod's...when I went to put the rod's on, had to bend the rod at the end as somebody had put the wrong lever on.. It was year's latter before I found out there was a left & right..I don't think that's your problem...Clevis pin should slip right in..On the rear service brake lever you have to install it the correct way angled toward the crossshalf Had to redo one side having installed it wrong.... Also thank's for your help with my license question the other day,,,, Greg out West,

07-17-2013, 12:37 AM	#11
stallerl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Huntington Beach CA Posts: 157	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Hey Greg out West, you are not the first to tell me about bending the rod at the end to make it fit. Hopefully I can get into the garage tomorrow and see what I have and how best to approach the fix. Are the rear arms removable with the brake backing plates intact? If so I think I'll make an attempt to remove them and make sure the left is on the left and the right on the right which should allow the rods to better align with the cross shaft arms. Thanks...

07-17-2013, 10:08 AM	#12
Greg out west Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So. Cal Posts: 249	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Hey Lou, Got to thinking why one of the rear lever "Arm's" was on wrong ?. I replaced the bushing in the backing plate & the left it sit for "year's" as I worked on other part's of the chassie...I used some kind if drift to knock out the pin with the backing plate installed on the axle... Just looked at my car, the top of the lever where the pin & rod attach (look's like a "L" ) faces to the outside to the wheel...I wish I had a digital camera, I'ed take a picture of it..There is a picture of the correct position of the lever in one of my book's Practical information about 30-1 Coupes A toZ by Marith McCoul page 26, Take care, Greg,

07-17-2013, 10:56 AM	#13
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Greg, the brake lever clevice has an offset that should face IN, but your's was facing OUT, is that correct?

07-17-2013, 12:57 PM	#14
Greg out west Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So. Cal Posts: 249	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Hey Tom,, Yes,, the offset as you call it is to toward the inside...I guess I just worded it differently ? Take care my friend Greg out West,

07-18-2013, 12:32 AM	#15
stallerl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Huntington Beach CA Posts: 157	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Got some garage time today and crawled under the '29 and checked out what I had going with my brakes. I looked at the rear arms and determined that are mounted correctly as they are marked lh and rh. So I'm good there. I disconnected the 4 service brake rods to see how much pressure is on them when pinned in place and found that they're not really too bad. I also removed the flat anti-rattlers to see what they did to the straightness and found that there was more on one side then the other. I may just leave them off??? Now to start over with the adjustment of the pedal rod then onto the brake rods again... Fun times!

07-18-2013, 05:43 AM	#16
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Harmonics may start your brake rods vibrating without the flat springs. They also help the brake pedal return to the full up position, so the brake light goes out.

07-18-2013, 07:18 AM	#17
flatheadkev Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Highland, NY Posts: 38	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? I am also in the process of finishing a brake job, hopefully this weekend. When I took the rods off they all had been bend in order allow installation. I straightened three and replaced one that was worn half way through were it rubbed on the flat spring. I plan on having to rebend the arc on the flat springs so hole the rod passes through lines up with the two clevis ends. Does this make sense? __________________ “You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm.”

07-18-2013, 08:07 AM	#18
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Kev, yes, I've had to rebend many flat springs so they give proper support to the rods. If I remember right, one did snap years ago.

07-18-2013, 09:24 AM	#19
Greg out west Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So. Cal Posts: 249	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? Hi Lou,, I remember way back I got the wire type spring's at Ford Obsolete..They rattled pretty good. So I put silicone on them where the rod went thru the spring...worked pretty good,,,I was thinking why couldn't one use a rubber grommet in the flat type to hold the rod quietly ? Hey Lou,,,Do you ever make it to the Knott's buffet on Tuesday for the Senior's ? Greg out West,

07-18-2013, 10:27 AM	#20
stallerl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Huntington Beach CA Posts: 157	Re: Brake Rod Alignment? I'm the type of guy that has to do things to the extreme, so I've been told. So for me to just clean and repair isn't what I like. I have always taken something completely apart then go through every piece then re-assemble it back to where it's near perfect. I've done more body off restorations then not, so doing the brakes without completely taking them apart is a bit difficult for me. (yup, I'm a sick!) My immediate goal is to be able to drive my car for short neighbor drives. So before I take it off of the jack stands and fire up the motor I want to make sure I have 'some' brakes. Based on my past, and present ways, I'm sure I'll be taking the car completely apart for a full restoration one day. But until that day comes I'm going to try and keep the car drive-able, and stop-able even if it's not as I would want it. Thanks for all your input. This place is great! Greg out West, no I haven't been to Knott's buffet on Tuesdays. At least not yet! We should plan to meet there one day for great fried chicken and some Model A talk.