Reconditioned Model A engine block

[mill48]

Hi everyone. I hope someone on here can help me with a unique need for my 1928 Model A Tudor. The water jackets on my Model A have been breached and I am in need of a replacement block in good condition at a reasonable price. Can anyone in this forum refer me to someone who can maybe help me with this?

[J Franklin]

Where is the damage? Can it be repaired? A Model A club in your area may be able to steer you in the right direction.

[mill48]

I doubt that it can be repaired. Some time ago a bolt broke on the intake manifold. In the process of removing the bolt, I accidentally drilled into the water jacket and was not able to stop the leak. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the only remedy is to replace the block. I could be wrong, which is why I am appealing to this forum.

[nkaminar]

Try your local club to find an engine block.

[nkaminar]

Mill48, My water jacket is also breached in the same location. A previous owner drilled out the stud and went into the water jacket. I discovered it when changing manifolds. I put a gasket sealant on the stud when I re installed it and have no problems with a leak to date. I used a silicone sealant so that I could remove the stud at some time in the future if needed.

[AzBob]

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The manifold studs on my ’26 Buick were a “through hole” direct into the water jacket. The threads were sealed with a liberal coating of aviation Permatex.

[J Franklin]

Even if you did not use a sealant the leak wouldn't hurt anything. Just use a bit of any type that might do the job. I would choose LockTite Blue, or old style shellac gasket sealer. Save your money for when you really bust something!

[redmodelt]

My 1948 F2 flat head, almost all the head bolts are open to the water jacket. Just use sealer as suggested.

[Synchro909]

If that's the only problem with the block, I wouldn't even consider replacing it. A little dab of sealant on the stud and you're back in business. I have a block that has chunks of CI broken out where someone screwed a couple of head studs too far in. Discarding the block did not even occur to me. Decent blocks are becoming harder to find. Why make things worse for no reason?

[Lawrie]

Arnold, I have a pie of them, they may soon go to the scrap dealer if no one wants them.
Don,t worry about the studs going into the water jacket, the V8,s have all but one going into the water.

Lawrie

[wwirz]

Don't worry about this kind of water jacket leak. Put some high temperature sealant on the thread and reinsert the stud like synchro did. We had an 84 Pontiac Grand Prix and on the water pump bolts one was drilled into the water jacket by design.
This is not an issue to concern yourself with.

[mill48]

How did you deal with the broken chunks of cast iron? The bolt hole is now oversized and I cannot get the proper torque on the bolt.

[mill48]

Before you scrap them, can you post pictures and info on their condition?

[J Franklin]

You had just said it was drilled too far. If there is other damage you might want to take your block to a machine shop and maybe it can have a reasonable repair.

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by mill48

How did you deal with the broken chunks of cast iron? The bolt hole is now oversized and I cannot get the proper torque on the bolt.

It may be possible to install a helicoil. I have used lots of them with very good success where the head stud holes was bad.

There are other thread inserts available for a very bad hole that has been really screwed up. Your local automotive machine shop should be able to help you with this.

My opinion,

Chris W.

[1crosscut]

Originally Posted by mill48

How did you deal with the broken chunks of cast iron? The bolt hole is now oversized and I cannot get the proper torque on the bolt.

Have you considered installing or having a machinist install a Heli Coil?

[Jack Shaft]

Timeserts are better than helicoils..a sleeve instead of a coil. But yes you can junk the block, they made millions of them. Hell I just tossed one with a water jacket crack, bored .125 over and needed main bearings.. felt a little soul twinge when it slipped off the forklift tip into the scrap bin but it passed..

[Jeff/Illinois]

mill48... this is another option just now coming available. One of Terry Burtz' brand new engine blocks.

http://www.modelaengine.com/

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

mill48... this is another option just now coming available. One of Terry Burtz' brand new engine blocks.

http://www.modelaengine.com/

Yes, get one of those and give us some reports. That would work all the way around. I saw a model a engine mailbox once It was great.

[Licensed to kill]

A couple thoughts. One, 348 and 409 Chevy blocks came from the factory with a couple bolts that go into a water jacket. Sealant is required, no big deal.Two, I personally wouldn't screw around with heli-coils especially when it is for a stud, not a bolt. I had a head bolt break off on my Model A engine and just drilled the hole out and tapped it to 1/2" and put a stepped stud in it. By stepped, I mean that the bottom is 1/2" then, right at the top of the threads (flush with the deck of the block) it goes to the stock 7/16". Easy, cheap and stronger than the stock stud. These studs are available from the vendors but I just made mine. If the application was for a bolt rather than a stud, I would go with the sleeves that Jack Shaft mentioned.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

Arnold, I have a pie of them, they may soon go to the scrap dealer if no one wants them.
Don,t worry about the studs going into the water jacket, the V8,s have all but one going into the water.

Lawrie

I've been searching and advertising for a while looking for a motor to rebuild. I've given up.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Jack Shaft

Timeserts are better than helicoils..a sleeve instead of a coil. But yes you can junk the block, they made millions of them. Hell I just tossed one with a water jacket crack, bored .125 over and needed main bearings.. felt a little soul twinge when it slipped off the forklift tip into the scrap bin but it passed..

It's not how many they made that matters - it's how many are still about. A decent block is not easy to find, let alone a motor for rebuild with the "extras" on it, like crank shaft, cam shaft, timing covers, sump.
As I said, I've given up.

[Jack Shaft]

I've got nine...3 B's and 6 A's..got an A with great babbit,.125 over with a beavertail crank,nice rods and a B cam available if your interested.you pay the ride

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by Jack Shaft

I've got nine...3 B's and 6 A's..got an A with great babbit,.125 over with a beavertail crank,nice rods and a B cam available if your interested.you pay the ride

You can’t get a more generous offer than that !

[Jack Shaft]

Originally Posted by McMimmcs

You can’t get a more generous offer than that !

ship to AUS from CA? that ain't cheap.. having one available doesn't mean free btw.. very cheap? yes, don't want much for it.. but not free.

[Synchro909]

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Originally Posted by Jack Shaft

I've got nine...3 B's and 6 A's..got an A with great babbit,.125 over with a beavertail crank,nice rods and a B cam available if your interested.you pay the ride

ship to AUS from CA? that ain't cheap.. having one available doesn't mean free btw.. very cheap? yes, don't want much for it.. but not free.
Thanks very much for the offer, "Jack". As you say, freight from Ca to here isn't cheap. Something as heavy as an engine would cost literally thousands to fly over and hundreds by surface. Surface freight can take several months. I am still waiting for some axles I bought back in July. The latest estimate is sometime in Feb. It was no slower in the days of sailing ships.
I have said here a number of times you guys don't know how good you have it. That might give you a clue.
That engine sounds good but I don't think I can do anything about it. I'll just have to wait - something will turn up one day. Thanks again.

[Jack Shaft]

No worries.. good luck in your search. DHL will ship 150lbs for 678.00US in 5 to seven days.. figure 300US for the engine, you're looking at a 1000US plus or minus.. figure this engine doesn't need the machine shop, just cleaning parts and assembly, it would pencil out to your advantage...However, I'm with you though, finding one local is your best bet.

[Lawrie]

Arnold, let me know, like I said I will be cleaning out some later in the year,
some blocks may have New Burlington cranks, inserted rods and rebored with new thin ring pistons various bore sides.
Lawrie

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by mill48

Hi everyone. I hope someone on here can help me with a unique need for my 1928 Model A Tudor. The water jackets on my Model A have been breached and I am in need of a replacement block in good condition at a reasonable price. Can anyone in this forum refer me to someone who can maybe help me with this?

Yes: Rather than trying to find a replacement block you can fix yours.
Lock N Stitch sells a kit that you can repair your block permanently.
Check it out.
http://castingrepair.locknstitch.com...rts-basic-kits

We have used their kits in your situation and it solves the problem.
www.jandm-machine.com

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

I personally wouldn't screw around with heli-coils especially when it is for a stud, not a bolt.

I do not understand why you feel there is a difference if the hole was for a stud or a bolt. I have been in the machining and engine business for more than 60 years and have used hundreds of Heil coils with a stud. Done properly, this is a very good repair.

On some competition engines, we would automatically heil coil some stud holes that were prone to pulling out. This was done as a preventative measure.

Like a lot of things, when poorly done, the end result will be less than satisfactory.

Also, some holes that have been stripped out are so buggered up that a Heli coil is not the proper solution.

My experience and my opinion.

Chris W.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

Arnold, let me know, like I said I will be cleaning out some later in the year,
some blocks may have New Burlington cranks, inserted rods and rebored with new thin ring pistons various bore sides.
Lawrie

PM on its way

[big job]

I vote for a step stud. You can drill and tap the block as big as you want. You have a
friend with a lathe then its a piece of cake

[eagle]

If the hole is broken out off center you can even put an off center step stud in. I don't remember where I saw them available, maybe Fastenal? Or? I keep a catalog in the back of my mind, that's where I put all of the strange items I see, but sometimes I can't remember where I put the catalog!

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by CWPASADENA

I do not understand why you feel there is a difference if the hole was for a stud or a bolt. I have been in the machining and engine business for more than 60 years and have used hundreds of Heil coils with a stud. Done properly, this is a very good repair.

The reason I mentioned bolts different that studs is because if you replace a head bolt that is supposed to be 7/16" as is the case in a model A with a 1/2", you would have to drill out the head also to clear the larger bolt where as with a head stud, you can only make the threaded portion in the block 1/2" and leave the rest of the stud 7/16 to accommodate the hole in the head. Therefore, with bolts, you would be better off to repair the threads in the block to the original size IE, heli coil or sleeve.

On some competition engines, we would automatically heil coil some stud holes that were prone to pulling out. This was done as a preventative measure.

I would be interested in hearing more about this as, on the surface, I don't understand how heli-coil threads would hold better than the bolt/stud threads when it's the same parent material.

Like a lot of things, when poorly done, the end result will be less than satisfactory.

Amen to that.

Also, some holes that have been stripped out are so buggered up that a Heli coil is not the proper solution.

My experience and my opinion.

Chris W.

In which case (with a stud) you could go up TWO sizes to find sound parent material then neck the stud down to factory spec. Of course you would want to radius the transition point.