Head gasket reinforcement

[Tom Endy]

A number of years ago I observed an old-time Model A guy installing a copper FelPro head gasket on a Model A engine. One of his techniques was to strip the insulation off a length of 14 gauge copper Romex wire and lay a nominal inch or so on top of the gasket in the space between the #1 & #2, and #3 & #4 cylinders. He would attach it with some glue. He explained that this would crush down into the gasket and reinforce the thin area of the dash 3 and dash 4 gaskets.

Has anyone had experience with this technique?

Tom Endy

[Jim Brierley]

i've done that, can't tell you what gauge i used but am sure it was smaller than 14. i used womens hair clips to hold the wire in place until the glue hardened. on OHV race engines today, they machine a groove in the top of the block and allow about .010" of wire to stick above the block.

[Crazydaddyo]

I cut a piece of "tag" wire that is @ .018" thick between the two head studs that are in that area. I use super glue to glue it to the block. then I lower the head gasket on top. I only do this on copper head gaskets. I'm running @ 7.6 : 1 comp ratio. Since I started doing this, I haven't had a gasket failure there.

.

[Crazydaddyo]

Here is a picture:

[mshmodela]

Interesting thread, wondering if the manufactures of the gaskets could not embed a layer of wire between the gasket holes where the studs as shown above.

[glenn in camino]

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Originally Posted by Tom Endy

A number of years ago I observed an old-time Model A guy installing a copper FelPro head gasket on a Model A engine. One of his techniques was to strip the insulation off a length of 14 gauge copper Romex wire and lay a nominal inch or so on top of the gasket in the space between the #1 & #2, and #3 & #4 cylinders. He would attach it with some glue. He explained that this would crush down into the gasket and reinforce the thin area of the dash 3 and dash 4 gaskets.

Has anyone had experience with this technique?

Tom Endy

I do that every time. Works for me.

[hardtimes]

Hey Tom,
Yeah, my current 6:1 flathead with copper head gasket is so equipped. Just experimenting and laid the old copper wire called dynamite cap wire (thin..only about 20 thou, between 'weak' areas of gasket, i.e.- between 1 and 2; 3 and 4 cylinders. I also lay same wire the WHOLE LENGTH of the left side of block, where it usually leaks/weeps on many A/B engines. I do not use glue, perse, but spray copper coat one coat, then let it TACK UP then wire then spray two more coats of copper coat. Running strong and no weeps/seeps and/or blowuuts , thus far. I'm experimenting, in preparation for use of 8:1 Iron Winfield that I've ordered from Tod.


Jim B book has been my inspiration for experimentation. He also suggests that a pantagram (sp ?) machine can be used to cut a groove , for wire, all the way around the top of block. Never seen this machine, nor heard of it, but am searching for one, eh ...as that would be the cats meow , IMO , for sealing/correcting Fords failure to design more studs into the A/B block !

BTW..I think that the wire that you mentioned, for house wiring, is way tooo large for this type use.

[Rich in Tucson]

I always thought seeping occurred because water passages in sandwich gaskets (who knows what but no longer asbestos between two sheets of metal) were open to the water with no metal crimps or fire rings such as us used on the bores. I have never seen a seep with such gaskets if the water holes are all treated with something like Indian Head gasket shellac or other water impermeable sealant.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Rich in Tucson

I always thought seeping occurred because water passages in sandwich gaskets (who knows what but no longer asbestos between two sheets of metal) were open to the water with no metal crimps or fire rings such as us used on the bores. I have never seen a seep with such gaskets if the water holes are all treated with something like Indian Head gasket shellac or other water impermeable sealant.

Hey Rich,
Well, over a period of time, I've tried different types of head gaskets. Some composite types seemed to seep and cause a mess. I've also had copper gaskets , without sealant and without the rings that you mention , leak/seep. I've also had the silly cone type seep. Just trying to get my efforts/technique down to where that kind of mess is done with. Now , I'm talking about higher/higher comp ration head use. As if you can get higher compression ration heads to seal great on a consistent basis, IMO, you've done good. There's lots to learn and sometimes going off into the weeds, nets something besides ticks/sqeators ! There have been dozens of threads of 'how to' regarding heads and gaskets , and everyone has experiences/tales to add. To me listening to racers tell how they seal up A/B engines with 10:1 + cr heads gives me the urge to experiment using what they tell me..it's fun also

[Gary WA]

Why don't they make the gaskets the way they were years ago! Using a felpro 7013 with Brumfield torque method you have no problems at least i haven't!

[Pete]

On our blown flathead Cadillac Bonneville engine we have concentric O-ring grooves all the way around the cylinder in both the heads and the block and use a solid copper gasket.
The grooves are put in with a CNC mill.

[colin1928]

Been doing the same for years on any head with more than 6.5 to 1 compression
I use 0.020 wire and counter sink the stud holes in the head where the wire wraps
have not found it necessary on stock heads or lower than 6 to 1 comp heads

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Gary WA

Why don't they make the gaskets the way they were years ago! Using a felpro 7013 with Brumfield torque method you have no problems at least i haven't!

I agree. We run three 5.9 heads with 7013 C third revision gaskets and never a problem even after 17 years on the oldest one .

[Jim Brierley]

the wire is used to keep the gasket in place, they can blow-out from compression/cylinder pressure. seeping water can sometimes be prevented by using sealant on the inside of the gasket, to prevent water from seeping between the upper and lower metal sheets. good luck!

[Bob Bidonde]

Most of the copper gasket failures I have experienced start as burnouts between Nos. 3 & 4 Cylinders, not blowouts. Once the burnout weakens the gasket so it can longer withstand combustion pressures, the gasket blows out. I think that adding copper wire on both sides of gasket at the narrowest part is worth a try for burnout protection.

Copper gaskets made for oversize cylinder bores are especially weak.

By the way, McCord made a steel jacketed gasket that works very well with high compression cylinder heads. However, I suspect that McCord is out of business. I bought a few McCord gaskets at Hershey several years ago, but I have not seen any of them since.

[Purdy Swoft]

The only head gasket failure that I have ever had with a model A was with a steel clad gasket in the narrow spot between cylinders 3&4. I never payed any attention to the brand but it was the low cost gasket from J.C. Whitney. I installed the gasket when I overhauled the engine in 71 and it failed in 81 . The big bore Felpro copper clad gaskets are still holding good for me .

[OL JENNY]

Where do you get the big bore Felpro copper gaskets. I need for a Snyder's 6:1 head and 100 over bore. Have blown a composite with silicone and a copper under 2000 miles on total rebuild by very reputable engine rebuilder. Machined the head and hope it works now, but seem to need a gasket that does not catch the edges of chambers.

[Pete]

As has been noted in several other threads recently, the fire ring CAN NOT hang over either the head or block or it will not seal for very long.