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Old 11-17-2020, 07:03 PM   #1
dono50
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Arrow 8BA lifters noisy

Have a couple of loud lifters upon initial startup, otherwise runs good, I guess I screwed up the valve lash. Did not use adjustable lifters.
Next years project but other than using a stethoscope how can I isolate the cylinder/cylinders ? Don’t think pulling the spark plug wires one by one will work. Comments
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Old 11-17-2020, 08:33 PM   #2
19Fordy
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Once you have the intake off, you can check the valve lash and determine which lifters need adjustment. Best to adjust all the lifters.

Opps! He doesn't have adjustable lifters. (This is an added edit.)

Last edited by 19Fordy; 11-18-2020 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 11-17-2020, 08:47 PM   #3
JSeery
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

I'm with 19Fordy, pull the intake and check all of them. It is also possible that some of the adjuster have moved, they sometimes do that.

Update: I missed the no adjustable lifters part!

Last edited by JSeery; 11-17-2020 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 11-17-2020, 08:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

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Originally Posted by dono50 View Post
Did not use adjustable lifters.
So adjusting the lifters is out.
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Old 11-17-2020, 08:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Oh, missed the no adjustable lifters part! Well, it is a bigger issue now. The heads will have to come off the work on the valve stem length.
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Old 11-17-2020, 09:15 PM   #6
alanwoodieman
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

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pull the heads, valves, one at a time and change out to adjustable lifter, use the height of the lifter to preset the adjustable lifters, remember it is easier to back up the lifter than it is to screw them down.
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Old 11-17-2020, 10:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Regarding the adjustable lifters, for a 1951 8ba which is better to use, solid or hollow?
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Old 11-17-2020, 10:34 PM   #8
JSeery
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

For your application the solids, and the US made Johnson's are still available.
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

It's the ones you cannot hear that can be a problem. That said you either need to go to adjustables or replace the valve with one that has not had the stem ground and fit that one. The other alternative is to grind the seat to lower the valve but that is not advisable. Run it for a bit and see how it goes.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Your right, better loose than not enough clearance. It’s noisy, but I think I will run it for a while. For me, adjustable lifters are a last resort.
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:25 AM   #11
Seth Swoboda
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeryTangled View Post
So adjusting the lifters is out.
That is correct. Good eye Jeff.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:03 AM   #12
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Quote:
Originally Posted by dono50 View Post
Have a couple of loud lifters upon initial startup, otherwise runs good, I guess I screwed up the valve lash. Did not use adjustable lifters.
Next years project but other than using a stethoscope how can I isolate the cylinder/cylinders ? Don’t think pulling the spark plug wires one by one will work. Comments
That will not work you have to get in there with a feeler and find who is loose.
Whoever is loose then off comes the heads. I'm really not fond of adjustable
lifters either. I would find the loose one pop that out and measure the length
of the valve and compare with a new valve which dementions are in the book.
Remember we are dealing with thousands. A sheet of paper is like .004 thou
which seems so minute but say the intake should be .010 + .004 equals
.014 there is your tick. The exhaust should be .014 plus the sheet of paper
is now .018 theirs your tick. Now what? reface present valves, or new valves
then most don't like this, but I would just clean up the seats with a fine stone. Now with a good feeling, you're all good and new, now with valve guide in put in new valve in, and feeler gauge it. MAKE sure the cam is on its heal. We are on #1 exhaust, we want to hit .014 say you get more than
.014 like .016 then the valve has to be faced off a tight .002 thou. now too
tight then the stem has to be ground. Keep in mind we are splitting heirs.
Unlike carpentry we measure 5 times and grind 5 times . Takes a while and
how they did it, with expensive preset jigs 16 valves at time 5 seconds I hope this is understandable best I can write but this way, that engine will be as quiet as a cat on attack mode. Silent sam
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Old 11-18-2020, 12:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

If a follower to valve clearance check reveals no valves out of adjustment, a person may have to pull the heads and check for piston to head clearance or maybe a small object embedded in a piston top.

I've been running the Johnson solid type cam followers in one of my Mercs for a long time but they were so tight I had to fabricate a tool to hold the tappet while I turn the screw. The Johnson tools were (and should be) inadequate for the job. The screw fit should be very tight in the tappet so a tool or a drilled hole in the follower bore should be required so that the damn things don't try to back off after they run a while. I've heard of folks using a Wick & Lock type of Loctite to hold them but the parts have to be very clean to get the Loctite to work.

Some of the aftermarket ones have some tight adjuster screws and some not so tight. A person might be able to tighten them up by deforming the thread of the screw in some way but that practice could ruin the parts if not performed very carefully.

A lot of small town auto parts stores in areas with a fair amount of farming used to keep the Johnson solids in stock just for the old Ford tractors. That's how I've found several original sets over the years. Sadly, there seem to be less and less auto parts stores like that in the modern era. Top Line Automotive Engineering has the Johnson name now but I haven't tried any of their new products so I can't say yay or nay about them.
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Old 11-18-2020, 06:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

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Originally Posted by dono50 View Post
Have a couple of loud lifters upon initial startup, otherwise runs good, I guess I screwed up the valve lash. Did not use adjustable lifters.
By your first statement, I have to assume you have the equipment to adjust a stock valve train.
First off, forget adjustable lifters. That is a Mickey Mouse fix that has a high potential of failing.
The quickest and most reliable fix is do it like you did it the first time.
First determine which ones are noisy. There may be some that are loose but not noisy also. Fix these also as long as you are in there.
Pull the heads, pull the noisy valves, weld up the stem and re-adjust it.
This will be far faster than replacing the valve with a longer one because a new valve will have to be refaced along with the seat to seal properly and that will put grinding grit in the engine.

For welding the stems, if you have a TIG welder use 347 stainless rod. No explanation needed there.
If no TIG welder, use a torch and #16FC Eutectic rod. This has been used in race engines successfully for years.

When finished adjusting and checking all valves, take the time to go through ALL of the valves again. It is cheap insurance.
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Old 11-18-2020, 06:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

I’ ll run it for a while, then remove the intake and check the clearances. Will replace the problem valves with NORS and should be OK. Other than the noise it runs nice.
When I set the valve clearance I did one cylinder at a time, setting each cylinder at TDC and setting the clearance on both valves. Is that procedure correct ? More time consuming but I prefer to do it that way.
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Old 11-18-2020, 06:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Put adjustable Johnson's in mine 30 years ago. Never looked back.
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Old 11-18-2020, 06:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

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Originally Posted by dono50 View Post
I’ ll run it for a while, then remove the intake and check the clearances. Will replace the problem valves with NORS and should be OK. Other than the noise it runs nice.
When I set the valve clearance I did one cylinder at a time, setting each cylinder at TDC and setting the clearance on both valves. Is that procedure correct ? More time consuming but I prefer to do it that way.
NO, that is NOT the proper way. Neither valve is EXACTLY on the center of the cam heel at that point.
There are several methods of determining the center point. The easiest requires no special tools, only visual observation of max valve lift. Then turn the crank one turn. Use chalk marks on the pulley or crank flange for reference but REMEMBER to wipe the marks off before going to the next valve.
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:55 AM   #18
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

I'm thinking that with both valves closed you should be on the circle part of the lobe which should not vary. Given that it may you might want to move the cam a little and check for the loosest fit and adjust at that point.
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Old 02-14-2021, 12:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Quote:
Originally Posted by dono50 View Post
Have a couple of loud lifters upon initial startup, otherwise runs good, I guess I screwed up the valve lash. Did not use adjustable lifters.
Next years project but other than using a stethoscope how can I isolate the cylinder/cylinders ? Don’t think pulling the spark plug wires one by one will work. Comments
Update...I pulled the heads and intake and checked the valve lash using tdc compression stroke #1 adjusting both valve then rotating crank 90 degrees then next cylinder in firing order etc. Found 8 valves with excessive lash and replaced with NORS TRW valves and ground to fit. Started it up and valve noise is gone but have a knock at idle that seems to disappear when I rev.
Have not checked anything yet but suspect head clearance problem or rod hitting 8RT oil pan.
Will shorting out cylinders help isolate head clearance problem ?
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Old 02-14-2021, 01:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: 8BA lifters noisy

Update...I pulled the heads and intake and checked valve lash by setting #1 on tdc of compression stroke and adjusting both valves then rotating crank 90 degrees and adjusting both valves of next cylinder in firing order, etc. worked great and found 8 valves with excessive clearance. Replaced the 8 valves with NORS TRW valves and ground to fit.
Started it up and valve noise is gone but have a knock at idle that seems to disappear with revving.
Suspect head clearance problem or rod contact with 8rt pan. If I short out 1 cylinder at a time will that isolate a head contact problem ?
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