30 Starting... No fuel to cylinders, just carb

[Tulsa]

Ok, I am by no means a pro Model A owner. Not even close. I have done the research to see what needs to be cleaned and checked before start up. I have spark, compression, power, gas to carb (carb was just inspected and cleaned of all gunk) I do not seem to get gas past carb. the inlet on carb is wet. The cylinders are not wet at all.

What could the problem be?

Picture of car for reference...

[J Franklin]

Try a shot of starting fluid and see if it will start. If the valves aren't working right the cyls. can't pull gas vapor

[Tulsa]

We had a small amount before we cleaned carb, but couldnt get good spray in it due to angle. It puffed a few times and blew some smoke once, but we ran out of starter fluid.

[700rpm]

Check your line going into the carb. If the ferrule is too far from the end of the tube, the tube can close up against the filter screen and stop the flow of gas. When you remove the line it will look like gas is getting to the carb, and it is, but it isn't getting past the filter. Very common problem.

[Tulsa]

Gas gets to carb. When starting and choked I can feel it in the inlet of carb.

[Keith True]

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If you are getting enough gas to the carb it should run all over the place when you over choke it.If you are just getting a little wet inside the carb it isn't getting enough gas.What kind of suction do you get when cranking over with your hand over the carb? Was the carb taken apart and the passages reamed out with a wire? Or,were the passages blown out with a can of carb cleaner and an air hose and called clean.Take the drain plug out of the bottom and turn the gas on.The gas should gush out of there,steadily,and not slow down until the tank is empty.You need to try it for a couple of minutes,not 30 seconds.If the carb is truly good you may have to look more,such as sticky valves or a muffler plugged by mice.The A has big pistons trying to suck gas through a skinny pipe,if there is any gas at all in there it will get sucked up.Even sticky valves will suck something up.Now a plugged muffler won't let anything in.But,first,I think we need more details of exactly was done to the carb.

[Tulsa]

Originally Posted by Keith True

If you are getting enough gas to the carb it should run all over the place when you over choke it.If you are just getting a little wet inside the carb it isn't getting enough gas.What kind of suction do you get when cranking over with your hand over the carb? Was the carb taken apart and the passages reamed out with a wire? Or,were the passages blown out with a can of carb cleaner and an air hose and called clean.Take the drain plug out of the bottom and turn the gas on.The gas should gush out of there,steadily,and not slow down until the tank is empty.You need to try it for a couple of minutes,not 30 seconds.If the carb is truly good you may have to look more,such as sticky valves or a muffler plugged by mice.The A has big pistons trying to suck gas through a skinny pipe,if there is any gas at all in there it will get sucked up.Even sticky valves will suck something up.Now a plugged muffler won't let anything in.But,first,I think we need more details of exactly was done to the carb.

Thanks for the info.

We reamed out with a wire and carb cleaner, I will try the drain and see what that does.

Gas doesnt flow out like crazy when choked just gets carb inlet wet. I didnt think to check muffler, thats a good idea. If its sticky valves whats the best option for that? I have heard people spraying wd40 overnight? What would you recommend?

Thanks again for the help!

[redmodelt]

Put a little gas in each cylinder directly through the spark plug holes and see if you can get it to fire off that way. If the muffler is plugged be ready for a big boom! Might want to do outside.

[Tulsa]

Ok,

New spark plugs just to freshen it up. put little gas in each cylinder, no luck firing up. We disconnected the exhaust from manifold. WHen I crank it and put my hand over the exhaust manifold I get more of a suck and very very little blow... probably none. Would that point to stuck valves? If so whats the best option to unstick?

[Mitch//pa]

did you ever ck compression?

[Tulsa]

not officially, but there definitely was compression when we checked spark. Almost sucked my thumb in.

[redmodelt]

Uh, compression would push your thumb out. I would suggest doing a "REAL COMPRESSION" test and check the timing. Testing one or all four cylinder with your thumb does not give you a real picture of the engines condition.
Is it firing at the right time? When was he last time it ran? Has the timing been check by the timing pin?
Everything else right now is just shooting from the hip.
You could check the valves, look through the spark plug hole, is the intake valve opening on the intake stroke etc or pull the valve cover off and look at what the valves are doing. Do you have any repair manuals? Do you understand how to set the spray needle and use the choke to prime to start?

[Clem Clement]

If it has set awhile you might try a squirk of oil in the spark plug holes. This will ad somecompression.
clem

[James Rogers]

Sounds like a stripped timing gear. The cam is not turning so the cylinder you checked has the valves closed and when the piston goes down it will try to suck your thumb into the spark plug hole but it won't ever run. Remove the distributor cap and spin the motor and see if the rotor turns. This will tell you a lot. If the motor has sat for some time, the lifters could be stuck and strip the cam gear before the engine turns even once.

[redmodelt]

He says he has spark, that would indicate the cam is turning. Could be a plugged intake.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

He says he has spark, that would indicate the cam is turning. Could be a plugged intake.

Maybe not. If he is just checking for spark by shorting the points with a screwdriver, he would have spark and the rotor still might not be turning. Never take anything for granted. He also stated he had compression but only checked with a thumb field test. There is still no guarantee of proper compression till a gauge is used.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

He says he has spark, that would indicate the cam is turning. Could be a plugged intake.

the rotor could still be turning but cam timing could be off from worn/stripped gears.. needs to ck compression properly.

[redmodelt]

I was thinking about those two things also, using a screwdriver to check for spark by open and closing the points and the cam/crank gear not being in alignment ether being striped or miss installed.
Still, if the cam is turning, then he needs to check the compression dry and wet. Check the timing, the screw may have come loose and the timing is way off. Or theirs a big old fat mud dauber nest in the intake.

[james hitchcock]

Funny you have this problem. I was running Ol' Walter yesterday after adjusting his timing due to wear in the dizzy. Was running for a bit and was kinda coughing gave him the gas and had a bit of a carb backfire and evened out. Next thing I know he dies and now won't start. Checked and fuel is coming out the line to the carb. Checked carb for gunk and all looks clean. Doesn't want to fire at all now. Maybe I adjusted the timing too much. Although he did start after first try after the adjustment. What the heck this time.....

[Tulsa]

It has to be spark, valves all open and unstuck. We have sprayed starter fluid directly in, and also tried gas... nothing.

We get spark but it seems week. I also noticed the shock by touching top of plug is alot weaker than the shock of touching cap (when off) and top of rotor.

Thoughts on that?

I am convinced its lack of spark. I checked spark buy placing plug onto head to ground. I get spark, but not alot...

[Bob C]

You should have a nice blue spark and it should jump at least 1/4".

Bob

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

With just the rotor oon the dist, hold coil wire barely above rotor metal spring, long crank to see if spark is jumping "THROUGH" THE ROTOR & grounding out to the dist shaft. A very SLIGHT, thin spark might be seen, but shouldn't see a strong CRACKLE like spark. Look inside rotor bore, if it's been arcing, it usually leaves a rainbow lookin' discoloration in the bottom of that hole. Bill W.

[1931 flamingo]

Change the coil and condenser, probably condenser first. JMO
Paul in CT

[bogdonj]

Change the condenser and make sure the inside screw that hold the condenser is there and tight... I had the same symptoms as you and for days exhausted myself trying to trace the problem down and just happened to look and the dist and seen the set screw for the condenser missing...replaced it and it started on its first crank

[Tulsa]

Where is The set screw on the condenser? On the bottom?

[bogdonj]

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Originally Posted by Tulsa

Where is The set screw on the condenser? On the bottom?

Look at the dist and find the hole on it take a light and u will see a screw in there (drivers side)

[Tulsa]

So driver side there is an access hole for the set screw on side of distributor?

[Tulsa]

I see a spot on pass side. No screw. Threaded for small screw. Is that it? On pass side of dist.


Only hole I see on driver side is a thru hole on forward side. Then one on rear side that a wire goes into.

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by Tulsa

So driver side there is an access hole for the set screw on side of distributor?

Correct it grounds the condenser I believe..may not be your problem but check to make sure it's there or try changing out the condenser....it's easy to do and doesn't take long

[Tulsa]

Were you Still getting spark before you found that problem?

[bogdonj]

Pic of the dis.. does yours have this?

[Tulsa]

No!!! I'm getting excited now! Where can I get one of those parts? Just have the hole

So I can still get spark but this part does what?

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by Tulsa

Were you Still getting spark before you found that problem?

Yes.. I was getting spark.. it was the most frustrating thing ever. This is a video of me trying to start it... felt like it wasn't getting gas but it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gddWy...6&feature=plcp

Finally got it running but used alot of throttle to try and keep it going... right after this I noticed the screw missing on the inside of the dis that hold the condenser...changed it out and started right up. again, this might NOT be your problem but its good to check... it took me a week to figure it out.. patients is the best.

[Tulsa]

What's the part called? Where did you get it?

[bogdonj]

http://macsautoparts.com/model-a-for...0R3CHL1065715/

remember to buy the screw also.... MAC's is what most people use... I'm in Canada so I have suppliers that I buy from here also.

Do you have a pictures of your dis? be interesting to see what it looks like

[Tulsa]

Yeah it doesn't have the condenser at all. I found another dist in my bin of extra parts. I will toss it in there tomorrow and try it. I will snap some pics then. Thanks for the help!

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by Tulsa

Yeah it doesn't have the condenser at all. I found another dist in my bin of extra parts. I will toss it in there tomorrow and try it. I will snap some pics then. Thanks for the help!

No worries, just remember the old condenser that you have may be garbage also..then again some would say the new ones don't last long either. keep us updated.. interested to see what happens tomorrow. This is definitely your problem if you don't have one currently in the dist.

[Tulsa]

Sweet. We will try this one and if nothing order a new one asap!

[redmodelt]

If you have a NAPA store they may have one in stock or get it the next day or so.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Tulsa

No!!! I'm getting excited now! Where can I get one of those parts? Just have the hole

So I can still get spark but this part does what?

The condenser keeps the points from arcing and burning up quickly. It also greatly intensifies the spark.

Sometimes owners have removed the condenser from the distributor and mounted one up on the coil. Do you have one on the coil?

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Tulsa

Yeah it doesn't have the condenser at all. I found another dist in my bin of extra parts. I will toss it in there tomorrow and try it. I will snap some pics then. Thanks for the help!

Your's may be the modern style that has the condenser mounted to the top plate inside the cap.

[Tulsa]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

The condenser keeps the points from arcing and burning up quickly. It also greatly intensifies the spark.

Sometimes owners have removed the condenser from the distributor and mounted one up on the coil. Do you have one on the coil?

yeah looks like its up here, with a few wires going off it. I am going to pickup a new one and new coil pack and try that.

[bogdonj]

If you can take a picture of your setup... it might help us

[Tulsa]

Here is how it is setup currently

[Tulsa]

It runs! Needed new coil.

[bogdonj]

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Good news....congrats

[redmodelt]

Great, glad to hear that it's running. By the way, where the condenser is mounted works just the same as having it mounted in the distributor, also keeps it a lot cooler.