The Ford Barn

tomcarman · 01-18-2022, 01:41 AM

I have this engine that I'd like some advice on. It has been in the garage for decades and I'd like to map out a plan for it. I'd like opinions on the approximate year. From what I can gather off Van Pelts it is somewhere between a '38 to '42? The bell housing is integral but there is no number cast into it. The only other numbers found are pictured. There are no visible cracks I can see. I only recently exhumed it and have not inspected it closely. It is on a home built roller stand and could easily be moved. It is stuck. There is a local shop with hot tanking available and I'm thinking for starters I could remove the intake manifold and have it tanked as is, pistons and all. I haven't even looked if the oil pan is on it but if it is I'd remove that too. If any have further questions on existing conditions of it or further advice please ask. My thinking at least as a start is to get it cleaned, then go from there. Thanks for any input.
Tom

tubman · 01-18-2022, 02:03 AM

Looks like it will pass the "Pencil Test". Have you measured the bore?

tomcarman · 01-18-2022, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Looks like it will pass the "Pencil Test". Have you measured the bore?

Not yet. Forgot to, DUH! I'll do that and report back.

tubman · 01-18-2022, 02:10 AM

I'm just an "8BA Guy", but don't the trapezoidal water passages mean something good?

deuce lover · 01-18-2022, 02:37 AM

Its clearly a 21 stud. 36 and earlier. If it was '38 it would have the water pumps in the block.Pull the intake and see if its a vented block.If so it might be an LB.

V8COOPMAN · 01-18-2022, 02:43 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

.

That's a 21-stud, with the noticeable LACK of water pumps. Gotta be a '36 or earlier engine. DD

OOPS: Late by a hair!
.

Bored&Stroked · 01-18-2022, 01:51 PM

My best seat of the pants guess is that it is a 36 engine. It appears to have steel pistons and if I'm correct, they were introduced in 36. As long as the block is good - would be a good engine to build! Best of luck . . .

deuce lover · 01-18-2022, 02:06 PM

Pistons are flat top.I believe 36 were domed although the engine could have been rebuilt sometime in its life and pistons replaced.

Bored&Stroked · 01-18-2022, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Looks like it will pass the "Pencil Test". Have you measured the bore?

Hey Tubman, the infamous 'Pencil Test' is related to 39 - 42 flatheads . . . do not believe it applies to these earlier 21 stud engines (I believe they ALL pass the test).

AnthonyG · 01-18-2022, 02:20 PM

WTH is the pencil test

Kurt in NJ · 01-18-2022, 02:23 PM

If it is a poured Babbitt engine hot tanking it will damage the Babbitt

V8COOPMAN · 01-18-2022, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

WTH is the pencil test

It describes one physical feature of a block which will aid in identifying differences between different year blocks.

In the first picture, note the flat lip formed directly above the camshaft/timing gear COVER location. It sticks-out far enough that a PENCIL will sit on it. '39-'42, 24-stud flatheads also have that lip which WILL support a pencil, thus passing the "pencil test", thus indicating a 24-stud block in the '39-'42 range.

There is no way that the lip on block behind this timing cover would support a pencil, indicating probably a '46-'48 24-stud engine. DD

Ggmac · 01-18-2022, 03:55 PM

21 stud , my lb has the same 15a casting . Not sure if that is positive proof but it could be .

jimTN · 01-18-2022, 05:30 PM

Just pull the pan and a main. Lots of changes occurred when rebuilders used what new parts they had on hand.

cas3 · 01-18-2022, 06:18 PM

Is there a vent on the bottom, front of the oil pan? (pre 35 no vent), and If you can see a part number on the front water outlets, that may put a year on them anyway

Flathead · 01-18-2022, 06:29 PM

Main bearing journal diameter will narrow down the year.

Brian · 01-18-2022, 06:57 PM

Those front water outlets are 35

cadillac512 · 01-18-2022, 07:16 PM

Please don't hot tank the engine assembled. Take it completely apart and tank what parts need to be cleaned that way and avoid damaging the rest. In addition, tanking an assembled (even partly) engine will be a complete mess of nasty oozing chemical,partially dissolved gunk and general nastiness that you'll regret.

Ggmac · 01-18-2022, 08:03 PM

What is the difference between 34, 35 ,and 36 ? I thought they were the same .

Tinker · 01-18-2022, 08:18 PM

Tried to upload Fred Mills evolution of the flathead. It's a PDF and may be to large? 3.8mb. Great details of the early fords only a few corrections. Guess I could email it to someone.

36 had cam bearings. 36LB no babbit.

01-18-2022, 02:03 AM	#2
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,303	Re: Speaking of engines Looks like it will pass the "Pencil Test". Have you measured the bore?

01-18-2022, 02:10 AM	#4
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,303	Re: Speaking of engines I'm just an "8BA Guy", but don't the trapezoidal water passages mean something good?

01-18-2022, 02:37 AM	#5
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,301	Re: Speaking of engines Its clearly a 21 stud. 36 and earlier. If it was '38 it would have the water pumps in the block.Pull the intake and see if its a vented block.If so it might be an LB. Last edited by deuce lover; 01-18-2022 at 02:44 AM.

01-18-2022, 02:43 AM	#6
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,106	Re: Speaking of engines Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) . That's a 21-stud, with the noticeable LACK of water pumps. Gotta be a '36 or earlier engine. DD OOPS: Late by a hair! . __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

01-18-2022, 01:51 PM	#7
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,062	Re: Speaking of engines My best seat of the pants guess is that it is a 36 engine. It appears to have steel pistons and if I'm correct, they were introduced in 36. As long as the block is good - would be a good engine to build! Best of luck . . .

01-18-2022, 02:20 PM	#10
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,163	Re: Speaking of engines WTH is the pencil test __________________ Nomad

01-18-2022, 02:23 PM	#11
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: Speaking of engines If it is a poured Babbitt engine hot tanking it will damage the Babbitt

01-18-2022, 03:55 PM	#13
Ggmac Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Lake worth Florida Posts: 1,088	Re: Speaking of engines 21 stud , my lb has the same 15a casting . Not sure if that is positive proof but it could be .

01-18-2022, 05:30 PM	#14
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,508	Re: Speaking of engines Just pull the pan and a main. Lots of changes occurred when rebuilders used what new parts they had on hand.

01-18-2022, 06:18 PM	#15
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,567	Re: Speaking of engines Is there a vent on the bottom, front of the oil pan? (pre 35 no vent), and If you can see a part number on the front water outlets, that may put a year on them anyway Last edited by cas3; 01-18-2022 at 06:19 PM. Reason: add

01-18-2022, 06:29 PM	#16
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,497	Re: Speaking of engines Main bearing journal diameter will narrow down the year.

01-18-2022, 06:57 PM	#17
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,829	Re: Speaking of engines Those front water outlets are 35 __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

01-18-2022, 07:16 PM	#18
cadillac512 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Kansas Posts: 920	Re: Speaking of engines Please don't hot tank the engine assembled. Take it completely apart and tank what parts need to be cleaned that way and avoid damaging the rest. In addition, tanking an assembled (even partly) engine will be a complete mess of nasty oozing chemical,partially dissolved gunk and general nastiness that you'll regret. __________________ "It don't take but country smarts to solve the problem" (Smokey Yunick) '41 Merc Town Sedan / 260" 8CM engine '66 Fairlane four door / "warmed up" 302

01-18-2022, 08:03 PM	#19
Ggmac Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Lake worth Florida Posts: 1,088	Re: Speaking of engines What is the difference between 34, 35 ,and 36 ? I thought they were the same .

01-18-2022, 08:18 PM	#20
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Speaking of engines Tried to upload Fred Mills evolution of the flathead. It's a PDF and may be to large? 3.8mb. Great details of the early fords only a few corrections. Guess I could email it to someone. 36 had cam bearings. 36LB no babbit.