Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Maybe they wear anti-gravity boots that work the opposite way "down under"

Nah, it's magnetic soles on the boots that does it. That's why we have sooo much iron ore - without it, we'd all fall your way.

[updraught]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Synchro, the problem as I see it for you guys in Australia, is you are upside down in the world so the grease runs out of the top of the gearbox

Penrite is made here so it will run out the top of your steering box, not ours, so keep that in mind.
Can't everything be fixed by mixing in 90% STP? The 10% left is because STP is not a lube of course.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Naturally the Champion grease isn't available around here, gotta special-order it. That was the main attraction of the Super S grease for me.

We kinda went off topic here with the 600W viscosity, so let me ask this again, ...with the ones who use grease, how is/are the sector bushings getting lubricated?

[updraught]

Depends where the hole is that feeds the bearings I guess if it runs into it.

"Corn head grease is a polyurea thickened, soft NLGI 0
grade lubricating grease. A hybrid between a fluid gear lubricant and lubricating grease, it functions as a robust gear lubricant when meshed in the interface between two gear sets, such as those in a John Deere combine corn head gear case. However, because it is grease rather than a fluid gear lubricant, it stays in the gear case even when a worn seal would cause a traditional fluid lubricant to leak. This grease property is described as being thixotropic, meaning the grease softens and flows when sheared, then thickens back to its normal consistency to provide a leak proof sealing barrier when the equipment is not running. Corn head grease contains all the necessary additives to resist wear and corrosion"

A bit of a health warning:
"Polyureas can also be formed by the reaction of isocyanates and water to form a carbamic acid intermediate. This acid quickly decomposes by splitting off carbon dioxide and leaving behind a complex amine. This amine then reacts with another isocyanate group to form the polyurea linkage. This two- step reaction is used in what is commonly called polyurea/urethane foam formation. The reactivity of isocyanates makes them harmful to living tissue. They are toxic and are known to cause asthma in humans, both through inhalation exposure and dermal contact. Precaution should always be taken when handling them. Exposure to diisocyanates can cause different medical conditions. Most common are respiratory problems such as a runny nose, coughing or nose bleed. In the case of the amines, it is difficult to be specific since there are many different types involved. Many of them are, however, quite nasty materials. Aromatic and structurally similar amines comprise one of the major groups of carcinogens known to man."
https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/51548...tePaper-14.pdf

[KenBolton]

To muddy the waters a bit more; what about using STP or a mix of 600 in the steering box? This from a discussion over on the Flathead site.

[rotorwrench]

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The W in oil grades has nothing to do with weight. It's just an abbreviation for winter which was a quick way of giving winter viscosity versus normal temperature viscosity. A person can see from the previously posted chart that gear lube oils and engine lube oils are graded differently. The viscosity test is different between the two types.

The Society of Automotive Engineers was formed in 1905 with Henry Ford as one of the founding members. Lubricating oils were not the first consideration for SAE standards since many things in materials and fasteners had to be hashed out in order to set some real usable standards. Castor oil was used for engine oils for some time in aviation and likely for automotive use as well. The steam cylinder lubricants predated the SAE by nearly forty years so 600 was not part of the SAE grading system but it was still in wide use as a heavy lubricating oil as late as the early 1930s. The use of SAE lubricants replaced the 600 in the early V8 era for steering gears and rear axles, transmissions, etc.

The thixotropic greases like John Deere corn header gearbox grease are a type of grease that will flow with movement but remain static with no movement. These types would be the only grease like substance that would be usable in a steering gearbox. Getting them out for changing of lubricant would be problematic but most folks don't change the oil in a steering gear anyway since most don't have a drain plug. The lubricant level would have to be such that all internal bearing surfaces will be subjected to lubrication or it won't be effective. It's usually problematic if the box is overfilled.

[Licensed to kill]

Personally, I run CHG in my steering gears and should the bushings prematurely fail, I will change them and switch to oil. Not a big deal. I reality, corn head grease would likely work perfect in the transmission as well and likely shift a lot better. I ended up with CHG in my tranny because i put it in the U-joint and over filled it pushing it into the trans. I changed the oil in the trans (it was WAY overfull) but rally should have just lowered the level and let 'er buck. Corn head grease in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zNhli-J0Gk

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by KenBolton

To muddy the waters a bit more; what about using STP or a mix of 600 in the steering box? This from a discussion over on the Flathead site.

Nothing at all Ken, ...this was the way it was typically done back in the 60s & 70s when Model-A club members used to blend their favorite wheel bearing grease, STP, and a little 90 weight gear lube to just the right consistency. Almost like bragging rights.

I can clearly remember one time when several guys in the Houston Model-A club brought their own preferred "mix" to a club meeting (-I'm guessing in the late 1960s) and gosh did it stink the room up when they started Show & Tell. One 'sample' was brought to the meeting in an old glass mayonnaise jar. I know because it was my job to hold it while riding to & from the club meeting!

[Mister Moose]

Originally Posted by updraught

"Corn head grease is a polyurea thickened, soft NLGI 0
grade lubricating grease. A hybrid between a fluid gear lubricant and lubricating grease, it functions as a robust gear lubricant when meshed in the interface between two gear sets, such as those in a John Deere combine corn head gear case. However, because it is grease rather than a fluid gear lubricant, it stays in the gear case even when a worn seal would cause a traditional fluid lubricant to leak. This grease property is described as being thixotropic, meaning the grease softens and flows when sheared, then thickens back to its normal consistency to provide a leak proof sealing barrier when the equipment is not running. Corn head grease contains all the necessary additives to resist wear and corrosion"

If it only flows between gear teeth when meshed and then solidifies, it will never flow to the sector housing, correct?

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

We kinda went off topic here with the 600W viscosity, so let me ask this again, ...with the ones who use grease, how is/are the sector bushings getting lubricated?

My plan was to use the fitting pictured below – unscrew it and see if anything comes out, and then if not, pour in a bit of heated 00 grease. That fitting is aligned with the channel in the bushing for mine as of when I had it rebuilt a year ago.

[henry's 31]

Hi Brent:


As always, great explanation that makes a lot of sense to me.


Thanks for sharing.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The W in oil grades has nothing to do with weight. It's just an abbreviation for winter which was a quick way of giving winter viscosity versus normal temperature viscosity. A person can see from the previously posted chart that gear lube oils and engine lube oils are graded differently. The viscosity test is different between the two types.

You may be correct on the "W" being the abbreviation for "winter". But originally the abbreviation "wt." was used in this discussion. Wt. is the abbreviation for weight.

Then someone brings up "600W is a designation not the weight." So what does that "W" stand for in this case? It gets pretty confusing when we are not even referring to the same thing.

I can only assume my sector shaft is getting lubed as I am getting a small amount of fluid on the inside of my frame rail and engine pan. Since using the sector "O" ring and washer, along with the Penrite Steering Box "Fluid", nothing shows on the outside of the frame rail. That I can live with.

[Ranchero50]

I've been through Mobil's industrial maintenance training a couple times. According to them the difference between grease and oils is that the grease is just oil with a "body" additive so it doesn't run off. The problem with greases in gear applications is that the oil will separate out of the "body", then evaporate / leak and you'll end up with plenty of dry clay like material but minimal lubricating oil.

Per my 7 tooth gearbox I chose to mix grease and 140 gear oil and fill it from the side before putting the cover on. I also used the light rod tube and O ring for the sector gear shaft to help minimize leaks. My gearbox steering shaft also had a good bit of axial movement the went away once I removed the gaskets and sealed it with some good RTV. I chose the mix because the body in the grease would keep the oil suspended better than the grease or oil alone. 6 months without a leak so I'm happy.

[rotorwrench]

Originally Posted by Ruth

You are correct on the "W" being the abbreviation for "winter". But originally the abbreviation "wt." was used in this discussion. Wt. is the abbreviation for weight.

Then someone brings up "600W is a designation not the weight." So what does that "W" stand for in this case? It gets pretty confusing when we are not even referring to the same thing.

WT was also an abbreviation for winter that was used by some companies but is no longer in use for the most part due to confusion.

Steam cylinder oil has always had the 600 designation since Vacuum Oil Co first developed the Gargoyle 600. The W added just means that it meets the specifications of the 600 designation in cold weather. Steam engines function with super heated steam that leaves its water behind during the expansion process in the engine. Hot water has a tendency to wash oil off rather quickly so the 600 designation was blended to be able to cling even when wet. Tallow was used in those early years but modern tacifiers are used in the modern era. Here is a product spec sheet for Mobil 600W:
https://petroleumservicecompany.com/...EROILS_PDS.pdf

A person can compare the ISO viscosity index with the ones in the previous charts and see where the index falls within the SAE/ASTM viscosity index points.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Ranchero50

The problem with greases in gear applications is that the oil will separate out of the "body", then evaporate / leak and you'll end up with plenty of dry clay like material but minimal lubricating oil.

Lubriplate brand grease is bad for separating, it even separates when sitting in a container.

[Patrick L.]

I wrote a college paper on oils back in the days of antiquity.

Its my understanding that with the discovery on multi-weight oils the 'W' was the number of the fluidity weight/flow rate of cold oil and the second number was the film strength. 10W-30 flows like 10 weight when cold with the film strength always of 30 weight.

[rotorwrench]

Greases are just soaps of various types that hold oil in situ. Some soaps hold oil better than others.

Not all methods of viscosity measurement use gravity under ASTM D445. Even then, it is the measure of flow or resistance to movement that is important. Weight really doesn't mean much unless specific gravity is drastically different. Folks got used to the term weight way back there when the W in the mix was not that well understood.

[duke36]

I've had the corn head separate and liquefy in the 2 tooth steering box, tending to leak more than expected. Switched over to modern 1500wt lube in the steering and rear end.. Also, the box has a lube fitting for (non lithium) grease in the sector shaft similar to post 30 to lubricate the bronze bushings.

[Aarongriffey]

Since CV joints are known to last up to 300 thousand miles and take a lot more of a beating than a steering box I have been packing model T and model A universal joints, and steering boxes, with CV joint grease.
I also use it in non power steering rack & pinion steering units.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I wrote a college paper on oils back in the days of antiquity.

Its my understanding that with the discovery on multi-weight oils the 'W' was the number of the fluidity weight/flow rate of cold oil and the second number was the film strength. 10W-30 flows like 10 weight when cold with the film strength always of 30 weight.

NOT "weight"! It's "Winter"! In the early days of the automobile, oil viscosity was tested and rated as SAE10, 20, 30, etc. As oils improved, oil companies were able to produce oils that flowed better when cold (like at 0 deg.) but kept their viscosity when hot. Thus, SAE 20W flowed better in the Winter than a straight 20 but did not thin out any more when hot (maintained its SAE 20 rating).