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Old 05-14-2021, 04:26 PM   #1
Gufshoz
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Default Starting issues when warm

Hey friends. I have searched the threads and thought I found the discussion, but I can't find it again.
I have an ongoing issue with my starter when the engine has been running at normal operating temperatures. I never have an issue with starting a cold engine, but when the car is warm, she really cranks slowly. Sometime I wonder if she's going to fire. This is not a vapor lock or fuel problem, but it is with the starter. It only happens when I turn the car off for less than about 10 minutes: like, when refueling. After sitting for a while she cranks fine.

I read somewhere that it could be an overheating starter (?) or too small of a ground cable. I have ordered a ground strap to replace the cable, but I hate to start throwing things at her and hoping something sticks.
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Old 05-14-2021, 06:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

Next time it does that, try turning the engine by hand with the crank. If it’s still tight you may have tight pistons and/or rings. That was my trouble with a new engine.
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Old 05-14-2021, 07:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

By pass everything and connect from the battery post to the starter switch and the positive post to the engine using heavy duty, 6 volt , jumper cables. Those cables can really fool you. Good luck.
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Old 05-14-2021, 08:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

700:
My engine has several thousand miles on it and compression of 55 lbs. in all cylinders, so I doubt if tight rings and pistons is the problem.
Thanks for the reply.
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Old 05-14-2021, 09:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

My bet is you have a bad ground or possibly a starter that has an issue. Make sure your ground is clean at the frame and as Jackson said you can use a heavy jumper cable to help and see if that helps. It may be the starter as well. If you have access to another it’s worth a try .
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gufshoz View Post
700:
My engine has several thousand miles on it and compression of 55 lbs. in all cylinders, so I doubt if tight rings and pistons is the problem.
Thanks for the reply.
OK. Scratch that suggestion.
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:35 PM   #7
Chuck Sea/Tac
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

Check voltage drops across the cables/connections. They may look good, but be bad. To me it sounds like a bad starter.
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Old 05-15-2021, 12:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

It also sounds to me like a bad grd connection somewhere, small wire size or bad starter.
I'm one that likes a second #1 or #0 grd lead.
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

Two things: Before you throw money at the car do some analysis. Follow 700RPM's advice and try cranking by hand when hot. Then test the voltage drop at different places like at the starter switch. You don't have to run the ignition on, just push down on the starter switch while you measure the voltage at the starter. Do the same from the ground lug on the battery to a good engine ground location.
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Old 05-28-2021, 03:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

A friend of mine has a spare starter and I put in my car, today. I had already replaced the ground strap and changed it’s position from a bolt on the bell housing to the proper hole on the frame and put in a 00 negative wire to the starter. The heavier wiring didn’t do the trick, but when I replaced the starter I thought I was using a 12 volt battery because she spun so fast. Now I think it’s time to rebuild my starter and I want to ask how difficult of a job is that? I can exchange mine for a rebuilt for about $220 + shipping. Suggestions?
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Old 05-28-2021, 07:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

It is not hard to rebuild the starter. Mostly it is cleaning it up and replacing the brushes. You will have to clean the commutator. Start by using a solvent like WD-40 and a rag. If not smooth you can use a file while spinning the armature in a lathe or use a cutting bit in the lathe. I have used fine grit sand paper to clean them up by hand. No need to clean out the grooves in the commutator on a starter. You will need a good soldering iron to change the brushes that go to the field windings. You may have to replace the insulators here and there. Use an ohm meter to check things out and search for ground faults. There are books on how to rebuild starters and I would recommend getting one. The MODEL A MECHANICS HANDBOOK VOLUME 1 has a good section on how to rebuild a starter. It is $36 but you will find that you will use it for all the work you do on your car.
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Old 05-28-2021, 07:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

While your friend's starter spins like 12 Volt, you haven't mentioned if it solved the hard starting problem when the engine is warm. If it did, that's great and YES, your starter needs some attention. As to whether you can give it the attention it needs yourself ?????????? Just as most responders pointed out that your cables might be the cause of "hard starting while warm", your starter may have more issues than cleaning the commutator and replacing brushes. I assume your $220 rebuild is from a reputable auto electric rebuilding shop (or Model A parts supplier). In either case, a reputable rebuilder will do the job. This should involve testing of components before the installation of new parts. These tests are crucial to the success of the rebuild. The armature and commutator are tested on a "growler" for shorts, breaks in continuity, etc. If you don't have access to such a tool & knowledge of how to use it (or any test equipment that might be used instead of a growler), it's time for a professional to take over. Field windings can be tested with a good ohmmeter. Even that requires knowing how to test for problems that might occur under load. If these components check out OK, the rebuilder needs to know what else to check that might cause the poor starting when warm scenario. If your capabilities and tool supply meet these criteria, go for it. If not, the $220 is probably money well spent.

Good luck. Bob Bader
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Old 05-28-2021, 10:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

Thanks for the response, nkaminar and bobbader. I think I’ll go the route of exchanging for a rebuilt. With the summer cruising season upon us, I’d like to feel confident in my parts. We’re looking at a couple of long cruises and I don’t want to always be looking for a downhill parking spot.
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

Was your friend's starter a stock Model A starter? Or?
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Old 05-30-2021, 09:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

katy- yes, it is a stock, ‘29.
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Old 05-30-2021, 02:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: Starting issues when warm

Good move. Un soldering and resoldering two of the brushes requires a heavy duty soldering iron.
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