Little hard to Start today

[Model A Ron]

My car has not been used much in the past few years but it always started very easy for me. Since I got it I have put on about 300 miles in the past month or so. The glass fuel bowl had very little in it when I got the car and when I looked just now it had at least 1/16" of crud in it.

Just today I found it a little harder to start and it required a bit more gas on the fuel lever to get her started. Then I found it stalling when I came to a stop and had to increase the idle to keep it from stalling. Is this related to the fuel filter or should I check additional areas? Thanks for all the comments.

Ron

[nkaminar]

You mentioned a fuel filter. If you have an in-line aftermarket fuel filter it may be clogged and needs to be replaced.

Another thought is that the gas could be old and starting to produce tar that will clog the jets in the carburetor. Try some new gas.

It could also be that the car needs a tuneup. Adjust the points, clean the plugs, etc.

If all that fails you may have to take the carburetor apart and clean it out.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

You mentioned a fuel filter. If you have an in-line aftermarket fuel filter it may be clogged and needs to be replaced.

Another thought is that the gas could be old and starting to produce tar that will clog the jets in the carburetor. Try some new gas.

It could also be that the car needs a tuneup. Adjust the points, clean the plugs, etc.

If all that fails you may have to take the carburetor apart and clean it out.

I have the glass bowl with a filter inside on the firewall. I have ran over 20 gallons in the past month so the fuel should not be old but it may be bad from the gas station. Just ordered a new fuel filter and a set of points so I will look at the plugs and see what kind of shape they are in. It very well may be the jets but I am sure a tune up could not hurt at this point. Never have taken apart a Model A carb but I just may get the chance if everything else fails.

Thanks for the comments.
Ron

[McMimmcs]

I think I’d be looking at the crud factor first and clean out the gas tank! Wayne

[nkaminar]

OK, so by new filter, I assume you mean the screen that is in the bowel. Depending on the model of carburetor, there may also be a screen at the end of the carb that is removed by a bolt. The carburetor is simple and can be cleaned with some spray carburetor cleaner and compressed air. Look for any loose parts and carefully tighten if found. There may be no need to take the carb completely apart. When reassembly use new gaskets and check for any vacuum leaks. Ask for help from a club member.

Do the tune up first. That may be all you need. The old points are probably OK, just need adjusting to 0.018 to 0.022. Set the plugs at .035. Check the condenser with an ohm meter. It should not be shorted and should charge up when the meter is on the resistance setting, showing low resistance at first then high resistance. Reverse the leads to test again.

I am in the Southwest on vacation, but if you are still having problems when I get home to Wilkesboro, I will drive down to help.

[Model A Ron]

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Originally Posted by nkaminar

OK, so by new filter, I assume you mean the screen that is in the bowel. Depending on the model of carburetor, there may also be a screen at the end of the carb that is removed by a bolt. The carburetor is simple and can be cleaned with some spray carburetor cleaner and compressed air. Look for any loose parts and carefully tighten if found. There may be no need to take the carb completely apart. When reassembly use new gaskets and check for any vacuum leaks. Ask for help from a club member.

Do the tune up first. That may be all you need. The old points are probably OK, just need adjusting to 0.018 to 0.022. Set the plugs at .035. Check the condenser with an ohm meter. It should not be shorted and should charge up when the meter is on the resistance setting, showing low resistance at first then high resistance. Reverse the leads to test again.

I am in the Southwest on vacation, but if you are still having problems when I get home to Wilkesboro, I will drive down to help.

Thank you. This information is very useful for someone like me who just got a Model A. I think you got me in the right direction and hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Ron

[Jacksonlll]

Make sure those four manifold nuts are tight, and the carb attachment screws too. An intake air leak can cause your problem.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Jacksonlll

Make sure those four manifold nuts are tight, and the carb attachment screws too. An intake air leak can cause your problem.

I will be sure to look this afternoon. Thank you.

Ron

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Wow, it sure seems like we all are throwing 'diagnostic darts' at this.



So if I understand this correctly, you have owned this car for a month, -driven it 300 miles, ...and each time you attempted to start the engine, it started right up. Then, just once it was a tad harder to start but it did start ...and now folks are suggesting things just short of rebuilding the engine. That is my suggestion then, -you should rebuild the engine!!

Seriously, I would not do anything until you know there is a problem. Start & drive it for a few more days to understand and diagnose what really is happening. It may not be anything at all.


Second, define what 'crud' is. Is it dried gasoline that is becoming dissolved? Is it gas tank sealer that is breaking down?? Is it rust sediment??? Is it rust flakes???? Each of those would need to be abated in a different way.
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[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Wow, it sure seems like we all are throwing 'diagnostic darts' at this.



So if I understand this correctly, you have owned this car for a month, -driven it 300 miles, ...and each time you attempted to start the engine, it started right up. Then, just once it was a tad harder to start but it did start ...and now folks are suggesting things just short of rebuilding the engine. That is my suggestion then, -you should rebuild the engine!!

Seriously, I would not do anything until you know there is a problem. Start & drive it for a few more days to understand and diagnose what really is happening. It may not be anything at all.


Second, define what 'crud' is. Is it dried gasoline that is becoming dissolved? Is it gas tank sealer that is breaking down?? Is it rust sediment??? Is it rust flakes???? Each of those would need to be abated in a different way.
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Thanks Brent
I got the car a few months back but have been putting on some miles since I fixed the steering. I do not feel this is anything major but the car did start very easy prior to the other day. The engine sounds fine but it's a little harder to start and required a faster idle to keep from stalling. What's your thought on starting with cleaning the glass bowl out and replacing the Wix 33039 filter? If I do this I can get the material out and see what it is. The sediment does not appear to be rust flakes as it's black.

Ron

[Garwood]

When I first got my truck, it wouldn't start but it did when I bought it. I removed the shut off valve and there was some bits and pieces stuck in the valve so it was staving for fuel. So you can look at that as well. Unfortunately all the gas will need to be drained so I would do that last.

[Big hammer]

With my glass sediment bowl filter the fuel inters through the center of the filter and out from the outside through a brass screen. So the only way to know if the filter is contaminated is to remove it and see. It sounds like the filter is doing its job time to replace it. With mine it was rust particles so I removed the paper filter. The fuel flow into and then drops the particles on the bottom, I've only had to clean it out twice. With yours having black crud on the bottom it's time for preventive maintenance replace the filter and then................go for a nice drive, enjoy!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

Thanks Brent
I got the car a few months back but have been putting on some miles since I fixed the steering. I do not feel this is anything major but the car did start very easy prior to the other day. The engine sounds fine but it's a little harder to start and required a faster idle to keep from stalling. What's your thought on starting with cleaning the glass bowl out and replacing the Wix 33039 filter? If I do this I can get the material out and see what it is. The sediment does not appear to be rust flakes as it's black.

Ron

Let me start by saying that I am NOT saying I am right and everyone else is wrong. What I am saying is lets slow down and think about this a bit.

To begin with, even if there is a partial fuel flow restriction, it will still fill the carburetor bowl prior to starting. Generally speaking, an engine will start & run a minute or two at an 'above idle' speed just using the fuel in the bowl. And, ...since the engine did start (-albeit just not as fast as normal) the fuel is getting to the carburetor. Now if there were a fuel restriction, in all likelihood this issue will show up when you are driving at speed. You have not indicated this has happened yet.

With regard to installing a Wix filter, my first suggestion is inspect the upper screen in the Sediment Bulb to make sure it is clean. If it isn't, then start there. Use the Wix filter as a last resort. By you suggesting Black flakes, my intuition is that is dried gasoline (varnish) has is being dissolved by the new fuel. I would just monitor it and see if it gets worse, -or just clears up before I started changing things.


You are not the only one guilty of this, but it definitely bears reminding how these cars are primitive when compared to modern vehicles. A modern engine has an ECM that takes samples of oxygen levels in the exhaust and adjusts for optimum fuel mixtures, and they sense optimum timing for the conditions based off of the load of the engine, and they have the ability to determine correct cold start fuel enrichment based on present weather conditions. In a Model-A, that ECM is your brain.

In the case of your Model-A, there are so many factors that could have changed slightly which affected the engine start-up. The temperature could be a tad different -or even the humidity that would cause a normal start procedure to create a slight rich, -or slight lean condition. Maybe the fuel bowl level was different this time due not having enough time to refill. Maybe the engine thermally evaporated some fuel from the carb that required a couple more seconds to replenish, -or maybe when you climbed into the car, you rocked the car where fuel splashed and cause the fuel mixture to be a tad rich. Again, many things could factor in, so don't be too quick to assume something is wrong.

[Model A Ron]

Brent
I agree with you and your right......it's time to slow down. I am going to clean the bowl out and go from there. Jim told me the car was in storage down in Florida prior to him bringing it up to Georgia. I just recently started driving it just about every day and I have fueled it multiple times. Dried gas sounds very logical to me. The local Model A club is going to an event on Saturday and that's about 25 miles each way. I plan on going and just keep an eye on things.

Thanks
Ron

[Oldgearz]

Kind of sounds like a crud problem in carb. Take fuel line off at carb and with gas valve open see if the gas is flowing freely from the sediment bowl. Should be a good healthy flow. If not, check the screen. Shut off fuel valve and when gas has drained from the line, reconnect at carb. Take line off at sediment bowl and spray carb cleaner into the line until it is full, then reconnect line to sediment bowl. Open fuel valve. Put a health spray of the carb cleaner into the gas tank. Try to start car and hope for the best! This is what I do with all kind of engines that sit idle idle for 1/2 a year or so. This generally works if crude buildup is causing limited gas flow through carb.

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by Oldgearz

Kind of sounds like a crud problem in carb. Take fuel line off at carb and with gas valve open see if the gas is flowing freely from the sediment bowl. Should be a good healthy flow. If not, check the screen. Shut off fuel valve and when gas has drained from the line, reconnect at carb. Take line off at sediment bowl and spray carb cleaner into the line until it is full, then reconnect line to sediment bowl. Open fuel valve. Put a health spray of the carb cleaner into the gas tank. Try to start car and hope for the best! This is what I do with all kind of engines that sit idle idle for 1/2 a year or so. This generally works if crude buildup is causing limited gas flow through carb.

Back to my post #4. Clean the gas tank or nothing else matters. tuneup doesn’t cure crud in the gas tank and neither does a carb kit. Start simple. Wayne

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by McMimmcs

Back to my post #4. Clean the gas tank or nothing else matters. tuneup doesn’t cure crud in the gas tank and neither does a carb kit. Start simple. Wayne

What is the best way to clean the gas tank without taking it out of the car?

[Jacksonlll]

You can get the big chunks out by flushing the tank like we did in this video. It worked until he removed the tank for painting, then he had it cleaned and coated. Good luck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlRp...cz4R0&index=24

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by McMimmcs

Back to my post #4. Clean the gas tank or nothing else matters. tuneup doesn’t cure crud in the gas tank and neither does a carb kit. Start simple. Wayne

Wayne is the clear Winner lol

The filter had lots of fine black crud. I took off the carb and it was packed with fine black crud. Surprised it ran as good as it did with all that junk. Time to go drain the tank and see what I have in there......my guess is more black crud.

Ron

[woofa.express]

All mine start well however shortly after start and sitting idle for a short period the rpm slows then abruptly returns to normal. I suspect carburettor ice. Generally in temps of 5c to 20c.
Am I Robinson Crusoe?
The c is for metric temperature measurement and does not pertain to currency.