|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
05-12-2019, 06:35 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,052
|
Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Just received a pair of new Navarro castings for a member's build up here (Joe V.)
Gave us a chance to evaluate the Navarro's over the others. We've generally preferred either the Edelbrocks or the Offy's for our own builds here, this is based on all our past experiences. Not even sure where to really begin but here's where we're at presently. Joe has also been apprised of our findings so far! Initially when we unpacked the heads we noticed some small "dings" on some of the surfaces from shipping, one specifically where the "fire-ring" on the head gasket would be resting! The castings themselves are "decent", minimal porosity, nothing substantial or noticeable. From this point on it's mostly downhill though?? The machining is downright horrible, especially considering it's ALL CNC'd, including the chambers. First item we found is the "finish" on the registers for the head bolt/stud washers. Each head also has varying measurements for the heights from the head surface to the register tops. Entirely unacceptible here, but is easily repairable. The only "good" machined surfaces are the thermostat hsg areas! The bottom surfaces on both heads needs to be addressed. One was machined with a "blade" the other appears to have been done on a belt-sander? Next are the camber volumes, they are advertised as 75/76 cc's (they are referred to as "blower-heads") when they're actually closer to 81. This is a fairly easy fix simply by milling! The valve pocket sections are machined deep enough to make .500" lift at the valve, way too much, they should have left more material (about .100") making the chambers thicker/stronger? The photo's below show some of what I posted here. They show many of the "dimensions" we don't feel too comfortable about! One specifically in the valve chamber area where it is only about .250" thick, the Offy's are over .650" in the same section. There are 5 or so water holes in each head not lining up correctly with their respective holes in the head gaskets. These will have to be modified. Many of these "issues" we will address here, however, some we have no control over and will end up being used "as-is" if Joe decides to use them at all. Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. All-in-all we would not choose these heads for any builds here where we were calling the shots, if a customer still chooses to go with them he will have been forewarned of our take on them! We'll stay with either the Offy's or the Edelbrock's for now! (Heard S.) If you're reading along here no word as of last week on the Edelbrocks yet?? Thank God you didn't choose these Navarros? In the bottom photo here we machined the bolt registers towards the bottom of the photo, all 6 (5 short and the 1 long) of the top ones pictured were as we rec'd them.
__________________
http://www.stromberg-bulletin.com/me...berg-equipped/ Last edited by GOSFAST; 05-12-2019 at 11:27 AM. Reason: C |
05-12-2019, 07:18 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: shirley ny
Posts: 992
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
thanks for the info, im running offys on mine no problem
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
05-12-2019, 07:45 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,860
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
I wonder who's making them now??
|
05-12-2019, 08:53 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,942
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
THANK YOU GOSFAST for doing that homework. Maybe they are hoping to sell their heads to folks who really just open the box and bolt them on expecting that they are
up to specs. and very high quality. Pretty sad considering the cost of heads these days. |
05-12-2019, 08:54 AM | #5 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,019
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Yikes......Barney is NOT happy
Charlie ny |
05-12-2019, 09:34 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: ohio
Posts: 986
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
05-12-2019, 09:42 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,431
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Barney cast both finished and unfinished heads so that they could be modified per customer request. After Barney's passing, his product is no longer under his guidance, He will truely be missed in the flathead community.
|
05-12-2019, 09:44 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 854
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Makes you wonder what is going through the heads of whoever is making them and selling them. What happened to pride in one's work?
|
05-12-2019, 09:54 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 3,505
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
VERY disappointed with the findings. Did you depend on a single head gasket choice or were others used to confirm your findings?
|
05-12-2019, 10:12 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,316
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Before I joined the "Barn", I was one of those that had confidence in the head manufacturers and thought you could just "bolt 'em on and go". I have learned a lot since then and carefully check just about everything before using a set. This applies equally to new heads as well as used. Both sets of Edmunds I bought used had to be milled to bring them down to .045-.050" squish. All four heads required a different amount to be removed and a couple of hours work with a die grinder afterwards. Special thanks to "Ol' Ron" for putting me on to this.
|
05-12-2019, 10:23 AM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,425
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Quote:
|
|
05-12-2019, 11:26 AM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,052
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Quote:
Just to add and be fair, the water hole misalignment is of little consequence to us using the heads, as I stated above, the 1/4" nominal "thickness" in the valve pocket area is a major concern! I say this because over the years I have had 2 Edelbrock's (different builds) experience cracks in the chambers and these are much thicker in this area! It's kind of ironic because one happened to be on a "blown" Flattie also, had a Magnuson-144 (B&M) blower on it! (Add) The quality (or lack of it) was first apparent when I saw how they wrapped/shipped these heads, we would never even consider shipping used old heads like they did these new ones! Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. Haven't spoke with Joe since he spoke with the vendor but I'm not buying into their explanation to him, sounds like pure BS to me! First off they don't even list an 80 cc head??
__________________
http://www.stromberg-bulletin.com/me...berg-equipped/ Last edited by GOSFAST; 05-12-2019 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Add |
|
05-12-2019, 01:04 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,942
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
It would be interesting to see how those heads are machined after casting.
Quality control seems lacking. |
05-12-2019, 02:57 PM | #14 |
Member Emeritus
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia
Posts: 2,204
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
When I was testing heads for my book a friend, with ties to the new Navarro owners, had a set shipped to me. They were as near perfect as any could be. Only one problem---they were both for the same bank of an 8BA. So, I eventually got 2 heads for the other side and, again, both sets are perfect. The only objectionable area was in the dome not matching either a stock Ford piston contour nor the racing pistons I was using.
I am now wondering if the heads I received were from the original machine shop? |
05-12-2019, 05:30 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,179
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
John:
It's possible. Do you recall what time frame that was? I got my set directly from Barney in the early '00's. He was still in business, I think, until sometime around 2008's?? I don't know exactly when the present owner's took over. Last edited by Tim Ayers; 05-13-2019 at 07:58 AM. |
05-12-2019, 05:32 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 195
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
In 1961 I bought a set a Sharp heads from Al,s speed shop in Aurora Il. I Never used them yet I Hope they are OK now after reading this. They are for the 59A motor.
|
05-12-2019, 07:36 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: faucett, mo
Posts: 419
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
I really appreciate hearing this information as I thought the Navarro heads would be a nice addition. Thanks for your time on this.
|
05-12-2019, 07:53 PM | #18 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 26
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
I have a set of those heads that the casting for hoses were so bad that we had to machine them so when you clamp the hoses they would not slide off.
|
05-12-2019, 10:17 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: charlottesville, Va.
Posts: 589
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
H and H Flathead is selling them now. I got a set for a AB build for a customer. I had to machine the water outlets to keep the hoses on. As casted the hoses would have come off. Had to spot face the seats for the head nuts . The chambers were close but the machining was not great.
|
05-13-2019, 07:20 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,871
|
Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Thank goodness I got the "Nostalgia" heads for the 59L block from Barney and Donna on a visit to his shop several years before he passed away. The entire process from casting to machining is impeccable, and that's with a former machinist's eye for perfection.
|
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|