Canada 21 stud flatheds VS USA 21 stud?

[G32]

Hey i'm from OKlahoma --don't know about Northern Flatheads:
but curious. I have flown over Canada to Alaska tho. Air Guard.
Noted Robert Dip's green 37/38 21 stud on 59 thread with " raised"
intake surface.
Were prewar 21 stud Canada Blocks/Parts cast marked Canada?
Hoe different than lower 48?

Gene Tulsa

[Brian]

Gene, I think this is a timely thread, with the other recent thread about i.ding flathead blocks year by year bringing out so much variation, and being added to continually.
The Canadians certainly did a few things differently, but Robert Dip's raised intake 37 block is unusual even for Canada! I have a Canadian 37-38 block without the whelch plugs in the pan rails which is also an oddity....nothing in Fordland is ever gospel.
However, I think the major pre war difference between the two sources is that from the introduction of the LB block [in late 35-36?], ALL Canadian blocks have featured a 5/8" dia hole at front of block, in pan rail, on pass side [US], which readily identifies the engine as having shell main bearings, actually, there is another 5/8" hole present at rear of pan rail also, in front of oil pump, but one needs to remove oil pan to observe this.
No Canadian blox had numbers cast into them until 38.
I have 38, 24 stud blox with no numbers, these blocks share the same crankshaft etc, as the earlier 21 stud stuff , but also have 38 blox with 81A cast into them, which have 24 studs, the bigger main bearing journals, the later crankshaft with the longer snout and are still 221. Likewise, all 39 Ford motors have the number 91A cast, the Merc's 99A. All pre war Canadian Flatties from 36 on, at least, would appear to differ.

[52merc]

well put mate

[Phil Gillespie]

I have a reported USA 36 21 stud engine in a 34 coupe.
So with nil noted tele tail holes as per Canadian blocks the only way to actually verify this is a 36 LB would be internal inspection?
ie brg cap comparison or similar.
Am I correct with this assumption
Phil
NZ

[Brian]

Unfortunately you are correct; there is no 'quick and easy way' to verify it's an LB block as it of US origin, unlike that easy method of identifying Canadian LB's.

[G32]

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Thanks all...New Zealand!!
Have you guys met Burt Munroe? Wow!
OK Canada?? What you got? Speak now. LOL
Is there Canada & exports literature--Green book specs, lists, etc,
Do you have income taxes, property , sales.?
Like the pictures I see from NZ.
Hello Ted got 2 32s both mechanical brake cars.
Gene Tulsa

[Brian]

Burt was my first wifes grandfather!
Ford Canada produced a book much the same as the 'green bible', called 'Fast Moving Parts Catalogue' specific to their products. A very invaluable resource that I often refer to.

[Brian]

Gene, I know you were asking about specifically 21 studs [which are my preference as I consider them to be the best of the flatheads], however, there is a certain Canadian post war block numbered as C69A. These are the ultimate thick wall block; introduced in jailbar commercials [maybe pass cars too- who knows?] Displacing 239 cu inches, they had, in addition to the previously mentioned super thick cylinder wall thickness, the 8BA style one piece valve /guide setup, locked in shell rod bearings, no pan rail plugs [Canadian C59A blox still had them]; and were a sort of interim until the 8BA proper came out. They also only had valve seat inserts on exhaust. The original heads for them were numbered C7RA, came in both cast iron and aluminum versions. The aluminium version C7RA head was duplicated by Weiand and popularly known as cheater heads.

[FlatheadTed]

Hi G32 .We do have income taxes,Yes property ,Yes sales.? Yes

Originally Posted by G32

Thanks all...New Zealand!!
Have you guys met Burt Munroe? Wow! Was associated with southland MSC in the 60
OK Canada?? What you got? Speak now. LOL
Is there Canada & exports literature--Green book specs, lists, etc,
Do you have income taxes, property , sales.?
Like the pictures I see from NZ.
Hello Ted got 2 32s both mechanical brake cars.
Gene Tulsa

[Robert Dip]

Brian you statement
" ALL Canadian blocks have featured a 5/8" dia hole at front of block, in pan rail, on pass side [US], which readily identifies the engine as having shell main bearings, actually, there is another 5/8" hole present at rear of pan rail also, in front of oil pump, but one needs to remove oil pan to observe this."
This is very interesting. Another 'Note' for the records...if ever anyone wants to make a complete report on blocks with info from flathead owners and pics to confirm their findings. Robert

[Brian]

Robert, Just to clarify; The 5/8 holes are present in ALL Canadian LB [liner bearing] blocks. The earlier babbit motors did not have that feature.

[Manuel]

There are Canadian Parts Books. We use them in Australia, and NZ too I suppose.

Manuel in Oz

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by Brian

Gene, I know you were asking about specifically 21 studs [which are my preference as I consider them to be the best of the flatheads], however, there is a certain Canadian post war block numbered as C69A. These are the ultimate thick wall block; introduced in jailbar commercials [maybe pass cars too- who knows?] Displacing 239 cu inches, they had, in addition to the previously mentioned super thick cylinder wall thickness, the 8BA style one piece valve /guide setup, locked in shell rod bearings, no pan rail plugs [Canadian C59A blox still had them]; and were a sort of interim until the 8BA proper came out. They also only had valve seat inserts on exhaust. The original heads for them were numbered C7RA, came in both cast iron and aluminum versions. The aluminium version C7RA head was duplicated by Weiand and popularly known as cheater heads.

Brian my black 47 had a c69A block. It supposedly came out of the ex Paul de Martin 36 coupe when Bill koelman put the original type w/pump in head 21 studder back in. I got a set of insert bearings off you after it was found not to have floaters when it was over being hauled. It had all those features you are talking about. Paul Beaumont in Marton still has that black coupe as far as I know. You have answered questions of "why" I have pondered all these years over that motor. I distinctly seeing the C69 on the Bell housing.

GB

[swoopNZ]

Brian,
I have a C69A engine.
Any different to a '46 - '48 Mercury engine ?

[Brian]

Possibly came out in Mercury's too, as Fords and Mercs from that era all displaced 239 cubes

[boo]

i have a 34 that came from so. america,[rh dr] is that eng same as US eng? just pulled it out, greasy but free, i guess it is babbit??? i bolieve the cars were made in canada.