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Old 05-19-2010, 04:27 PM   #1
Jack 34pu
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Default AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

I'm in early stages of buiding an AV8 pu ('50 Merc flathead) and the rear axle will show. I have a Ford 8" rear but it's pumpkin is off center - 9" way to heavy. What open drive banjo rear would fit the A pu and keep the wheels under the fenders? What spring would center the wheels fore & aft as well as bring fender down to tire height. Any tips on an AV8 build would be appreciated from those who have done it
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:34 PM   #2
Tacoma Bob
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

Well it's been a million years. I did it back in 1969. I think the 46 ford truck rear end is open drive-line. Mine was anyway. Depending on the "look" your after I'd go with coil overs now days.
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Old 05-19-2010, 05:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

Speedway and an aussie ccompany have a kit to convert "any" banjo to open drive, you'll have to fabricate some type of wishbone/;adder bar arrangement though.
Paul in CT
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Old 05-19-2010, 05:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

I have an 8 inch under my A. I used the stock spring with tube shocks and
a panhard bar. It has a full wishbone attached to a belly band. T5 transmission..I like the 8 or 9 inch rears because there are so many ratios available. You can go drag racing or run at Bonnevlle or anything in between.
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Old 05-19-2010, 05:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

A Model T rear spring will give you around 2" drop, reversing the eyes on the main leaf will give you another 1". A Model A rear spring can give you the same drop by reversing the eyes, removing about 3 leaves for softer ride, and reshaping the leaves as described in the book "How to build a traditional hotrod" by Bishop/Tardel. I strongly recommend this book to anyone building an AV8.
You can use the original Model A rear end if you're planning on keeping the flattie reasonably stock. It can be fitted with 40-48 hydraulics quite easily. Go to the Hamb and search for threads by a guy called Gashog. He has documented the whole process very well with plenty of pics.
I had a rod many years ago that had an A rear end. I used to give it stick, and it never played up.
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:32 PM   #6
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Smile Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

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I had a rod many years ago that had an A rear end. I used to give it stick, and it never played up.
I know what you are saying, but it sure sounds funny to these American ears.
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

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Originally Posted by Jack 34pu View Post
...I have a Ford 8" rear but it's pumpkin is off center -
If your concern is that the driveshaft will be at an angle, it doesn't matter.

If you're concerned with the appearance, then you probably need the kit to convert an A rear end to open drive.

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Old 05-19-2010, 06:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

There's an AV8 "social group" that you might want to keep an eye on. I'm working on one and I'm planning on using an A rear to get it going and then switching to a '40 rear that I'll have to go over before using it.
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Old 05-19-2010, 09:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

If you want "Old School", use a V8 Halibrand. They look good and you can change ratios easily. Thats what I have in mine.
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

Read this. It's amazing! Open drive on a banjo rear...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5166781
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

Am I in the wrong Forum here? or what?
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:49 PM   #12
Pete
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack 34pu View Post
I'm in early stages of buiding an AV8 pu ('50 Merc flathead) and the rear axle will show. I have a Ford 8" rear but it's pumpkin is off center - 9" way to heavy. What open drive banjo rear would fit the A pu and keep the wheels under the fenders? What spring would center the wheels fore & aft as well as bring fender down to tire height. Any tips on an AV8 build would be appreciated from those who have done it

You might want to check out the AV8 social group. There are some pics there of an alternative method of joining a T5 to a banjo rear end keeping the torque tube.
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

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Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto View Post
Am I in the wrong Forum here? or what?
Jim, the guys are working on putting some V8 Flathead zip into their Model A's and keep them running. No, it's not the Model A forum.
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

Think about how much you plan on driving and how far. The 9" is overkill. A ford banjo center section is very good looking but now days I would question everything inside one if used and in use in a vehicle. If you want that look, which I really like why not keep the closed drive shaft with wishbone and modernize the rear end with modern axles, removable from the outside, better brakes and have some reliability out of it? If using the old 3/4 floating Ford get new axles and new or very good hubs. if any can be found nowdays. My advice is to run brake drum retainers on the rear. I used to have a picture of an A of mine sitting on the street with the wheel about 2 foot out of the housing on the end of an axle that broke near the center section. Thank God it didn,t let go at the taper or I would have needed a wrecker. Open drive shaft is nice but can sometimes be hard to make look good. What tranny you plan on using, 39-48 pickup?
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Old 05-20-2010, 06:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

i think if you check on either one you will find the yoke is in the center of the rear axle, one axle is shorter than the other
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Old 05-20-2010, 09:38 PM   #16
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Thumbs up Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

I am a triditionalist and this is how I did my A-V8. Model A Halibrand, Lincoln Brakes. I drive the hell out of it. it has been together going onto six years now with no problems at all.



Personally, I would not like the look of a modern Rear End in a Triditional Hot Rod.

Just my opinion,

Chris

Last edited by CWPASADENA; 05-20-2010 at 09:39 PM. Reason: TYPO
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Old 05-20-2010, 09:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWPASADENA View Post
I am a triditionalist and this is how I did my A-V8. Model A Halibrand, Lincoln Brakes. I drive the hell out of it. it has been together going onto six years now with no problems at all.



Personally, I would not like the look of a modern Rear End in a Triditional Hot Rod.

Just my opinion,

Chris
PERSONALLY, I have to go with that..All of my street roadsters have had quick changes..Most of them with spools..This has been over a period of many moons. (since 1953)
I think there is nothing better to see than following a roadster with a quickchange down the street ESPECIALLY one with a sprint car rear end and an open axle. There is something mesmerizing about watching that axle turn.

My therapist says, I'm OK and you are not doing so well.
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Old 05-20-2010, 10:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

I used a conversion based on a Hot rod works. My dad was a toolmaker for GM. See the connection? I ran a '36 banjo behind my 286 Flatty/5 Spd combo. Worked great. Low $$ fir what you gain.
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Old 05-20-2010, 10:16 PM   #19
Dennis (EV8G)
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

I'm with Chris, I wouldn't want to see any kind of a modern axle hanging below the bed of my Model A pickup, which has the most visibility of any body style. A thouroughly rebuilt A rear axle can live very comfortably behind a stock or typically modified flathead 8. Probably the biggest factor in it's lifespan is the driver and how he/she "drives". There are a wide variety of gear ratio's available new, so they can be set up to meet your requirements.

If you desire a later, V8-era rear axle then a '33-'34 could be a good option as they offer a stronger design and are essentially the same track-width as an A rear so your tires will stay centered in the fenders. The only down-side to the '33-'34 is that they are *typically* a 4.11 ratio and new, taller ratio's aren't available for these two years. Original 3.54 gears were available but are next to impossible to find these days. (Although ring & pinion sets for '35 and later can be modified to work, this was done to get 3.54 gears in my Dad's '34 Roadster.) However, if you are planning an open drive set-up because a 5 speed transmission is going to be used, like a T5, then the 4:11 gear would offer great around town driving and the overdrive will drop the engine RPM to a more than comfortable speed on the highway.

If you wanted to further fortify the axle, the Hot Rod Works could set it up with 8/9" style push-in axles and bearings which can still work with early Ford or Lincoln hydraulic brakes to keep the appearance traditional.

You would also have to install spring shackle brackets on top of the axle tubes to mimic the Model A arrangement, but you would have to do this with an 8" too. And, like said above, using a Model T spring with reversed eyes will net you about a 3" drop out back and you could probably get even more by de-arching the spring.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: AV8 - banjo rear vs Ford 8" question?

My dad was a toolmaker for GM. See the connection?

No.
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