Struggling with the "pickle fork!"

[36tudordeluxe]

Have 15 out of 16 valves installed and everyone of them was a battle, # 4 intake has defeated me. The problem is I can't pull the guides down far enough to slip the clips on, just a few thousandths short, tried 3 different forks; what am I doing wrong?

[RalphM]

Check the guide, and guide bore. may be hanging up there.

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Have 15 out of 16 valves installed and everyone of them was a battle, # 4 intake has defeated me. The problem is I can't pull the guides down far enough to slip the clips on, just a few thousandths short, tried 3 different forks; what am I doing wrong?

Hi Bob, that job is really very easy with a conventional c-clamp style spring compressor? This is how we assemble ALL our Flathead builds.

We use an air-operated one but a hand-operated works as well, just takes a bit longer!

Lately we've been doing and supplying the bronze-lined guides with that "lip" removed on the guides in order to use some "Viton" stem seals on the intakes!
Photo below.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a link to a photo I placed up here about a year or so ago. We disassemble them also (most times) with this same tool.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ing+compressor

[johncusano]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Have 15 out of 16 valves installed and everyone of them was a battle, # 4 intake has defeated me. The problem is I can't pull the guides down far enough to slip the clips on, just a few thousandths short, tried 3 different forks; what am I doing wrong?

Just did mine this past weekend had the same problem with a half dozen valves. The notch in the guide wore and the tool slips past it. Cut the valve stem and hammer the guide into the valley.


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[RalphM]

Originally Posted by johncusano

Just did mine this past weekend had the same problem with a half dozen valves. The notch in the guide wore and the tool slips past it. Cut the valve stem and hammer the guide into the valley.


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I think he’s talking about putting good ones in, not taking bad ones out.

I have also used the modern hand operated valve spring tool. but mainly for taking the 8BA valves apart. Makes it easy to remove keepers, then valve comes out and guide can be pushed down as John said.

[johncusano]

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Originally Posted by RalphM

I think he’s talking about putting good ones in, not taking bad ones out.



I have also used the modern hand operated valve spring tool. but mainly for taking the 8BA valves apart. Makes it easy to remove keepers, then valve comes out and guide can be pushed down as John said.

OOOPS you are correct sorry.


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[chap52]

Assuming that the guide bore is smooth and a little lube added and it still won't go. You said this was an intake valve so my guess would be the valve seal is hanging up somewhere. Sometimes they twist and then un-twist when you pull it out to check what's going on.
Ol' Ron says he just uses RTV on the guides and not the rubber/neoprene seals?

Will the guide, by itself slide down into the guide bore without hanging up? I believe it should. I recall that I have placed and horseshoe clipped the guide in place then dropped in valve, slid spring and washer on from the bottom and used that pickle fork to compress the spring enough to get those little retainers (a little grease helps hold them in place. I believe I had to clamp the valve so it would not slide up when I applied fork pressure.
CAUTION: stuff rags or paper towel in all the holes where those retainers can fall through when you drop them in the valley...Not fun thinking that one might have disappeared into the block or down into the pan...don't ask!
Keep us posted. Chap

[Mike51Merc]

If you can't get enough distance in your pull, then use a small block of wood as a fulcrum.

[Mart]

On an inlet you can sometimes use a suitably shaped tire iron down the inlet port to push the guide down. I use this method a lot for installing the inlets. It's easier than using the pickle fork. It can also be used for removal of slightly stubborn (but not really stuck) ones. Use with caution.

Mart.

[flatheadmurre]

You probably already know it...but if the lifter is up lifting the valve it´s not enough room to get the guide down to install the horseshoe clip.
So have to turn the engine over while installing the clips.

[GOSFAST]

Hi Bob, you can use that small spring compressor also, as a business we just don't have the time to spend on assembling the valve train. For this reason only we opt use the air-operated tool.

It takes us about a 1/2 hour to get all 16 valves/springs assembled, works like a charm! The hand-operated would probably take about an extra 1/2 hour, just guessing?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's another couple shots (post previously) showing the "straight" fingers required with either the air or the hand tool. Without these fingers it isn't possible to accomplish the job to best of my knowledge!

[macdonge]

Gary: What are the model numbers for (& perhaps where did you get) the spring compressors you've shown?

[cas3]

have you got these gizmo's? i use the big heavy duty one to get stubborn ones to move, then once its moved a bit the skinny one will fit around the valve and get the guide down far enough to remove the clip, and still allows enough room to get the tool out. the pointy thing is for grabbing the hole in the clip, but i rarely use it as they come out easy once the guide is down far enough.

[Jack E/NJ]

Used this little gizmo to remove & insert guide retainers. Rotate crank to lift valve. Insert half-round steel clip into port & snap it on valve stem between guide & stem ring. Rotate crank to closed-valve position. Valve stays open by this stemclip. Push valve assembly down to remove or insert retainer. No brute force or guide pull forks needed. Initially had to use MEK-ATF penetrant and tap away on the valve heads for a few days to loosen the guides enough to get them to start moving again in their bores after ~70 years. Jack E/NJ

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by macdonge

Gary: What are the model numbers for (& perhaps where did you get) the spring compressors you've shown?

Hi Mac, the type on the left (air-operated) runs anywhere from $600.00 to $1600.00. With the Flatheads there'd be no need for that very expensive one?

Occasionally on some of our (SBC) race builds we work with springs that have 400# closed and 1400# open (at close to 1.000" lifts). The expensive air tool handles these numbers nicely with a minimal air supply (100#).

The "mower/cycle" one on the right runs about $20.00, and hand-opearted one runs between $60.00 and a couple hundred!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. You buy/pay accordingly to what your needs be!!

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

Used this little gizmo to remove & insert guide retainers. Rotate crank to lift valve. Insert half-round steel clip into port & snap it on valve stem between guide & stem ring. Rotate crank to closed-valve position. Valve stays open by this stemclip. Push valve assembly down to remove or insert retainer. No brute force or guide pull forks needed. Initially had to use MEK-ATF penetrant and tap away on the valve heads for a few days to loosen the guides enough to get them to start moving again in their bores after ~70 years. Jack E/NJ

Jack, must be looking at it wrong, but my locks go at the the bottom of the guide where the retainers are?

[Mart]

Seems some of replies are not addressing the original poster's statement. He's struggling to grab the guides with the pickle fork and pull them down enough to get the guide retainer clip on. (Horseshoe clip).

My advice still stands. Push the guide down with a tyre lever.

Mart.

[Jack E/NJ]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Jack, must be looking at it wrong, but my locks go at the the bottom of the guide where the retainers are?

Yep. The retainer isn't shown in drawing. Only the slot it goes into is shown at the bottom of the guide. The stemclip gizmo pushes the guide down when the top of the valve is pushed down. Jack E/NJ

[cas3]

Jack, thats a pretty neat thing i have not seen before, did you make it?

[36tudordeluxe]

Finally got valve installed! The solution was so simple, just took a large drift and put it in intake port on top of guide and pried up, nearly effortless; this would be the only way I would install intake valves in then future.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

Finally got valve installed! The solution was so simple, just took a large drift and put it in intake port on top of guide and pried up, nearly effortless; this would be the only way I would install intake valves in then future.

Just like Mart suggested

Bob

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Just like Mart suggested

Bob

Yes, Mart had the solution right from the beginning, but I dismissed it as soon as I saw the words "tire iron" without completely ready all the way through. Won't make that mistake again!

[Mart]

Glad you found a simple solution! Thanks for the pm.

Mart.