MARC enforcing Region membership requirement

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

We are working on a hold harmless document to keep on file for those that opt out of national membership.

It will state that they are aware of the purpose of a region, the fact that the national club has liability insurance for approved region club activities and by opting out they agree to to hold harmless the national club, local region, it's members and officers from suits arriving from those club activities.

There are many cases where waivers of Hold Harmless are not worth the paper upon which they are printed.

Chet

[fiddlybits]

I have seen this same fear in two other "older" organizations that I belong to.
In one of them, barbershopping, which consists of a group of guys with an AVERAGE age of 72.5, dues were $108 with 50% discount for those over 65. We decided to raise the dues to $180, remove the discount and levy an additional $150 for local dues and guess what? We did not lose a single member.

The $38 is less than I pay for some magazine subscription full of fluff that have articles written for mouth breathers and knuckle walkers . For $38 we are getting a great magazine, with articles of interest as well as access to technical resources. I think it's a bargain.

Unfortunately, I have seen how the value of a hold harmless agreement is less than the paper it is printed on. (sure, you signed it...but the lawyer is representing your wife/family/estate/etc....and they did not sign it.

[Growley bear]

A person or club can have all the insurance in the world and if you/the club are sued and regardless who wins in court, everybody loses.

Chet

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Growley bear

A $38.00 yearly membership fee is a small price as organizations such as MARC and MAFCA to name a few are in large part responsible for we as owners of antique cars to have the privilege to operate them on the public roads and highways.

Chet

You are right on. If it was not for them, we might not be driving are cars on the roads. A lot of drivers would like to see the old slow cars that do not go 20 miles per hour over the speed limit off the roads.

[Growley bear]

What George Miller says. No truer words were ever spoken. There is power in numbers and these large numbers keep the wolves at bay. Thanks, George.

Chet

[BlueSunoco]

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Agreed. There are plenty of folks out there who would love to see our old cars off the road entirely. Then throw in the people who hate internal combustion engine cars and it gets ugly. (Although those same gas and diesel haters use, gas and diesel and jet fueled vehicles to get around in!!)

[Old182]

Good discussion. As you may be aware, there are significant changes coming within MARC regarding liability insurance. A good part of the Board of Directors meeting in St. Louis was spent on insurance issues and there have been several meetings since focused on getting the right insurance for MARC members and at a reasonable cost. This will likely be discussed at French Lick later this month with announcements planned in the Model A News as well. MARC membership is crucial to making the system work at its best efficiency. Stay tuned.

Joe Valentine
Secretary, MARC

[w.michael]

Our region has for many years required all our members to be national members. We collect our regional dues and national dues all at one time, and our treasurer forwards our national dues to MARC. That way we are sure we comply with MARC's requirements every year. Don't play games. If you are a MARC region, comply with MARC's requirements.

W. Michael
MARC member since 1968

[redmodelt]

So if your local club is member of both MAFCA and MARC that would mean bottom line you would need to pay your clubs dues and both of the national clubs dues or pick one or the other national clubs to be affiliated with.
Our Model T club went on our own, dropping memberships in ether of the national clubs. We formed a LLC and the club carries insurance to cover "the club", members are still required to carry insurance on their own cars to cover their car.

[willobs]

I believe $38 is very reasonable to join MARC.

[Will N]

Originally Posted by Old182

Good discussion. As you may be aware, there are significant changes coming within MARC regarding liability insurance. A good part of the Board of Directors meeting in St. Louis was spent on insurance issues and there have been several meetings since focused on getting the right insurance for MARC members and at a reasonable cost. This will likely be discussed at French Lick later this month with announcements planned in the Model A News as well. MARC membership is crucial to making the system work at its best efficiency. Stay tuned.

Joe Valentine
Secretary, MARC

Joe, As you are the MARC Secretary, perhaps you might be able to answer me this: what if our region wants to continue our affiliation with MARC, but will not risk loosing 70% of our membership to enforce MARC's requirment that all our local members be MARC members too? If we submit our region's renewal form, and do not sign the statement that affirms that all our local members are MARC members, will MARC accept our region's renewal? If MARC accepts our renewal, will MARC ever give us a Certificate of Liability Insurance for any event our club holds?

[Mike V. Florida]

Exchange from last month,

OK,

Just heard a rumor that MARC will be eliminating regions with small national memberships. Is the request for a number of National members in our club for purposes of deciding to remove the club from the rolls? Is this connected to the search for a new insurance company?
Is it just small national memberships or the ratio of National to casual members that will lead to the removal?
I have heard this from other clubs in Florida.
Mike Vitetta

message dated 5/20/2014 2:19:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Dear Mike.
Amazing how rumors start. I will try and keep it simple. The request is made by our new Insurance Company. They are trying to find out how many region members are members of MARC. The intent is to NOT eliminate or diminish the role or the size of a Region.
Our Constitution states the following for Regions and their membership:
"A minimum of five (5) members in good standing may petition to form a New Region in MARC upon completion of an application and payment of an application fee as determined by the Board. The application shall be reviewed for completion and verified to assure each member is in good standing. A prerequisite for all Region Members shall be MARC membership. All MARC members shall be eligible for Region Membership."
The sticking point is the guideline requiring MARC Membership. Some Regions have members that are not MARC Members. Our Insurance policy essentially covers MARC Members. Those that are not put the region members and MARC in jeopardy. MARC membership supports the cost of maintaining our National Club which includes insurance, standing committees, employees, publications, office building and maintenance thereof.
Sincerely,
Gary Johnson
MARC Vice President.
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 14:45:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Email from the Website
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]


I always want to go back to the source when it comes to rumors. It is easier to squash them that way.

Mike
Hi Mike,
I agree it is best to squash these rumors before they have a chance to START but when already being spread we need to make sure all members get the real story and not innuendo or rumor.
It is part of my job as Director of Membership and Public Relations to make sure MARC grows and remains at healthy membership numbers.
It will never be the intent of this club to reduce our membership by even one person and certainly not any regions.
Quite the contrary, we are doing all we can to increase the membership in MARC and need the help of all the regions to do so.
We will be adding on Regions as they are formed by groups around the country and even the world.
We have active Regions in many countries around the world and communicate with them frequently.
It is as Gary has indicated very important that all members be members of the National MARC to support our efforts to cover all of the members and regions with a significant insurance policy so if a catastrophic event occurs they can be protected by our policy.
The National Board of Directors has made decisions to make sure this is all possible to protect those members and regions that we are talking about. Please remember all Board of Directors come from a Region.
I want to thank you for bringing this rumor to our attention so we can squelch it as soon as possible.
Thanks for being a dedicated member of the Model A Restorers Club,
Ken
MARC Director of Membership and Public Relations


Ken Ehrenhofer
[email protected]
Home 815 -337-4656
Mobile 630-697-3906

[Old182]

Will, the MARC Constitution requries all Region members to be MARC national members. Our Region (Hudson Valley) has always required MARC membership in its Bylaws so that all new members came in knowing they must join MARC as a requisite to joining the Region. As others do, our treasurer collects dues for our Region and for MARC and sends a check to the national office. Regarding partial MARC membership within a Region, you bring up a very interesting point and I'm sure our insurance exec will address it. As Gary and Ken stated, it's the intent of MARC to not only keep the membership it has, but to expand its memberhsip by offering excellent liability insurance for MARC-related events, including an umbrella policy over and above the basic coverage. We feel that although some folks may opt out of MARC, most will recognize the benefits it offers and will stay. Obviously, the Board hopes others will join in as well. We know that clubs are not for everyone, but as most of us feel about Ford Barn, we believe MARC brings a lot to the table regarding education through its publications, fine point and touring class judging standards, fashion judging standards, youth programs, and annual meets for the exchange of ideas and to better the hobby. For less than a tank of gas, an individual can avail himself of these benefits for a year. The reality of the world we live in is that lawsuits happen (see thread re: MAFCA Lawsuit) and that MARC wishes to mitigate to the best of its ability any circumstance that may occur in the future. This may require full MARC membership from its Regions. As stated earlier -stay tuned.

[Will N]

Originally Posted by Old182

Will, the MARC Constitution requries all Region members to be MARC national members. Our Region (Hudson Valley) has always required MARC membership in its Bylaws so that all new members came in knowing they must join MARC as a requisite to joining the Region. As others do, our treasurer collects dues for our Region and for MARC and sends a check to the national office. Regarding partial MARC membership within a Region, you bring up a very interesting point and I'm sure our insurance exec will address it. As Gary and Ken stated, it's the intent of MARC to not only keep the membership it has, but to expand its memberhsip by offering excellent liability insurance for MARC-related events, including an umbrella policy over and above the basic coverage. We feel that although some folks may opt out of MARC, most will recognize the benefits it offers and will stay. Obviously, the Board hopes others will join in as well. We know that clubs are not for everyone, but as most of us feel about Ford Barn, we believe MARC brings a lot to the table regarding education through its publications, fine point and touring class judging standards, fashion judging standards, youth programs, and annual meets for the exchange of ideas and to better the hobby. For less than a tank of gas, an individual can avail himself of these benefits for a year. The reality of the world we live in is that lawsuits happen (see thread re: MAFCA Lawsuit) and that MARC wishes to mitigate to the best of its ability any circumstance that may occur in the future. This may require full MARC membership from its Regions. As stated earlier -stay tuned.

Thanks Joe, with the stay tuned comment, and that fact that you did not directly answer the two pointed questions I had, can I infer that the answers to these questions have not been decided by MARC leadership yet?

Don't get me wrong, I personally feel INDIVIDUAL membership in MARC is well worth the $38. And yeah, that's less than a tank of gas. But I'm telling you flat out, we have scores of members who will not renew in our club if their dues were to increase by the $38. If we were forced to require MARC membership in our club to continue to be a Region of MARC, our clear choice would be to no longer be a region of MARC. It's a simple matter of economics.

[C26Pinelake]

Why can you not just join the National organization and they designate you to the chapter of your choice and forward a portion of your yearly dues to the local chapter. As I see it the local chapters are predominately social function groups. IMO
Wayne

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

Why can you not just join the National organization and they designate you to the chapter of your choice and forward a portion of your yearly dues to the local chapter. As I see it the local chapters are predominately social function groups. IMO
Wayne

what if there is no local group to join? what happens to the portion you want to be forwarded?

I appears to me that a lot of those posting here have the relationship backwards as far as national clubs and local clubs go.

The local club is the local representative of the national club. It is a place where those that belong to the national club meet locally.

It is not a local car club that affiliates it's self with a national club.

As mentioned before, by way of actual correspondence with MARC insurance representatives, If one wants to be covered by the national club insurance, one has to be a member of the national club.

Let me try this, if you want hagarty to pay your claim you need to pay hagarty for a policy. Hagarty will not cover your car just because you own an old car.

[Old182]

Will, you are correct in that final decisions have not been made yet (sorry about the dancing). It would be very difficult to police the membership requirement, and in the end I suspect MARC (and the insurer) would rely on the honesty of the Regions to comply. However, ultimately the insurer must decide whether to cover non-MARC members of Regions and whether to issue special event coverage to Regions that do not conform to the rules. MARC is not the insurer and to my knowledge has no authority to issue coverage on its own. And as we all know, things seem to go very smoothly until something happens, then the ....well, you know. There must be a set of rules and constrictions that will allow an insurer to cover the almost 8,000 members of MARC and their guests at events, but also at a reasonable cost to MARC. This Board is working very hard at finding that sweet spot of coverage vs. cost and at the same time trying to retain its membership. Please be patient as I'm confident there will be fair decisions and announcements made soon.

[firetique57]

[QUOTE=Mike V. Florida;893334]

The local club is the local representative of the national club. It is a place where those that belong to the national club meet locally.

By that statement then if you join the local club are you not in fact joining the National? And if you are required to join the National to be affiliated with the local are you not then joining the National twice?

I had a thought on this. As a past President of a local chapter of SPAAMFAA (antique fire apparatus collectors) I suggested that the National organization charge the local chapters a yearly fee (dues) to be affiliated with the National and its benefits and then the local chapter could adjust its membership dues to cover this yearly expense. A whole new can of worms opened up with that one.

[Mike V. Florida]

[QUOTE=firetique57;893347]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

The local club is the local representative of the national club. It is a place where those that belong to the national club meet locally.

By that statement then if you join the local club are you not in fact joining the National?

NO, because you did not finish the whole thought. If you join just a local club and the local club does not forward dues to the national club do you still get the national magazine? No of course not. So no if you join the local club are you are not joining the National

And if you are required to join the National to be affiliated with the local are you not then joining the National twice?

NO

I had a thought on this. As a past President of a local chapter of SPAAMFAA (antique fire apparatus collectors) I suggested that the National organization charge the local chapters a yearly fee (dues) to be affiliated with the National and its benefits and then the local chapter could adjust its membership dues to cover this yearly expense. A whole new can of worms opened up with that one.

[Mike V. Florida]

I'm a simple guy so maybe I just don't get it. I don't understand all the apparent confusion in this thread.

If you want the national magazine you have to belong to the national organization.

If you want the national insurance you have to belong to the national organization.

Some clubs automatically include the national dues in the local club dues and passes them on to national. Some don't do that.

MARC is asking for an audit to see how many members of the local clubs are also members of the national club.

That's it that's all there is to it. MARC is not kicking anyone out of the local clubs, they are not shutting down local clubs.

After reading two pages of this I see that they do need to get the message out that if you are not a member of the national club you will not receive the benefits of the nation club just because you belong to the local club, period.

Can you belong to a local cub and not the national one, yes but you will not receive the benefits.