MARC enforcing Region membership requirement

[Will N]

Has anyone noticed in the last couple of issues of the "Model A News" (particularly in the Board Meeting minutes in the latest issue), that MARC will begin enforcing their requirement that every member of a local MARC Regional Club also be a member of the National Club. The minutes state that on the Region renewal form, an club officer will have to sign the application attesting that all the local club's members are also MARC members. Also, on requests for Certificates of Liability Insurance, there will be a similar attestation required.

This rule has been in the MARC bylaws for years, but only now, with the heightened liability insurance awarness these days, is MARC beginning to crack down and enforce the requirement.

I can tell you for our own local club, that requiring all of our members to pay the $38 annual MARC membership dues in addition to our own club's dues would decimate our membership.

Have any of you guys who are leaders among your local clubs that are also Regions of MARC discussed this issue? What are your feelings, and how do you plan to deal with this?

[Roadster62]

Other national clubs have/had the same rule, tough rule to enforce. Bob

[Mike V. Florida]

It's for liability insurance (they are looking at new insurance companies). If you are not a national member you are not covered by national liability insurance.

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by Will N

Has anyone noticed in the last couple of issues of the "Model A News" (particularly in the Board Meeting minutes in the latest issue), that MARC will begin enforcing their requirement that every member of a local MARC Regional Club also be a member of the National Club. The minutes state that on the Region renewal form, an club officer will have to sign the application attesting that all the local club's members are also MARC members. Also, on requests for Certificates of Liability Insurance, there will be a similar attestation required.

This rule has been in the MARC bylaws for years, but only now, with the heightened liability insurance awarness these days, is MARC beginning to crack down and enforce the requirement.

I can tell you for our own local club, that requiring all of our members to pay the $38 annual MARC membership dues in addition to our own club's dues we would decimate our membership.

Have any of you guys who are leaders among your local clubs that are also Regions of MARC discussed this issue? What are your feelings, and how do you plan to deal with this?

A $38.00 yearly membership fee is a small price as organizations such as MARC and MAFCA to name a few are in large part responsible for we as owners of antique cars to have the privilege to operate them on the public roads and highways.

Chet

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Will N

Have any of you guys who are leaders among your local clubs that are also Regions of MARC discussed this issue? What are your feelings, and how do you plan to deal with this?

We are working on a hold harmless document to keep on file for those that opt out of national membership.

It will state that they are aware of the purpose of a region, the fact that the national club has liability insurance for approved region club activities and by opting out they agree to to hold harmless the national club, local region, it's members and officers from suits arriving from those club activities.

[Will N]

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Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

It's for liability insurance (they are looking at new insurance companies). If you are not a national member you are not covered by national liability insurance.

I believe that's not entirely correct. When MARC (or any national org) has their underwriter issue a certificate of liablity insurance, the entity that the insurance is covering is the local club and usually a second named certificateholder, usually the site where the event is being held. If anyone were to sue the local club, the liability insurance would cover that local club. The person bringing the suit does not have to be a MARC member for the liability insurance to kick in. For example, you're having a car show, and someone off the street comes to view the cars and trips and falls on the show field. The local club is covered for the liablity if that spectator sues the club. The liability insurance is not covering each individual club member for their own person liability. That is what your own auto insurance policy is for.

MARC wants to enforce the rule that all Regional members be MARC members to bring in more dues money to the National club in order to offset the rising cost of the liability insurance.

I could foresee that if we were to require our members to be MARC members, we'd loose about 70% of our local membership. That translates to over $4,000 in annual dues for our club. For far less than that, our club could purchase its own umbrella liability policy and not rely on MARC to provide the insurance.

Other than the liability insurance, and the ability to post ads in the "Model A News" what other real benefits are there to being a Region of MARC?

[gz]

The magazine alone is easily worth the price of the MARC membership. Other benefits include being able to attend National Meets and tours. The 38.00 membership fee is less than the cost of a tank of gas-a certainly reasonable amount to pay. I feel the same way about MAFCA, MTFCA, AACA, etc. These clubs are the backbone of the hobby.

[Will N]

Originally Posted by gz

The magazine alone is easily worth the price of the MARC membership. Other benefits include being able to attend National Meets and tours. The 38.00 membership fee is less than the cost of a tank of gas-a certainly reasonable amount to pay. I feel the same way about MAFCA, MTFCA, AACA, etc. These clubs are the backbone of the hobby.

Those are all individual member benefits. And I'm not disputing that it's worthwhile being an individual member of MARC. But what are the benefits (other than the liability insurance) to the local regional club being affiliated with the national organization?

[Will N]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

We are working on a hold harmless document to keep on file for those that opt out of national membership.

It will state that they are aware of the purpose of a region, the fact that the national club has liability insurance for approved region club activities and by opting out they agree to to hold harmless the national club, local region, it's members and officers from suits arriving from those club activities.

That's an interesting approach, but what does your president intend to do when he has to sign the attestation that all members of your region are MARC members? He won't be able to truthully sign that document, regardless of the hold harmless letters you've collected from the non-MARC members. I wonder what MARC intends to do if a Region submits a renewal, and the local president does not sign the attestation? Will they refuse to accept the region's renewal? Will they accept the renewal, but refuse to issue Certificates of Liability coverage to the region? This will be an interesting thing to see play out.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Will N

I believe that's not entirely correct. When MARC (or any national org) has their underwriter issue a certificate of liablity insurance, the entity that the insurance is covering is the local club and usually a second named certificateholder, usually the site where the event is being held. If anyone were to sue the local club, the liability insurance would cover that local club. The person bringing the suit does not have to be a MARC member for the liability insurance to kick in. For example, you're having a car show, and someone off the street comes to view the cars and trips and falls on the show field. The local club is covered for the liablity if that spectator sues the club. The liability insurance is not covering each individual club member for their own person liability. That is what your own auto insurance policy is for.

MARC wants to enforce the rule that all Regional members be MARC members to bring in more dues money to the National club in order to offset the rising cost of the liability insurance.

I could foresee that if we were to require our members to be MARC members, we'd loose about 70% of our local membership. That translates to over $4,000 in annual dues for our club. For far less than that, our club could purchase its own umbrella liability policy and not rely on MARC to provide the insurance.

Other than the liability insurance, and the ability to post ads in the "Model A News" what other real benefits are there to being a Region of MARC?

Just saying.
This came from MARC;

Please understand that many people think they have some sort of insurance "coverage" from MARC, and some assume that it is a lot more than it really is. MARC holds a General Liability Insurance to defend MARC against any suit seeking damages to which this insurance applies. Additionally, the insurance has no duty to defend against any suit that the insurance does not apply. There is an Endorsement to the policy adding "Additional Insured" that I've spelled out below. Basically what this all means is that if you and your members, who are MARC members, are involved in activities that are in the best interest of MARC, and happen to be involved in an incident where someone is injured, or property damaged, and you or your members are sued, MARC's Insurance Company will defend you against the claim of liability, and by extension, if necessary,pay the claim.

In this economic time, where anyone can and is sued from spilling coffee to a kid at a car show opening your door and slamming it closed with his fingers in the door, we are all at greater risk. That is the whole reason for MARC extending liability coverage to their members.

MARC's liability policy does not come into play for any moving incident, that's your own automobile insurance.

[Will N]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Just saying.
This came from MARC;

Please understand that many people think they have some sort of insurance "coverage" from MARC, and some assume that it is a lot more than it really is. MARC holds a General Liability Insurance to defend MARC against any suit seeking damages to which this insurance applies. Additionally, the insurance has no duty to defend against any suit that the insurance does not apply. There is an Endorsement to the policy adding "Additional Insured" that I've spelled out below. Basically what this all means is that if you and your members, who are MARC members, are involved in activities that are in the best interest of MARC, and happen to be involved in an incident where someone is injured, or property damaged, and you or your members are sued, MARC's Insurance Company will defend you against the claim of liability, and by extension, if necessary,pay the claim.

In this economic time, where anyone can and is sued from spilling coffee to a kid at a car show opening your door and slamming it closed with his fingers in the door, we are all at greater risk. That is the whole reason for MARC extending liability coverage to their members.

MARC's liability policy does not come into play for any moving incident, that's your own automobile insurance.

Right, this backs up what I explained in my post. The insurance protects the club and by extension it's members from being sued for damages by anyone.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Will N

Right, this backs up what I explained in my post. The insurance protects the club and by extension it's members from being sued for damages by anyone.

So we both said the same thing. Member of national, protected, not member, not protected.

[CarlG]

Cheaper than Costco or Sam's club membership!

I am a card carrying paying member of all of the ones listed below. I like the mags as much as anything else.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So we both said the same thing. Member of national, protected, not member, not protected.

I never thought really that much about it, just belonged for the magazines more than anything else. Now I realize that membership in the National Clubs is also additional cheap insurance and today, sadly, you need all the protection you can get. That alone is worth quite a bit. Makes the annual dues fairly cheap in retrospect.

[Kevin in NJ]

I think this needs to be presented in a different perspective.

In order to keep the dues down for those who do pay it is in your interest to have more people in the national club. I believe the cost for the insurance is the same if we have 100,000 members or 200,000 members. So you have to spread that cost over the total membership.

So if you allow none members to exist in your local club then you are basically paying for them too, but in reality you are affecting everyone as all members are subsidizing the none payers in your club.

Is that fair to everyone?

[Gary Karr]

The San Diego Model A Club requires membership in at least one of the National clubs, MARC or MAFCA.

[Will N]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So we both said the same thing. Member of national, protected, not member, not protected.

I'm guessing that what the root issue is is that for the most, the people who are doing most of the suing are members of the local clubs and not members of MARC. They attend a club sponsored event, get hurt, sue their club, sue MARC too because their club is a region of MARC, and collect a payment. They benefited from the insurance without having to pay anything toward the cost of it. MARC is (perhaps reasonably) stating that if you want to benefit from this insurance you should help offset the cost of it.

I'm trying to understand the distiction you are drawing about who is protected. Let's say someone off the street, neither a local club member or MARC member, hurts themselves on a car at a show that is owned by a member of the local club who but is not a member of MARC. This spectator sues the car owner, sues the local club, and sues MARC. Are you interpreting what MARC wrote to mean that because the car owner is not a member of MARC that this insurance does not cover the car owner, and because of that, the local club is also not covered? Or is it that the car owner is not covered, but the local club still is covered? I don't believe that the MARC liability insurance ever covers the car owner for the car owner's liability. That would be covered by the car owners own auto insurance. The MARC liability insurance covers the local club and of course MARC. (As an aside, every local club should incorporate in order to shield it's members and particularly its leaders from liability. This way, only the assets of the incorporated club are at risk, and not the personal assets of its members)

Notice how in MARC's explanation you posted, it is in bold underlined text "we will defend you". I'm reading this to mean that the "you" means the local club only because earlier in the paragraph, they draw a distiction between "you and your members".

[msmaron]

What you are going to see also is that clubs will also be required to carry their own liability coverage for those that REFUSE to join a national. There will be 2 separate groups that are covered within the same club by 2 separate polices... For me the dues should be raised to 45.00 to help defer the costs. Do you realize what you get with this organization!!

[Will N]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

I never thought really that much about it, just belonged for the magazines more than anything else. Now I realize that membership in the National Clubs is also additional cheap insurance and today, sadly, you need all the protection you can get. That alone is worth quite a bit. Makes the annual dues fairly cheap in retrospect.

No, you are not covered personally. Your local club is covered from any actions that you take that may lead to damages.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Will N

I'm guessing that what the root issue is is that for the most, the people who are doing most of the suing are members of the local clubs and not members of MARC. They attend a club sponsored event, get hurt, sue their club, sue MARC too because their club is a region of MARC, and collect a payment. They benefited from the insurance without having to pay anything toward the cost of it. MARC is (perhaps reasonably) stating that if you want to benefit from this insurance you should help offset the cost of it.

I'm trying to understand the distiction you are drawing about who is protected. Let's say someone off the street, neither a local club member or MARC member, hurts themselves on a car at a show that is owned by a member of the local club who but is not a member of MARC. This spectator sues the car owner, sues the local club, and sues MARC. Are you interpreting what MARC wrote to mean that because the car owner is not a member of MARC that this insurance does not cover the car owner, and because of that, the local club is also not covered? Or is it that the car owner is not covered, but the local club still is covered? I don't believe that the MARC liability insurance ever covers the car owner for the car owner's liability. That would be covered by the car owners own auto insurance. The MARC liability insurance covers the local club and of course MARC. (As an aside, every local club should incorporate in order to shield it's members and particularly its leaders from liability. This way, only the assets of the incorporated club are at risk, and not the personal assets of its members)

Notice how in MARC's explanation you posted, it is in bold underlined text "we will defend you". I'm reading this to mean that the "you" means the local club only because earlier in the paragraph, they draw a distiction between "you and your members".

Originally Posted by Will N

No, you are not covered personally. Your local club is covered from any actions that you take that may lead to damages.

Call MARC as I don't know how to make it any easier. Member of national marc covered, Not a member of national marc not covered. That simple!!!!!

I've looked it on the web site, I emailed them, I've called them, I've done it, you think I'm wrong you do it.