How important is the oil pan baffle

[rockfla]

How important is the oil pan baffle on a 21 stud stock motor?? I know it serves a purpose as they wouldn't have put it in there IF it didn't serve a purpose. I have a pan that is missing the baffle.

[Jack E/NJ]

Probably not too important except on steep hills, washboard roads, jack rabbit starts/stops, high speed sharp turns, roundy-round racing, etc.

[Ronnieroadster]

If your referring to the plate that's located in the sump area of the pan running side to side when the latter 80 pound pump is used the plate is removed due to it being in the way of the latter pumps pickup.

With the plate removed its best to use the latter oil pump assembly.
The early oil pump pickup location is closer to the rear of the sump so it clears that plate.
Ronnieroadster

[rockfla]

Ronnieroadster


SO I have the later pump and pick up going in, I shouldn't worry too much about the tray missing completely???

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Ronnieroadster


SO I have the later pump and pick up going in, I shouldn't worry too much about the tray missing completely???

I can tell you from hands on personal experience, keep as much of the baffle in place as possible.
You will experience lowered oil pressure going up hills and around corners.
My most recent experience was one with a '34 coupe. The owner had installed an 80# pump completely removing the pan baffle. Guess what? Yep, low oil pressure at times.
Installed as much of the formerly removed baffle and the oil pressure issue was resolved permanently.

Do it once, do it correctly.

[rockfla]

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Michael

That's what I am afraid of....I don't want to take any chances. NOW the issue is with mine completely missing either getting a whole new pan OR figuring out how to make one and install it??? AND Having one made similar to stock with NO example to copy

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Michael

That's what I am afraid of....I don't want to take any chances. NOW the issue is with mine completely missing either getting a whole new pan OR figuring out how to make one and install it??? AND Having one made similar to stock with NO example to copy

Robert, Don't overthink this. You are most likely able to see where the old baffle had resided.
Two pieces of sheet metal maybe 2" in height tack welded to the side of the pan (one each side) and long enough to get close to the sump. You want to keep the sheet metal off the bottom of the pan about 1/4" or so.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Kube

Robert, Don't overthink this. You are most likely able to see where the old baffle had resided.
Two pieces of sheet metal maybe 2" in height tack welded to the side of the pan (one each side) and long enough to get close to the sump. You want to keep the sheet metal off the bottom of the pan about 1/4" or so.

Michael
I looked back at on old post and found a posted copy out of a manual of the exploded view of the pan and tray from a past post....I will most likely fab one up out of card board first before I start cutting sheet metal and welding!!! Thanks.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Michael
I looked back at on old post and found a posted copy out of a manual of the exploded view of the pan and tray from a past post....I will most likely fab one up out of card board first before I start cutting sheet metal and welding!!! Thanks.

Good thinking indeed.

[DavidG]

Robert,


I assume that you are talking about a pre-1936 21-stud V8, correct? Why do you want to use a later pump when the '32-'35 pumps with baffles performed satisfactorily for billions of miles?

[rockfla]

David


I guess the main reason being, it was "suggested" that the new Melling 8BA pump was a "good" (reliable/quality) pump to use as a "replacement" for the original pump that was removed and pickup tube that was destroyed

[Kube]

Originally Posted by rockfla

David


I guess the main reason being, it was "suggested" that the new Melling 8BA pump was a "good" (reliable/quality) pump to use as a "replacement" for the original pump that was removed and pickup tube that was destroyed

I'm with David on this.
There is no real reason a high-volume pump is necessary.
I was under the impression the later pump had already been installed.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Ronnieroadster


SO I have the later pump and pick up going in, I shouldn't worry too much about the tray missing completely???

I have built many early engine's using the same oil pan as yours where the baffle was removed with the latter oil pump then installed. Not one of the individuals who have those engine's ever experienced any issues. The 59A engines have no baffles the oil pan design is identical to yours.

Now if you decide to go off roading maybe the oil in the pan may for a split second get away from the pickup but I doubt you will ever experience anything that will cause such issues!

So overall its YOUR call. Use the latter pump it will work perfectly.
Ronnieroadster

[3W Hank]

I has the 59BA block and a 21 stud pan, those pan clear better for a std 32 wishbone ( at the starter area ) and that pan had the baffle removed.
I thought since someone fixed it after damage, it was removed.
Then I came over a pick-up and seller said it was many versions but showed a new NOS that had a plate over the lower cup. Both was that style. I dont know what year the pick up was.
Its maybe a 8AB, but I bought it.
Then I order a Melling pump ( no HV ) but at that time I had no idea of that pumps pressuare. Only thing I read no HV is needed so Melling sell 2 pumps, one no HV the other HV but they is not tell on pressuare.
-Maybe some know that and can tell ?
But I found a new NOS pump and realise the partnumer told it was a 80 pound 8AB pump.
I asked around it and did I need a NOS, no but I like the old stuff ( if possible )
Did I need 80 pound or the helical gears, no.
I read here at the Barn the 59BA block had relif spring at 50 pounds.
I has spring/ball from a late 30’s block ( the ones with thin sleeves )
So I guess with that spring a 80 pound pump will not give 80 pound in the 59BA block.
Plus hot straight 30 WT LE oil will get pressuare decent or never over 60 depending on spring set up.
Is this correct analyse so far ?
-My idea has been to make baffles that fit for that pick-up but I might not need that after read this thread, but instead I has a question.
In this engines was it made a windage tray/screen ?
( I’m mean for custom/racing aplication )

( My pick-up look at the shorter ones on this picture I found )

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 3W Hank

I has the 59BA block and a 21 stud pan, those pan clear better for a std 32 wishbone ( at the starter area ) and that pan had the baffle removed.
I thought since someone fixed it after damage, it was removed.
Then I came over a pick-up and seller said it was many versions but showed a new NOS that had a plate over the lower cup. Both was that style. I dont know what year the pick up was.
Its maybe a 8AB, but I bought it.
Then I order a Melling pump ( no HV ) but at that time I had no idea of that pumps pressuare. Only thing I read no HV is needed so Melling sell 2 pumps, one no HV the other HV but they is not tell on pressuare.
Maybe some new ?
But I found a new NOS pump and realise the partnumer told it was a 80 pound 8AB pump.
I asked around it and did I need a NOS, no but I like the old stuff ( if possible )
Did I need 80 pound or the helical gears, no.
I read here at the Barn the 59BA block had relif spring at 50 pounds.
I has spring/ball from a late 30’s block ( the ones with thin sleeves )
So I guess with that spring a 80 pound pump will not give 80 pound in the 59BA block.
Plus hot straight 30 WT LE oil will get pressuare decent or never over 60 depending on spring set up.
Is this correct analyse so far ?
-My idea has been to make baffles that fit for that pick-up but I might not need that after read this thread, but instead I has a question.
In this engines was it made a windage tray/screen ?
( I’m mean for custom/racing aplication )

( My pick-up look at the shorter ones on this picture I found )

[FlatheadTed]

This is what I am in the middle of

[3W Hank]

Intresting.
A screen and scraper the rotating might like.

[Bored&Stroked]

Something to note - it kind of depends on how early the pan is and what the pump pickup is like. On the early engines, there was no big round assembly with a screen on the end of the pickup - it was more like Flathead Ted shows - just an intake tube. Also, the oil pans were different - they had one long sump (not a big sump in the back like the later pans). So, the baffle plate probably helped keep oil on the pickup. When you put a later pump in these engines you can either make a custom pickup (as Flathead Ted is doing) and still run the original baffle plate, or you can hack up the plate to get the later pickup through it . . . or you can remove the plate entirely.

Me, I'd probably hack up the plate and cover as much of the front of the sump as possible (attempting to keep as much oil a possible in the rear of the pan) - only to help me in extreme braking (but how often do you do that?). As Ronnie noted - probably a very rare case when oil is NOT available for the pump pickup.

One thing is very important is for the pickup to be about 1/4" off the bottom of the pan! I've seen various combinations where the pickup was way off the bottom - this will give you pressure issues for sure.

If you have a steel early pan, you can always add your own side-to-side baffles to keep oil around the pickup - I do this with the later pans (most of which have the big rear sump and no baffle at all).

Pick your poison boys . . . skin the cat in a way that makes you happy!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

This is what I am in the middle of

[FlatheadTed]

I have run one in my current 34 sedan (in my video ) for about twenty five years with the 8Ba type pump and stock 34 baffle 60psi ,I fabricated a pick up that takes it from the same position as a stock 34 pick up this has worked very well so far ,but it uses a bit of oil .This current picture I have cut the front Baffle about 1/2 from the bottom ,this is to avoid trapping oil at the front ,the rear would be about 1/4 as others suggested . I dont run a gasket on the oil pump and haven't stretched the gallery spring this time. I now think as David suggests that the stock 34 pump would be fine on a new motor for next time .