The Ford Barn

CJStefan · 11-01-2023, 09:38 AM

Trying to figure out the best option. If you could, please read the entire post before replying. That way there's not a bunch of suggestions to something I've already done.

So I've had the car for 2 years and I've yet to have it on the road. Before this I daily drove a '54 Chevy for one year and a '51 Belair for six years. On the '54 I made 1" spacers for the front a-arms (they were 2 piece like a shoebox a-arm) and rear 3" drop blocks. On the '51 I ended up getting the lower a-arms with the spacers and uprights/steering arms from the guy I sold the '54 to. I also ran an s10 rear with 1.5" tall spring perches, 2" dropped leaves and the 3" blocks from my old '54. The car rode/steered perfectly.
Now that I have that out of the way, I'm trying to figure out the best plan for this shoebox to make it a reliable daily driver. So far since I've had it I put in 4" dropped leaves, 2" home made solid aluminum blocks and 1" tall spring perches on a 2wd s10 rear (yes the u-joint is about a half inch from the rear crossmember but that'll be fixed).
For the front I have Aerostar coils with the Jamco camber correction plates (and of course now Shoebox Central has a newer, better version).

The first thing I did was I bought Fatman uprights. They didn't fit worth a shit, I had to hammer a screw driver into the slots on the top and bottom to be able to get the bushings into the uprights. Once I pulled the screwdriver out they were so tight that there was no adjusting the alignment cam. On top of that I had to drill the bolt holes out on the top and bottom to fit the bolts back in because they were forced open by the bushings so the holes didn't line up anymore. If that wasn't enough, the Kingpin bushings were "reamed" but they were misaligned (not even sure how that's possible). The pin slid through one but wouldn't go through the other without hammering it in with a dead blow. $800 not well spent. Maybe I got a Friday set..?

After I pulled those off I flipped the factory uprights with new kingpins. I drilled the lower a-arm mounting holes towards the outside exactly 1" and got the camber dead on. The problem is, I don't have (or have access to) a torch to heat and bend the steering arms. I keep reading about bump steer, but not knowing how bad it actually is I don't want to put the car on the road and find out the hard way. Before I bought the Fatman uprights I bought their dropped steering arms to use with flipped factory uprights and they wouldn't fit as I was keeping the spindle itself in the factory orientation. I would've had to grind the wraparound part of the steering arm to about an eighth of an inch, not the safest idea in the world. I also looked into the Jamco steering kit, since the longer tie rods will decrease the angle but it's not made anymore.
EDIT: has anyone ever straightened the inner tie rods or flipped them side to side as opposed to lowering the steering arms? It would keep the steering effort exactly the same as stock since the arms will be the same effective length. I'm not under the car right now so I don't even know if there's clearance to be able to do that or if they need the bend for frame clearance. Im also not sure if they're forged or what and can be bent without cracking..? I need to replace mine anyway so it would be the perfect time to have it done. I'm sure a machine shop could bend them without any heat whatsoever. Does anybody have a stock height car that will measure the distance from the tie rod assembly to the frame and post that info?

That leads me to today. I'm in the process of flipping the factory uprights back over, pulling the lower plates on the a-arm and making 1" spacers. My thinking is that it's exactly like cutting 1 coil off the springs without affecting the ride, at least that's how it worked on the '54 Chevy.

So finally my question is, how will steering be affected doing it this way (with Aerostar coils, 1" spacers on the a-arm and the uprights in the original orientation with the stock steering arms just for a recap)?

Man that was a process to type all that ��

Shoebox · 11-01-2023, 03:22 PM

CJ, I DON'T have the answer to your question, but I do share your pain with the Fatman crap. 10 years ago I got the dropped spindle kit from them and it installed wonderfully and gave me the stance I wanted. Fast forward to 2022 and I got the same kit. First red flag was neither kingpin would go through both bushings, you could start with either bushing top or bottom and the kingpin would slide through, but not the other. Not because the bushing was tight, but because of misalignment. I called Fatman and was told they weren't designed for kingpins to slide in, they were to be pounded in and they would "cold form" after the spindle was moved back and forth some! Unbelievable.

Well, I have the aerostar coils and Shoebox Centrals new camber kit and it's low enough for me and aligns and drives well. Good luck with your '49.

CJStefan · 11-01-2023, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoebox

CJ, I DON'T have the answer to your question, but I do share your pain with the Jamco crap. 10 years ago I got the dropped spindle kit from them and it installed wonderfully and gave me the stance I wanted. Fast forward to 2022 and I got the same kit. First red flag was neither kingpin would go through both bushings, you could start with either bushing top or bottom and the kingpin would slide through, but not the other. Not because the bushing was tight, but because of misalignment. I called Jamco and was told they weren't designed for kingpins to slide in, they were to be pounded in and they would "cold form" after the spindle was moved back and forth some! Unbelievable.

Well, I have the aerostar coils and Shoebox Centrals new camber kit and it's low enough for me and aligns and drives well. Good luck with your '49.

It was Fatmans that I had that trouble with but I'm thinking Jamco sold the Fatman parts through their website. That's how most of the places are. Have a pic of your car with just the springs? I thought about going that route I just don't know if it'll be low enough

Shoebox · 11-01-2023, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJStefan

It was Fatmans that I had that trouble with but I'm thinking Jamco sold the Fatman parts through their website. That's how most of the places are. Have a pic of your car with just the springs? I thought about going that route I just don't know if it'll be low enough

I corrected my post as it was Fatman components. The attached pic is my '51 with 6 cyl. Currently getting a 276 cube flathead with 3 spd. w/ overdrive but will probably sit about the same.

CJStefan · 11-01-2023, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I corrected my post as it was Fatman components. The attached pic is my '51 with 6 cyl. Currently getting a 276 cube flathead with 3 spd. w/ overdrive but will probably sit about the same.

I like that color man. That's the color I wanted to paint my '51 Chevy.

Shoebox · 11-01-2023, 05:41 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CJStefan

I like that color man. That's the color I wanted to paint my '51 Chevy.

Yes, I've had two of these, both the same color. To me it kinda screams the 50's.

petehoovie · 11-01-2023, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I corrected my post as it was Fatman components. The attached pic is my '51 with 6 cyl. Currently getting a 276 cube flathead with 3 spd. w/ overdrive but will probably sit about the same.

CJStefan · 11-01-2023, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Yep I agree.

Pat/Ohio · 11-01-2023, 08:24 PM

Gentlemen, I purchased my '51 Victoria a year ago and still in the process of discovering what makes it LOW! I know it has 3" dropped spindles in the front and 3" lowering blocks in the rear. It also has power steering which was a trick (I was told). Still has the 3 spd. on the column with overdrive. Sits just the way I like it! The car was built by a street rod shop north of Dayton, OH. I have been a '32 guy most of my adult life (75 now), but I like the shoeboxes too!

Stay Safe,
Pat

petehoovie · 11-01-2023, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat/Ohio

Gentlemen, I purchased my '51 Victoria a year ago and still in the process of discovering what makes it LOW! I know it has 3" dropped spindles in the front and 3" lowering blocks in the rear. It also has power steering which was a trick (I was told). Still has the 3 spd. on the column with overdrive. Sits just the way I like it! The car was built by a street rod shop north of Dayton, OH. I have been a '32 guy most of my adult life (75 now), but I like the shoeboxes too!

Stay Safe,
Pat

Tony, NY · 11-01-2023, 09:32 PM

I did the 1" A arm spacer on a '51 Merc a long time ago. Also had lowering blocks. Worked well for me. Had the car for 10 yrs and no problems.

CJStefan · 11-01-2023, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

I did the 1" A arm spacer on a '51 Merc a long time ago. Also had lowering blocks. Worked well for me. Had the car for 10 yrs and no problems.

Did you run drop springs too? I'm not too familiar with Merc steering setup. Is it pretty much the same as Fords?

kiwi nz · 11-01-2023, 11:28 PM

Hi CJStefan, after reading your post I have done the "research" and ordered the Moog cc850 springs, along with matching spring pads and shock absorbers, from Amazon. Cost was $183.17.

I have also ordered the Shoebox camber adjustment kit.

This is for my 1950 Ford.

A lot of our roads, in NZ, are rough and winding, I think that the progressive feature will be a saviour from bottoming out with a car that is too low.
I cant imagine going as low as you want to go without only traveling on smooth concrete roads.
I personally would imagine Moog springs and the 1 inch spacers would be at the limit of good drive-ability, anything more is more about image only.

I will post photos when car is re-sprung, the car is still in USA awaiting shipping.

I look forward to photos when you make your decision.

Geoff

Tony, NY · 11-02-2023, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJStefan

Did you run drop springs too? I'm not too familiar with Merc steering setup. Is it pretty much the same as Fords?

No drop springs. Don't have a comparison of Ford and Mercury. Maybe someone will chime in.

Shoebox · 11-02-2023, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat/Ohio

Gentlemen, I purchased my '51 Victoria a year ago and still in the process of discovering what makes it LOW! I know it has 3" dropped spindles in the front and 3" lowering blocks in the rear. It also has power steering which was a trick (I was told). Still has the 3 spd. on the column with overdrive. Sits just the way I like it! The car was built by a street rod shop north of Dayton, OH. I have been a '32 guy most of my adult life (75 now), but I like the shoeboxes too!

Stay Safe,
Pat

GREAT looking car Pat!

I know you didn't build the car, but it would be interesting to know the source of the 3" dropped spindles you mention. Thanks.

CJStefan · 11-02-2023, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoebox

GREAT looking car Pat!

I know you didn't build the car, but it would be interesting to know the source of the 3" dropped spindles you mention. Thanks.

I'm pretty sure Fatmans the only one that makes them so they're most likely 2 and a 1/2 drop

wga · 11-02-2023, 08:59 AM

Rebuilding and modifying the shoebox front end is a ton of work. I did a stock rebuild, and used new springs from Eaton Detroit spring. They did not fit, sat crooked in the
frame pocket. Wish i had used the Aerostar springs.
In the end, looking back at all the work, although the parts cost is high, would have used a IFS with rack and pinion steering, disc brakes, etc.
Shoebox Central and JAMCO have new spindles. I'd check with Chris at SC for info on
the spindles. That camber kit he makes is great. Wish I had used it on a stock suspension as it adds needed camber to these suspensions.

CJStefan · 11-02-2023, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wga

Rebuilding and modifying the shoebox front end is a ton of work. I did a stock rebuild, and used new springs from Eaton Detroit spring. They did not fit, sat crooked in the
frame pocket. Wish i had used the Aerostar springs.
In the end, looking back at all the work, although the parts cost is high, would have used a IFS with rack and pinion steering, disc brakes, etc.
Shoebox Central and JAMCO have new spindles. I'd check with Chris at SC for info on
the spindles. That camber kit he makes is great. Wish I had used it on a stock suspension as it adds needed camber to these suspensions.

I already tried the dropped uprights and they fit terribly

Pat/Ohio · 11-02-2023, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoebox

GREAT looking car Pat!

I know you didn't build the car, but it would be interesting to know the source of the 3" dropped spindles you mention. Thanks.

I'll endeavor to find out more about the spindles. It has Coker wheels and radial tires. The tires are 1 size larger than OEM. I would have probably purchased the smaller OEM tire.

Pat

Pat/Ohio · 11-02-2023, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJStefan

I'm pretty sure Fatmans the only one that makes them so they're most likely 2 and a 1/2 drop

You may be right about the source and size of the spindles. It also has the larger sway bar kit installed front and rear. Corners well.

Pat

11-01-2023, 09:38 AM	#1
CJStefan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 159	Lowering the front of my '49 coupe Trying to figure out the best option. If you could, please read the entire post before replying. That way there's not a bunch of suggestions to something I've already done. So I've had the car for 2 years and I've yet to have it on the road. Before this I daily drove a '54 Chevy for one year and a '51 Belair for six years. On the '54 I made 1" spacers for the front a-arms (they were 2 piece like a shoebox a-arm) and rear 3" drop blocks. On the '51 I ended up getting the lower a-arms with the spacers and uprights/steering arms from the guy I sold the '54 to. I also ran an s10 rear with 1.5" tall spring perches, 2" dropped leaves and the 3" blocks from my old '54. The car rode/steered perfectly. Now that I have that out of the way, I'm trying to figure out the best plan for this shoebox to make it a reliable daily driver. So far since I've had it I put in 4" dropped leaves, 2" home made solid aluminum blocks and 1" tall spring perches on a 2wd s10 rear (yes the u-joint is about a half inch from the rear crossmember but that'll be fixed). For the front I have Aerostar coils with the Jamco camber correction plates (and of course now Shoebox Central has a newer, better version). The first thing I did was I bought Fatman uprights. They didn't fit worth a shit, I had to hammer a screw driver into the slots on the top and bottom to be able to get the bushings into the uprights. Once I pulled the screwdriver out they were so tight that there was no adjusting the alignment cam. On top of that I had to drill the bolt holes out on the top and bottom to fit the bolts back in because they were forced open by the bushings so the holes didn't line up anymore. If that wasn't enough, the Kingpin bushings were "reamed" but they were misaligned (not even sure how that's possible). The pin slid through one but wouldn't go through the other without hammering it in with a dead blow. $800 not well spent. Maybe I got a Friday set..? After I pulled those off I flipped the factory uprights with new kingpins. I drilled the lower a-arm mounting holes towards the outside exactly 1" and got the camber dead on. The problem is, I don't have (or have access to) a torch to heat and bend the steering arms. I keep reading about bump steer, but not knowing how bad it actually is I don't want to put the car on the road and find out the hard way. Before I bought the Fatman uprights I bought their dropped steering arms to use with flipped factory uprights and they wouldn't fit as I was keeping the spindle itself in the factory orientation. I would've had to grind the wraparound part of the steering arm to about an eighth of an inch, not the safest idea in the world. I also looked into the Jamco steering kit, since the longer tie rods will decrease the angle but it's not made anymore. EDIT: has anyone ever straightened the inner tie rods or flipped them side to side as opposed to lowering the steering arms? It would keep the steering effort exactly the same as stock since the arms will be the same effective length. I'm not under the car right now so I don't even know if there's clearance to be able to do that or if they need the bend for frame clearance. Im also not sure if they're forged or what and can be bent without cracking..? I need to replace mine anyway so it would be the perfect time to have it done. I'm sure a machine shop could bend them without any heat whatsoever. Does anybody have a stock height car that will measure the distance from the tie rod assembly to the frame and post that info? That leads me to today. I'm in the process of flipping the factory uprights back over, pulling the lower plates on the a-arm and making 1" spacers. My thinking is that it's exactly like cutting 1 coil off the springs without affecting the ride, at least that's how it worked on the '54 Chevy. So finally my question is, how will steering be affected doing it this way (with Aerostar coils, 1" spacers on the a-arm and the uprights in the original orientation with the stock steering arms just for a recap)? Man that was a process to type all that �� Last edited by CJStefan; 11-02-2023 at 08:59 AM.

11-01-2023, 03:22 PM	#2
Shoebox Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Holmen,Wisconsin Posts: 787	Re: Lowering the front of my '49 coupe CJ, I DON'T have the answer to your question, but I do share your pain with the Fatman crap. 10 years ago I got the dropped spindle kit from them and it installed wonderfully and gave me the stance I wanted. Fast forward to 2022 and I got the same kit. First red flag was neither kingpin would go through both bushings, you could start with either bushing top or bottom and the kingpin would slide through, but not the other. Not because the bushing was tight, but because of misalignment. I called Fatman and was told they weren't designed for kingpins to slide in, they were to be pounded in and they would "cold form" after the spindle was moved back and forth some! Unbelievable. Well, I have the aerostar coils and Shoebox Centrals new camber kit and it's low enough for me and aligns and drives well. Good luck with your '49. __________________ I went, I saw, I bought the T shirt 51 Ford Deluxe Tudor 32 Ford roadster 39 Mercury Towncar Last edited by Shoebox; 11-01-2023 at 03:43 PM.

11-01-2023, 09:32 PM	#11
Tony, NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Capital of Corruption , NY Posts: 811	Re: Lowering the front of my '49 coupe I did the 1" A arm spacer on a '51 Merc a long time ago. Also had lowering blocks. Worked well for me. Had the car for 10 yrs and no problems.

11-01-2023, 11:28 PM	#13
kiwi nz Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 83	Re: Lowering the front of my '49 coupe Hi CJStefan, after reading your post I have done the "research" and ordered the Moog cc850 springs, along with matching spring pads and shock absorbers, from Amazon. Cost was $183.17. I have also ordered the Shoebox camber adjustment kit. This is for my 1950 Ford. A lot of our roads, in NZ, are rough and winding, I think that the progressive feature will be a saviour from bottoming out with a car that is too low. I cant imagine going as low as you want to go without only traveling on smooth concrete roads. I personally would imagine Moog springs and the 1 inch spacers would be at the limit of good drive-ability, anything more is more about image only. I will post photos when car is re-sprung, the car is still in USA awaiting shipping. I look forward to photos when you make your decision. Geoff

11-02-2023, 08:59 AM	#17
wga Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 900	Re: Lowering the front of my '49 coupe Rebuilding and modifying the shoebox front end is a ton of work. I did a stock rebuild, and used new springs from Eaton Detroit spring. They did not fit, sat crooked in the frame pocket. Wish i had used the Aerostar springs. In the end, looking back at all the work, although the parts cost is high, would have used a IFS with rack and pinion steering, disc brakes, etc. Shoebox Central and JAMCO have new spindles. I'd check with Chris at SC for info on the spindles. That camber kit he makes is great. Wish I had used it on a stock suspension as it adds needed camber to these suspensions. __________________ Henry Ford designed the flathead without the aid of a computer.