The cylinder head replacement story begins…

[SoCalCoupe]

Car is ’41 11A 221 flathead supposedly rebuilt ~20 years ago with 5800 miles since then. 1600 of those miles in the past 2 years. I know, I don’t NEED to replace the stock heads with Eddie Meyer heads, but I want to AND I’ve already purchased the supposedly authentic vintage heads AND they would look awesome. Talked this over with my buddies in the San Diego EFV8 club.


My backup plan is to quit; sell the Eddie Meyer heads and buy chrome nut covers for the head stud nuts.


Already researched this a lot and do understand the gotchas. 1st gotcha is removing the old heads. Was hoping for a little luck but no, they’re a (female dog.) Got all the nuts off the head studs and soaked them several times with penetrating oil and gently hammered on sides a bit with a rubber mallet and a block of wood. They didn’t budge. Cranked the engine for several seconds and they didn’t budge. Bought a 1” wood chisel and plan to start working the edges.


Heard one idea I really like: jacking them off with a steel plate using bolts that screw into the spark plug holes and jack off of the head studs. The downside is it probably needs to be ¼” steel for enough stiffness and drilled by a machinist with tools good enough to go through the steel. Just have to find a good machinist willing to do such a small project and probably pay 2-3 Bengamin’s.



Another idea I don’t like so much is feeding rope into a cylinder through the spark plug and then cranking the engine by hand using the piston(s) to force the head off the block.


Another idea is building a pressure fitting to screw into the sparkplug hole(s) and using compressed air to blow the heads off. Requires some welding gear (I don’t have) to make the fitting as well as a borrowed source of compressed air. Don’t like this so much either.


The one I’m working on now is keep using the rubber mallet, the block of wood, and the penetrating oil and be patient. It’s hard to be patient when you see zero change after several days of trying.


Thoughts?

[GB SISSON]

If you really feel like getting them off, my feeling is a rubber mallet on a block of wood isn't enough concussion on the head. I say the block must be endgrain hardwood. Across the grain absorbs too much of the blow. The hammer must be a real hammer. The heads are pretty tough. They are also quite easy to come by as so many people go aftermarket and so many saved blocks turn out to be cracked. I bet I have 30 heads here that will never be used. The wood chisel is a good starter, and followed by multiple hardwood wedges. STAY away from the valves unless you are sure they are closed! All this stated, if it were ME, I'd go acorn and drive on.....

[38 coupe]

I don't try to remove heads on studs if I don't have to. As GB stated usually a heavy hammer is involved.

[flatjack9]

The steel plate is the way to go. Knock the ceramic out of a couple of spark plugs and weld some threaded rod in to the base. Drill a hole in a steel plate and crank the head up with the steel plate resting on a couple of studs. You can get it up about 1/2" or so and then can pry it the rest of the way off. Been there, done that.

[Bored&Stroked]

I've never had any real issues getting stock cast iron heads off of blocks . . . old, corroded aluminum ones, completely different story.

I typically use a big rubber drift style mallet, hard wood blocks (to beat on) and a bit of swearing - have never had an issue. Be careful trying to pry too much with any tool that pushes down on the deck surface - you can crack the block (which I once did).

[Tim Ayers]

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What size spark plugs are your heads? 18 or 14mm? Reason I ask, I have a two tools that are made from thick plate steel and have two threaded lifting rods that thread into spark plug holes and go through a hole in the plates. The plates rest on the studs.

They are used for removing Alfa Romeo 1.6 & 2.0L heads and I can't see why it wouldn't work for a flathead. I'd be happy to loan it to you.

[slowforty]

The steel plate is a good idea. The one I used had three holes in it, spaced in the top piece. It fastened into the spark plug holes. A LARGE Slide Hammer in the holes worked great. Did not need to pry up on the head.

[SoCalCoupe]

Got the heads off using the wood chisel method. Got the flat part of the chisel on top of the gasket and the beveled part facing the iron head. Took the intake off for more working room. Had soaked the studs several times over the past week with penetrating oil. Tap, tap, tap; tap, tap, tap.



One was relatively easy, the other wasn't. 45 minutes vs. 3 hours. For the hard one I able to use the chisel to get a few thousandths gap and then get a putty knife between the gasket and and head and work the blade around a bit.



When I got each of them up a bit, I used wood shims from Home Depot, meant for aligning door frames to pry them up while rocking back and forth up and down.


Three of the studs had been replaced by bolts. I believe the engine was rebuilt 20 years ago so perhaps these were studs that broke off back then. The surprise was that they were oversize, 1/2"-13 threads. The three holes in the heads had been drilled out for the bolts, they wouldn't fit in the holes using studs. Probably the studs had broken off and were drilled out and retapped to this new size.


The other surprise was the bore, I was expecting 3-1/16', it's actually 3-3/16". I'll have to get a different set of gaskets than the ones I'd already purchased.


Put the heads and intake back on to keep foreign objects out.


This week I'll get an induction heater and a set of head bolts. I'll have to research those oversize bolts a bit. I'm pretty optimistic this magic tool will work well especially since all indications are that the head studs were out 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

What size spark plugs are your heads? 18 or 14mm? Reason I ask, I have a two tools that are made from thick plate steel and have two threaded lifting rods that thread into spark plug holes and go through a hole in the plates. The plates rest on the studs.

They are used for removing Alfa Romeo 1.6 & 2.0L heads and I can't see why it wouldn't work for a flathead. I'd be happy to loan it to you.

Tim, thanks for the offer! My backup plan was to PM you and check on that tool of yours.

[Boggus Deal]

I would look at putting thread inserts in those oversized holes. Heli-Coil type inserts may work but there are ones called Timecert that is slightly bigger diameter than the others.

[KiWinUS]

Don’t count on the induction heater being magic. I’m disappointed in mine. I use my tried and proven stud removal. $16 eBay stud remover and MAC 1/2” drive impact.

[pistonbroke]

If your going to remove the studs I would use a torch and heat the stud until it has a dim red glow at its base then let it cool completely . The stud removing tool of your choice would then be applied. I learned this the hard way on our 46 Cadillac flat head and man it works. I have an old Craftsman stud extractor that grabs the stud at the base that I like but there are others that work I'm sure. Tim

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by pistonbroke

If your going to remove the studs I would use a torch and heat the stud until it has a dim red glow at its base then let it cool completely . The stud removing tool of your choice would then be applied. I learned this the hard way on our 46 Cadillac flat head and man it works. I have an old Craftsman stud extractor that grabs the stud at the base that I like but there are others that work I'm sure. Tim

Not to sound like a broken record, but I highly recommend using an induction heating type bolt buster tool for stud removal. Bolt Buster is the brand I have.

Since purchasing this tool, my torch has sit dormant and this is my new go to for stud and rusted bolt removal. It works even better than a torch and isolates the heat to the stud vs. the stud and deck surface.

[KiWinUS]

I don’t use a gas torch either. Too slow and I have probably tried every possible method. Sometimes I strip 6 engines at a time. Time is money. My method stated earlier has by far proven the best and quickest method for me. I’d a bread a stud (rarely with this method) the I drill an 1/8” hole through remains of stud and the use gas to blow stud out. Won’t even turn threads any red.

[SoCalCoupe]

This is not going well.


Both heads have been off so I'll have to replace the gaskets. Been working on stud removal, passenger side only. The studs have been in place about 20 years. Several came out pretty easily but one of them will NOT come out even after a week of penetrating oil and 4 rounds of heating to cherry red with the induction tool. Have the nice stud extractor tool but I can feel the stud twisting rather than loosening. It hasn't budged a bit. There's no working it back and forth. No budge either direction.



In principle, using an impact wrench with the hammering action seems like it might work with the stud extractor tool, but since I have no experience doing that, I'm not going to take the risk of breaking a stud


Think I'm going to retreat, reinstall the cast iron heads with new gaskets and save the thicker Eddie Meyer heads (that require longer studs) for another project.


I'm tired of playing this game, I want my car back.


Not going to install the time-serts either. Since I'm putting it back together the way it was, they're no gain. Could break off the tap in the hole make life harder rather than easier.



Spent some money on fancy tools but I think this will just be a lesson learned.

[Tim Ayers]

SoCal:

I feel your frustration. I've had good luck with a Milwaukee 3/8" impact with the stud extractor. To your point, the hammering action helped, but the 3/8ths doesn't have the same brute twisting power of the 1/2".

The Sophie's Choice here is do you try it and risk breaking it off or do you go for it and it all works out?

On another note, the current Navarro "nostalgia" heads are made to be used with stock studs. Not to spend your money, but that's an option if you really would like aluminum heads.

[Jack E/NJ]

>>>Think I'm going to retreat, reinstall the cast iron heads with new gaskets>>>


Good idea! But smear plenty of grease on them this time around. You'll be glad you did if you ever decide to remove them again. 8^)

[41Fordor]

Its a lot of work, but I just welded the nuts to the studs and unscrewed the studs from the block since I was replacing them all anyway.

[1936 ford pickup]

Hello SoCalCoupe,

As Tim Ayers mentioned above about the NAVARRO heads, I had Purchased a set from H&H because they do use the stock studs. My Block is a '46 - '48 with 3 3/16 bore. I used the Bolt Buster 1800 watt tool and removed all the hex nuts successfully. Removed the cast iron heads successfully. I tried to remove some of the studs as well with the Bolt Buster tool. Like you, I felt like the stud was about to twist and snap before coming loose. Engine is still in my truck so I need to be careful about what I do and how I do it. Decided to utilize existing studs but over the last 75 years or so and who knows what was done to this engine, some studs were not studs but all-thread rod. Some studs were shorter than stock. When I installed the NAVARRO heads some of the studs were too short for full thread engagement of the hex nuts. I took a depth gage and measured to calculate how much I need to pilot counterbore the NAVARRO heads to gain full thread engagement of the hex nuts. Good luck with your project. NOTE: photo is of NAVARRO head and new head gasket sitting flush on block and you can see some studs are too short. Photo is before pilot counterboring.

Bruce in Modesto, Ca.

[40Pickup]

A method I have found useful, after heating the stud red, I turn the engine upside down.
It helps to get the heat into the threaded part of the stud in the block, the heat wants to make its way up.
Naturally not easy if the engine is in the car!

/Jorgen

[Bored&Stroked]

I don't think I've ever attempted to remove studs with the engine in the car. It
always seems there is at least one that might just break off (or does). When they have been in there the number of years they have, sometimes they don't want to leave their home without a fight.

It can be a very exasperating and stressful experience . . . especially when you feel that aweful moment when one snaps off. Argggggggggggggh